Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5 *Arrest*

[SouthAussie]

I don't understand why they haven't checked the mushroom farms. Have we forgotten the sewing needles in strawberries? So much information missing on this case that nobody can really tell with the scarcity of facts.

Although there were 230 incidents of needles in strawberries. There has been one incident of mushroom poisoning.

It is not looking like food contamination from a regulated source.

But The Age journo seemed to think that the police would be checking the wholesalers. To rule them in or rule them out.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Very good points.

There would, of course, be toxin in the saved piece. I wonder if there was or there wasn't.

I was wondering today how a person arrives at what they think is a good story to cover up a nefarious deed. It is not as if they can bounce their ideas off somebody else, to see if there is anything they are overlooking, if there are any/many suspicious gaps.

If she's guilty, this speaks to a hurried plan executed without much due care and attention. Or, as I have said many times before, one where she no longer cares about the outcome or what consequences will be laid on her. Possible mental health issues or possible substance misuse could explain such clumsiness. Or a level of arrogance that is so mind-blowing she imagined nobody would investigate these deaths and that if they did, nobody would suspect her. If she is that arrogant, then it will be public knowledge already as that level of narcissism is hard to go unnoticed by ones peers.

I wonder if the discussions at the meal took an unexpected turn for the worse and outcomes not in her favour. Maybe she got really angry and shook up. Perhaps she already had the death cap mushrooms dried out and stored for other nefarious reasons (as the police mention something that could align with this aspect) and in a fit of temper after her life seems to be collapsing around her, she made everybody a cup of coffee and added mushroom powder to it.

Otherwise, she's been set up in a manner that is quite hard to fathom.

We know she's an intelligent and thoughtful woman so she's clever enough to make a plan that makes sense. This one makes no sense.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don't understand why they haven't checked the mushroom farms. Have we forgotten the sewing needles in strawberries? So much information missing on this case that nobody can really tell with the scarcity of facts.

I think LE will have been doing a lot of checking in the background. Also, though, I do think that LE have decided on their perpetrator right from the get go and maybe that decision could be considered a little bit premature. They could have information we aren't aware of because it's never been released, such as for example testimony from the children.

 

[kittythehare]

I don't understand why they haven't checked the mushroom farms. Have we forgotten the sewing needles in strawberries? So much information missing on this case that nobody can really tell with the scarcity of facts.

Indeed.

The BT says it best, I think

'Back to the court of public opinion, which has made jumping to conclusions an Olympic event.'

Forensic tests confirm mushrooms behind trio’s poisoning deaths

Leongatha lunch survivor Ian Wilkinson’s recollections will be vital for detectives, as they continue the long-haul investigation after tests confirm the mushrooms did it.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

 

[Salah11]

Indeed.

The BT says it best, I think

'Back to the court of public opinion, which has made jumping to conclusions an Olympic event.'

Forensic tests confirm mushrooms behind trio’s poisoning deaths

Leongatha lunch survivor Ian Wilkinson’s recollections will be vital for detectives, as they continue the long-haul investigation after tests confirm the mushrooms did it.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

It’s a lot easier to form an opinion when a person of interest openly lies and the police also question their lies for the world to hear.

 

[SouthAussie]

In the strawberry case, the police were able to trace the contamination all the way back to the berry farm and the specific person.

Although they initially were looking at Woolworths employee involvement, until contamination was popping up all over the place.

Even then they dropped their prosecution (despite DNA evidence) because they felt they wouldn't win the case.

I guess they could go to all kinds of lengths in this mushroom case, and not end up with a decisive conclusion. Even if they feel sure someone is guilty, prosecution might be tenuous.

Link

 

[Ellery84]

I don't understand why they haven't checked the mushroom farms.

I mean, button mushrooms which Erin said she purchased from Woollies, look nothing like death caps. So, that’s a bust. You can’t hide a death cap mushroom inside a button mushroom.

If she purchased some mysterious mushrooms from a specialty store, that’s fine, but none of it explains why EP didn’t get sick. She was the only person at the lunch who didn’t get sick. And she cooked the lunch. A jury may very well mull over this very fact one day.

It doesn’t really matter what she purchased, how did she ensure that the other four guests got deathly ill and she didn’t?

All jmo

 

[303gmf]

If this remark is accurate, then the investigation will continue for over a year. Sounds to me like the police are stumped in terms of eliminating reasonable doubt due to other possible food tampering scenarios. They may use surveillance and listening devices to gather more evidence. Erin is known to be a criminology enthusiast, so as a person of interest, she will be wary of such techniques and will act accordingly.

Cool!
Maybe she’s reading here among us all

 

[Neet_Mc]

Very good points.

There would, of course, be toxin in the saved piece. I wonder if there was or there wasn't.

I was wondering today how a person arrives at what they think is a good story to cover up a nefarious deed. It is not as if they can bounce their ideas off somebody else, to see if there is anything they are overlooking, if there are any/many suspicious gaps.

Personally, for such an avid real-crime enthusiast and a devotee of crime fiction, it is a quite poorly thought out cover up! Amateurish, even.

 

[Neet_Mc]

In the strawberry case, the police were able to trace the contamination all the way back to the berry farm and the specific person.

Although they initially were looking at Woolworths employee involvement, until contamination was popping up all over the place.

Even then they dropped their prosecution (despite DNA evidence) because they felt they wouldn't win the case.

I guess they could go to all kinds of lengths in this mushroom case, and not end up with a decisive conclusion. Even if they feel sure someone is guilty, prosecution might be tenuous.

Link

Doesn’t this lend itself to the whole notion of impossibility because death cap mushrooms were out of season at the time and therefore couldn’t be foraged in the local area in order to be placed in amongst EP’s store bought fresh mushrooms by either a shop employee or random member of the public?
That being the case, then the other avenue for contamination is along the supply chain from mushroom grower side of things, where potentially death caps could be grown out of season and an employee there could contaminate mushrooms prior to dispatch to retailers. This assumes that -purely by chance - only one punnet of mushrooms (assuming EP purchased a punnet) was contaminated as no other cases of poisonings have been detected. OR, even lesser chance, that EP selected planted DC mushrooms from a larger tray of mushrooms in the store. Furthermore, in the case of the latter scenario, there are no other employees along the supply chain that are likely to have noticed this going on?
Ruling out contamination of the fresh mushrooms then, potentially it was the dried ones she purports to have purchased from the Asian shop. Given the time elapsed between when EP suggests she purchased the mushrooms, you can assume
only one pack of mushrooms was contaminated as there have been no other cases of poisonings reported over an extended period of time (had there been more contaminated packs, there would have been other reported cases of poisoning). And that one contaminated packet has then been purchased by EP.
Regardless, all of these chance events may have fallen into place. But then miraculously only EPs guests have managed to eat the contaminated portions of the meal? It is just not feasible!!!
Dependent on incriminating evidence collected by investigators, i really think it is difficult to eliminate every possibly avenue of doubt in order to convict EP of murder, so I am waiting very impatiently to see what else comes of the LE investigations. In terms of plot line for a cover up of a nefarious muderous plan by EP, it really has so many holes it’s not funny!

 

[Neet_Mc]

Mo

Curious to learn, if there is any actual fungi material for forensics to examine, and if they can determine from DNA, whether that material came from DC mushrooms found in the area, or those found from other parts of Oz, or indeed from the “Asia”. If this is a potential area of research I’m sure it would take time and many experts. If the Asia market did sell dried DC as possibly suggested, they probably were not from Leongatha or close surrounding area. More likely gathered somewhere else … in Oz or Not. If they are genetically similar to those around Leongatha, the probably foraged there

They have already engaged the mycologists from the royal botanical gardens for this purpose because they can in fact determine this from the DNA

 

[al66pine]

No Source Cited?

It's interesting that John Silvester does not quote a source for the info that mushroom poisoning is confirmed as the cause of the deaths. John is a veteran crime writer.
Not an "official" police statement, I would say. Likely slipped into the public domain due to Ian's release, as you say.

@SouthAussie
If you wouldn't mind, can you --- or someone --- copy & paste the one (two?) sentence in which Silvester confirms, in this article, that DC mushrooms were CoD?
In quote marks please?
Sorry to be a pest, but it's paywalled for me)
Thx a bajillion.

 

[kittythehare]

No Source Cited?

@SouthAussie
If you wouldn't mind, can you --- or someone --- copy & paste the one (two?) sentence in which Silvester confirms, in this article, that DC mushrooms were CoD?
In quote marks please?
Sorry to be a pest, but it's paywalled for me)
Thx a bajillion.

The good news is that detailed forensic tests have come back and confirmed the cause of the three deaths is indeed mushroom poisoning. The bad news is that how the mushrooms ended up on the lunch table remains a matter of conjecture

Forensic tests confirm mushrooms behind trio’s poisoning deaths

Leongatha lunch survivor Ian Wilkinson’s recollections will be vital for detectives, as they continue the long-haul investigation after tests confirm the mushrooms did it.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

 

[LordCyrus]

it is a quite poorly thought out cover up!

Erin's account of what happened has caused mystery and uncertainty. Maybe a smart move.

 

[MsMarple]

No Source Cited?

@SouthAussie
If you wouldn't mind, can you --- or someone --- copy & paste the one (two?) sentence in which Silvester confirms, in this article, that DC mushrooms were CoD?
In quote marks please?
Sorry to be a pest, but it's paywalled for me)
Thx a bajillion.

Hi @al66pine! Unfortunately we can’t copy and paste from paywalled articles, we can only paraphrase.

In any case what I’m seeing in most of the msm articles is that the only “source” is reporter John Silvester and so far Mr. Silvester hasn’t cited his source. All he wrote was that detailed forensic tests have confirmed that the cause of death was mushroom poisoning.

What the DM Australia said was:

The forensic test development was first revealed by The Age's veteran crime journalist John Silvester on Wednesday morning.

The well-connected writer, author and podcaster wrote in a newspaper column: 'The good news is that detailed forensic tests have come back and confirmed the cause of the three deaths is indeed mushroom poisoning.
…
Victoria Police declined to comment on - or confirm - Mr Silvester's claims. 'The investigation remains ongoing.'

Forensic tests confirm mushrooms behind trio’s poisoning deaths

Leongatha lunch survivor Ian Wilkinson’s recollections will be vital for detectives, as they continue the long-haul investigation after tests confirm the mushrooms did it.

www.theage.com.au

Huge mushroom death breakthrough in Australia

Detailed forensic tests have determined that the three people who tragically passed away after eating a beef wellington pie were indeed victims of mushroom poisoning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I don’t know anything about Mr. Silvester but hopefully his source is solid. Without confirmation from LE I guess we either trust or reject his claim. Would he risk his reputation by printing a lie? IMO he wouldn’t. All MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

Doesn’t this lend itself to the whole notion of impossibility because death cap mushrooms were out of season at the time .......

RSBM

I posted an article a little while ago where there were several comments that the foraged mushroom season was long and bountiful this year, due to favourable weather conditions.

The link is in this post.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don’t know anything about Mr. Silvester but hopefully his source is solid. Without confirmation from LE I guess we either trust or reject his claim. Would he risk his reputation by printing a lie? IMO he wouldn’t. All MOO

John Silvester is an Aussie journalist and crime writer. He has co-written several books about crime in Melbourne - co-written with Andrew Rule (another journo who specialises in crime). They are fairly well known names here among crime readers.

John likely has pretty good connections in Victoria, as he has been around for a lot of years. Reputation seems solid.

 

[LordCyrus]

EP’s store bought fresh mushrooms

I may have missed something here. Did Erin say that the mushrooms bought from the Asian store were "fresh"? Those stores tend to sell imported dried product.

 

[Salah11]

I posted an article a little while ago where there were several comments that the foraged mushroom season was long and bountiful this year, due to favourable weather conditions.

The link is in this post.

She has never claimed she forged them. She purchased mushrooms from an Asian store. So nice of her to thrown an ethnic group under the bus especially one still recovering from Covid and the racism that brought.

But as we know no other groups of people have dropped dead from Death Cap poisoning so her story is full of holes.


MOO

 

[al66pine]

Mushroom Growers?

I don't understand why they haven't checked the mushroom farms. Have we forgotten the sewing needles in strawberries? So much information missing on this case that nobody can really tell with the scarcity of facts.

@ACriticalThinker The Sewing Needles in Strawberries case was quite bizarre.

"So much information missing" here???
Respectfully, we (General Public) only know what the LE has publicly RELEASED. To date, it's not been much, and we don't know what LE KNOWS.

LE "checking" w commercial growers as possible source?
Trying to imagine.
"Good morning. I'm Detective ___. Have you grown any DC's in the past __ months? Sold any to markets or individuals?"
Would any owner, manager, or employee admit to that?
How would LE try to verify? Perhaps various methods.
Is there probable cause for search warrants to be issued for numerous* growers?

Initial goal (w no arrest made) would be to find a grower who sold DC's to a mkt where she bought them, which presumably would let LE cross EP off the homicide-suspect list.

As investigation progresses perhaps toward an arrest of EP, later goal would be to gather evidence for poss. use at trial. That part of the investigation would basically be collecting evidence to try to prove a negative, but that's another post.

And if EP is charged, she may "recall" having bought them at a roadside stand at a location she does not remember, not from a typical mkt or commercial grower. Or maybe admits to having foraged the mushrooms but did not realize that they were DC's.

I'm confident that LE is undertaking an extensive investigation and has amassed volumes of info to determine all the circumstances of these deaths and illness. And whether criminal charges will be filed. imo.

imo jmo moo icbw
_______________________
* What EP Said about Source of Mushrooms; Difficulty re
Number of Mushroom Growers & Markets to Check?

EP said she was unable to remember the store at which (she said) she bought the mushrooms.
If she could pinpoint the exact store, LE's inquiries would move relatively quickly on that point, tho we/GP would not be made aware of results now.
Imo LE's inquiries of commercial growers may move at a glacial pace simply because of their sheer number. How many stores, where she could have purchased mushrooms in person, are there?
EP said, she purchased from Asian mkt in Melbourne neighborhood.
If unable to identify the "right" mkt there, LE would have to expand search area to question mkts from her home area and btwn there and Melbourne.
And then possibly growers across Australia.
How many growers supply mushrooms to ALL these mkts? IDK. Maybe dozens of mkts?