Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #5

[marlywings]

I pray this was not pre meditated

Going back a couple of pages to the above post..

I can't see any way that this could have been pre-meditated.

If it was, there's plenty of other ways to dispose of a body so that it's never found...history shows this. A couple of weights on the body & it's then thrown into Brisbane River...which isn't too far away at all. How many cases have we heard of where the body has been incinerated. Or the body is taken out to an extremely remote area??

Depending on the time when Allison was actually killed...how long would it take to dispose of Allison's body plus clean up the house (if she was killed there), clean up whichever car/s was used, clean himself up (if it's GBC).

 

[Mystery green]

Ok ... I have been watching this forum for what seems like forever... Just lurking and watching

I can't give you guys any recent information but...

I knew GBC and his family in my childhood and early teens

I can personally confirm

yes GBC did spend time in his child hood in Toowoomba

Yes his family were heavily involved in both the scouting and guiding movements in Toowoomba

I believe he went to Toowoomba Grammar School although I am not 100% sure as that was nearly 3 decades ago

As a young teenager he did speak about the Freemasons

As for what he was like back then... He was pleasant, polite and contribitive but I always found him a bit strange and distant ... Some times almost as if he spoke another language I just could not relate well with him as he presented as if he thought he was above all others, he was quite often quitely reserved and indifferent to others in a creepy kind of way...I found this the same for his sister.... His younger brother was different again more grounded and cheerful with a easier more relaxed personality

In activities that involved GBC I would often feel as if I had no place being where I was almost as if being a girl made me lesser and I felt his frustration as a bad vibe if and when I achieved or contributed anything...making him somebody I will never forget.

As for the parents they would often be involved in various events etc ... Participating and supporting but to me they were just strange ( but I will also say that I have found many white south Africans to be strange) with a demeanor of better than the rest

As for what older members of family and friends say about the BCs .... Nice enough, polite yet weird, wired differently

Ok this information may not be useful to your sleuthing but I think it may confirm some conclusions that you guys have be building about his background

As for did he do it or did he not ... Or better yet could the boy I once knew be capable of doing it and trying to get away with...my answer is just maybe...I am not prepared to judge either way having said that I suppose I am saying it is not impossible that the may have.

 

[ozazure]

here's some thoughts from catching up overnight

1 - fyi, you can set the amount of posts per page view in your settings, I have it set to the maximum and threads close about the 12 page marks versus 50ish people mention.

2 - i must say I agree with keybordem about some of the speculation ... i like to speculate along with the best of them but when people start to adlib what conversations and thought processes and series of small events may have occured vs a scenario or generalised motivation or possibility, I don't get it. We will never likely know past a general idea anyway.

3 - I am really hoping the woman who has got a lawyer is doing so for all the right reasons. I'd like to think this woman would be horrified at what's happened to Allison and is cooperating to the best of her ability, and maybe needs a lawyer for related reasons (business dealings with GBC??) vs protecting herself. If she did initially assist GBC I hope she is being brave now and dropping him RIGHT IN IT. I would say to her that people will forgive someone put in a most terrible situation, who initially does the wrong thing, but manage to turn around and make it right. If GBC is guilty, he had Allison prepared to play happy families despite what went on behind closed doors, it is understandable someone else intimately involved with him may have been similarly manipulated.

 

[Neuromancer]

Just wanted to point out something with the photos of the car in the previous thread (not sure how to copy them here); but the marks on the bonnet appear to be paint. There was a photo of the other car on the driveway (will try and find it; it's the one where the word "SHE" is marked out on the driveway, by what appears to be a high pressure spray) and there appears to be more paint on the driveway.
Not sure it's relevant to this matter, but could be a good excuse to be washing the car when the police arrived.

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=b...8&start=52&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:52,i:291

No - it's painted - the lines are too exact.

I just interpreted it as a way of marking 'his and hers' parking spots.

 

[marlywings]

By the way...I remembered this morning, one of the news stations last Friday reported that some of the forensics or toxicology reports are due back this week.

 

[Obsessor]

The couriermail article says that the kids were dropped of at a "friends" home, so I think we can rule out that they were dropped off at GBC's parents house on this information. the link has been provided previously.

I think this is much simpler than whats been suggested.

No kids at home would more than likely allow an argument to get out of hand. Now for the neighbours to hear it, I'd say that they were outside, possibly allison running/walking out of the home and getting into one of the cars....

Maybe she didnt go for a walk, but planned to go for a drive, to let off some steam.

she drives her usual route out to moggill, sayt his is down brookfield road, stops in the car park at the roundabout to gather herself, or could have been followed by GBC, or to text some friends, etc. GBC turns up in white car, they argue in the carpark, someone calls the argument into police. They both drive off together in one car, whether willingly or forecably, leaving the other car behind.

The thing the police could be looking for with regards to the roundabout is someone being dropped off to pick up the other car. I'd say one of their cars were parked at those shops.

This is where the lady that has been interviewed comes in. I doubt she would be called to assist with the dumping of the body, but probably called to assist with returning one of the vehicles, and maybe help to clean the vehicles, home etc. If GBC was in a panic, he'd call the one person close to him that isnt a family member that he has some control over.

The police turn up after having been called earlier about a DV incident at the roundabout involving a silver crv and a while 4wd. They have a light bulb moment, Gerard says he went to bed at 10pm but the call about the DV was made at about 11pm, instantly contraditing his story...they send out the search party, get the warrant becuase of his lies and the DV call.

How did they get the warrant? They use the call to the police about the DV, the matching vehicles at the residence, and GBC's contradicting story about the time he went to bed. Enough to suggest that he may get rid of evidence at the address, enough to get the warrant.

The lady that has been interviewed has probably hired a lawyer as she plans to play the "I didnt know what was going on, he jsut asked to help me return a car to his house" card.

thoughts?

Pretty sure this is my 3rd theory but I feel that I am close here.

This theory seems very credible to me. Well done.
As it is a female ex-colleague that has been interviewed extensively and has sought legal council I would put my money on her as being somewhat involved, even if at the time she didn't know she was. Family have not been interviewed, or cars searched that we know of so while disturbingly odd, I believe they are just trying to outwardly support GBC 100%, whether they fully believe he is innocent or not.

 

[ozazure]

No - it's painted - the lines are too exact.

I just interpreted it as a way of marking 'his and hers' parking spots.

Looks like chalk used on the side. The oldest daughter would be capable of that neatness.

 

[willough]

kids playing with chalk.

Too perfect to be kids with a water pressure gun. Too light to be paint.

At that time, I dont think the rains had hit, it's probably washed away by now.

 

[AllyG]

Ok ... I have been watching this forum for what seems like forever... Just lurking and watching

I can't give you guys any recent information but...

I knew GBC and his family in my childhood and early teens

I can personally confirm

yes GBC did spend time in his child hood in Toowoomba

Yes his family were heavily involved in both the scouting and guiding movements in Toowoomba

I believe he went to Toowoomba Grammar School although I am not 100% sure as that was nearly 3 decades ago

As a young teenager he did speak about the Freemasons

As for what he was like back then... He was pleasant, polite and contribitive but I always found him a bit strange and distant ... Some times almost as if he spoke another language I just could not relate well with him as he presented as if he thought he was above all others, he was quite often quitely reserved and indifferent to others in a creepy kind of way...I found this the same for his sister.... His younger brother was different again more grounded and cheerful with a easier more relaxed personality

In activities that involved GBC I would often feel as if I had no place being where I was almost as if being a girl made me lesser and I felt his frustration as a bad vibe if and when I achieved or contributed anything...making him somebody I will never forget.

As for the parents they would often be involved in various events etc ... Participating and supporting but to me they were just strange ( but I will also say that I have found many white south Africans to be strange) with a demeanor of better than the rest

As for what older members of family and friends say about the BCs .... Nice enough, polite yet weird, wired differently

Ok this information may not be useful to your sleuthing but I think it may confirm some conclusions that you guys have be building about his background

As for did he do it or did he not ... Or better yet could the boy I once knew be capable of doing it and trying to get away with...my answer is just maybe...I am not prepared to judge either way having said that I suppose I am saying it is not impossible that the may have.

Welcome And thanks for the first hand insight. Must be so strange seeing something like this surround someone you know very well.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I had mentioned that it sounded like originally, the kids were not there the Thursday night, many many threads ago now. Most people thought otherwise, but it made perfect sense that someone would look after the kids the night before - especially as she would have had to have gotten up early to get ready & head in to the conference, which would have been difficult with the girls there to get them ready & to school early that morning.

I actually had thought originally it sounded like thurs night the kids were sleeping over.

 

[Mystery green]

I believe the babe in arms to be adam ...the youngest

 

[TrueSlueth]

kids playing with chalk.

Too perfect to be kids with a water pressure gun. Too light to be paint.

At that time, I dont think the rains had hit, it's probably washed away by now.

I am going to say these these are the girls initials, and that this is how they line up to get into the car each morning.

fits the profile, bit of fun for the kids, everything in order, kids sit behind who they want to.

I rememeber when I was a kid, being one of three, we all had our designated seats in the car and we got into the car the same way every morning! funny, but thats jsut kids.

the prado has prob been reverse out of the garage and is pointing out towards the road ready to drive out.

so I dont think this is anything significant.

 

[Neuromancer]

Just as an aside are there now two appeals running for the girls, one for their education as mentioned in the Courier Mail on Saturday and now one as mentioned in the same paper today for "Counseling and ongoing support"?

I noticed that - are there 2? or has the first fund been converted? (could tell by the account #s if someone has time to check).
Wonder if that's a sign that family realise there's going to be a major reorganisation in the living arrangements of the three girls, as someone goes off to 'the big house'.

 

[willough]

I believe the babe in arms to be adam ...the youngest

You are most probably right....I thought that the little boy, was Gerard.....then thought.......Hmmmmmm, I think that is Olivia, just in boyish style clothes.

 

[possumheart]

From an Ipswich politician's blog:

Allison Baden-Clay's killer must have been a meticulous, cold-blooded individual determined her body would never be found.

And there is every chance it would have been concealed forever in the thick vines and undergrowth which line Kholo Creek near Mt Crosby in Brisbane's west.

But the killer did not count on heavy autumn rain on the weekend of 28 - 29 April 2012 which put a one metre flush in Kholo Creek washing her body downstream almost to the mouth of the creek where it enters the Brisbane River, opposite the Ipswich suburb of Karalee.

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/allison-baden-clay-body-would-never.html

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Ok ... I have been watching this forum for what seems like forever... Just lurking and watching

I can't give you guys any recent information but...

I knew GBC and his family in my childhood and early teens

I can personally confirm

yes GBC did spend time in his child hood in Toowoomba

Yes his family were heavily involved in both the scouting and guiding movements in Toowoomba

I believe he went to Toowoomba Grammar School although I am not 100% sure as that was nearly 3 decades ago

As a young teenager he did speak about the Freemasons

As for what he was like back then... He was pleasant, polite and contribitive but I always found him a bit strange and distant ... Some times almost as if he spoke another language I just could not relate well with him as he presented as if he thought he was above all others, he was quite often quitely reserved and indifferent to others in a creepy kind of way...I found this the same for his sister.... His younger brother was different again more grounded and cheerful with a easier more relaxed personality

In activities that involved GBC I would often feel as if I had no place being where I was almost as if being a girl made me lesser and I felt his frustration as a bad vibe if and when I achieved or contributed anything...making him somebody I will never forget.

As for the parents they would often be involved in various events etc ... Participating and supporting but to me they were just strange ( but I will also say that I have found many white south Africans to be strange) with a demeanor of better than the rest

As for what older members of family and friends say about the BCs .... Nice enough, polite yet weird, wired differently

Ok this information may not be useful to your sleuthing but I think it may confirm some conclusions that you guys have be building about his background

As for did he do it or did he not ... Or better yet could the boy I once knew be capable of doing it and trying to get away with...my answer is just maybe...I am not prepared to judge either way having said that I suppose I am saying it is not impossible that the may have.

Thank you. this is interesting to get another persons perspective and on background. I do agree though, I have tried not to condem/judge on guilt or not. I may have thoughts, but at the end of the day it is not fact and would HATE to have wrongly convicted someone purely because of speculation.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

long time lurker, first time poster and concerned local resident.

2 things

first.... QP can exercise a warrant on the spot to any premises/vehicle etc if they suspect that there is some criminal activity going on, or that incriminating evidence is being secreted inside. they can just arrive on your doorstep, become sus that something is going on and are automatically given powers of entry/seizure, they don't need to wait for approval or issuance of a paper warrant from a judge or senior officer. Therefore there MUST have been something sus that they saw/heard upon their arrival at the house.

second.. something that has been bothering me for a while. the photo that was released by QPS showing the family cars quite clearly shows a small green puddle of coolant underneath the engine bay of the Captiva. one would assume that it being a business vehicle, and it looks quite newish, that this vehicle would be regularly serviced either under fleet management, or new car warranty. there certainly shouldn't be coolant leaking from the radiator due to loose hoses etc. Is it possible that the radiator has been struck? It would be easily damaged by a large stump or rock hidden in the dark.

I did believe on the warrant side, that it does need to be put through to a senior officer for approval. The attendiing officers can make an assesment of the place and relay their thoughts/ findings/suspicions. BUt they need the go ahead in terms of an official warrant and seizure. Am I wrong? I had relatives in the force(since retired).

 

[angel1]

I wasn't aware until today that any speculation (ie saying someone is guilty) before it's proven can go for them in court

Apparently they can use it as that they were judged to be guilty before they were even charged/ gone through court. Did anyone else know this??

 

[marlywings]

From an Ipswich politician's blog:

Allison Baden-Clay's killer must have been a meticulous, cold-blooded individual determined her body would never be found.

And there is every chance it would have been concealed forever in the thick vines and undergrowth which line Kholo Creek near Mt Crosby in Brisbane's west.

But the killer did not count on heavy autumn rain on the weekend of 28 - 29 April 2012 which put a one metre flush in Kholo Creek washing her body downstream almost to the mouth of the creek where it enters the Brisbane River, opposite the Ipswich suburb of Karalee.

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/allison-baden-clay-body-would-never.html

Thanks for that possumheart. I think my post re pre-meditation just went out the window.

Take the words of that paulgtully one step further...with all that water in the creek, I don't think, whoever killed Allison, counted on a canoeist paddling around.

I'm betting GBC is hating that canoeist...& the police.

 

[willough]

I did believe on the warrant side, that it does need to be put through to a senior officer for approval. The attendiing officers can make an assesment of the place and relay their thoughts/ findings/suspicions. BUt they need the go ahead in terms of an official warrant and seizure. Am I wrong? I had relatives in the force(since retired).

I can say that you are definitely NOT wrong. The only time one can enter without permission or warrant and seize......................is if the crime is happening at that given moment. ie man has a gun. ie hear screams in bathroom. etc