Australia Australia - Blue Mountains, NSW, Male 995UMNSW, 50-64, @ Echo Point, Jun'04

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by reasypeasy, Feb 12, 2011.

  1. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    Unidentified Mixed Ancestry Male

    * The victim was discovered on June 4, 2004 in New South Wales, Australia
    * Estimated Date of Death: 1-6 months prior to discovery
    * Skeletal remains

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 50-64 years old
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: His teeth and left ear are distinctive features.

    Case History
    The victim was located by a hiker on June 4, 2004 at the base of Echo Point in the Blue Mountains.
    The cause of death was consistent with a fall.
    Police found $100 in cash and a packet of chewing gum at the scene.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/995umnsw.html

    I've had a little look around online and haven't found any sign of him being identified yet.
     
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  3. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    In 2007 there was a media story to publicise the release of the reconstruction.

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/284609/face-reconstruction-could-identify-mystery-man

    Face reconstruction could identify mystery man
    18:00 AEST Tue Aug 7 2007
    1285 days 11 hours 50 minutes ago

    By Dale Paget
    National Nine News

    Exclusive: He's a man without an identity and until this week he was also a man without a face.

    Now a lifelike clay sculpture based on skeletal remains has become a vital clue to a three-year mystery.

    The man has been nicknamed Echo by investigators after the place where his body was found — the base of Echo Point in the Blue Mountains.

    The remains were discovered by a hiker on June 4, 2004 and are estimated to have been there for between one and six months.

    A coroner ruled the cause of death was consistent with a fall.

    "We don't know who this man is. We don't know why he was there or how he came to be located there," Senior Constable Patrick Condon told National Nine News.

    Police found $100 in cash and a packet of chewing gum at the scene.

    Over the past three months forensic anatomist Dr Meiya Sutisno has been recreating Echo's appearance.

    It began with rebuilding his skull.

    "The facial structure was completely in tiny fragments. We had to piece it together," explained Dr Meiya Sutsino.

    Then clay was used to mould muscle tissue and skin. The finished forensic sculpture reveals what the man would have looked like before his death.

    "Now we would like to know who he is so now we can return him to his family," said Dr Sutisno.

    "The worst thing is not knowing what happened to your loved ones."

    Based on the reconstruction the man is described as being between 50 and 64 years of age. He's of mixed ancestry. His teeth and left ear are distinctive features.
     
  4. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    I think he looks a little like Alex Flores Jr. but New South Wales is a long way from Texas.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/693dmtx.html

    The Doe Network:
    Case File 693DMTX

    Alex Flores Jr.
    Missing since November 19, 1991 from Angelton, Brazoria County, Texas.
    Classification: Endangered Missing

    Vital Statistics

    * Date Of Birth: June 12, 1959
    * Age at Time of Disappearance: 32 years old
    * Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'6" (168 cm.); 200 lbs. (91 kg.)
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Black hair; brown eyes. He was practically bald at the time of his disappearance.
    * Marks, Scars: Alex has a deformed left ear and a scar on his right wrist.
    * Clothing: Alex was last seen wearing light colored shorts, a light grey T-shirt, brown work boots and a baseball cap.
    * AKA: Alejandro Flores

    Circumstances of Disappearance
    His vehicle was located in the local airport parking lot.
     
  5. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    Did you find anything saying why his teeth and ear are distinctive?
     
  6. imnotfussy

    imnotfussy Former Member

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    I don't understand why some police departments have long term unidentified body's and they fail to supply all identifying features about the John DOE. It's like they're not really seriously trying to locate the person. Why do they do this? Surely there is a reason for it, but I for one just cannot understand it.
     
  7. FigTree

    FigTree New Member

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    Here is a picture of the FACIAL RECONSTRUCTION the UID from the DOE Network...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I dont know if this UID has been found - information is a bit scarce on him.
    There is no height on DOE - though they did have skeletal remains.
    He was found with boots - but no size shoe given :(

    DOE Network:Case File 995UMNSW

    More information from Porchlight:

    At the time he was wearing:
    blue corduroy pants with a black belt,
    a bone-coloured jacket with checked lining,
    a red button-up cardigan
    a blue button-up shirt
    brown work boots
    A pink and black backpack was found nearby

    The mans clothes and backpack did not contain any identification.

    found in the pants pocket:
    A gold key with the word Diamond written on it
    and a sum of cash ($100.00)


    Anyone with information about the man is asked to contact Katoomba Police on (02) 4782 8199 or Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.
     
  8. FigTree

    FigTree New Member

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    found in the pants pocket:

    DIAMOND - is a brand of padlock & keys made in China.
    With no picture of the key its hard to tell what type of 'gold' (was it brassy gold?) key it was.
    The keys in this pic are silver - but they could come in brassy/gold.
    These look like luggage key locks - so I wonder if the key that was in his pocket was to his luggage he had left somewhere (motel/hostel/car)while sightseeing at Echo Point. Or possibly a locker / holder key where you store your luggage.

    [​IMG]

    Or was it a regular house key with the name brand imprinted on it.

    There is also a Diamond Lock & Key Business in Perth (since 1980).
     
  9. FigTree

    FigTree New Member

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    Was this ever called in?
     
  10. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    Eventually I ended up using Crimestoppers online form anonymously to suggest that law enforcement check it out. I don't think they will, the UID and the missing person are very far apart in both time and distance, and there is no sensible narrative that ties them together. Australia is very hard to get into illegally by plane, plane trips are expensive and why would an Hispanic man do that just to go work in the illegal economy here, when America has its own illegal economy and he'd be far more anonymous in America's illegal economy because America has far more Hispanics than Australia? The match looks lovely in the physical details, just the story it would require is incredibly unlikely. I posted the match here mainly in hope someone would have info about Mr Flores that would make the story more sensible... maybe a relative in Australia or some reason he would need or want to flee as far as Australia.
     
  11. FigTree

    FigTree New Member

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    Thanks so much for the reply - and great to hear you reported it too. You never know.
    I've had trouble searching for anything about this man - especially with the 'ear' and teeth as identifying.
    I wonder how they knew about the ear if it was skeletal remains. Interesting.

    Lets hope some answers come along for this man.
     
  12. bcf

    bcf Member

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  13. FigTree

    FigTree New Member

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    Hi bcf,

    When I looked at his photo, I thought he really does look similar to the reconstruction...
    But then I checked the date that the UID skeletal remains were found and it was in June 2004.

    It seems from the press reports at your link, that JF had been missing from January 2005.


    .
     
  14. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any reason whatsoever to assume Mr. Flores is an illegal. For that matter I don't see any reason to assume he's not an American citizen. Usually they mention if somebody's a foreign national. Close to half the population of the state of Texas is native-born Hispanic.

    The most likely story is that he packed a suitcase and his passport, drove to the airport, and took a tourist flight to Australia. While sightseeing, he fell off the cliff. If he's a single man, he might not have mentioned details of his vacation to anybody.

    With that left ear similarity and the fact his car was found at an airport, I say definitely submit it.

    Oh, and here's the side by side
     

    Attached Files:

  15. bcf

    bcf Member

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    Thank you for noticing it! I was so excited with the resemblance I must have mistaken the dates :facepalm:
     
  16. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    'saright, happens to all of us. I had a perfect match for Caledonia Jane Doe in New York because I read 1997 as 1979 not once but numerous times...
     
  17. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    My assumption was that because his car was found at an airport the LE investigating his disappearance would have checked departure records and come up with nothing? Even back in '91 developed countries were keeping pretty good records of departures via international airflights. And the timeline seems to indicate that if that's him, he'd have long overstayed a tourist visa. So like I said, if it was Mr Flores then chances are he was here illegally and whyever would he do that when it is so much easier to disappear into America's illegal economy? He'd fit right in, wouldn't be conspicuous at all.

    Still, if there's the slightest whiff of Australian contacts or desire to go to Australia about him that would make it much more likely he came here.
     
  18. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    The time line definitely is a drawback. If it wasn't for the car at the airport and that thing about the deformed ear I would just rule him out.

    Maybe he did like I did when I visited Australia -- fell in love with your beautiful country. I had to come home to Mr. Carbuff and the kids, but maybe he fell in love for real and decided not to go home. He might have overstayed his visa (pretty common in the US) or he might have gone through the paperwork to emigrate. Everything could be in order on the Oz side.

    No, in 1991 it's unlikely a local or regional airport in the US had any specific records about flights. They didn't ask for ID back then. He would have had to show a passport when he was boarding the international flight but not before that.

    He might not have gone directly to Australia. Maybe he decided to see the world before he died and spent years drifting around -- working on cargo boats or something like that. It was a lot easier to do that back in the 90's.

    I wonder also if the remains might be a lot older than they think.
     
  19. FigTree

    FigTree New Member

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    His clothes tell me he was well dressed - and I'd go as far as to say it was Autumn/Winter when he died. He is wearing a cardigan under his jacket - and his clothes aren't hiking apparel - more leisure tourist, but visitors/tourists to the area do wear these types of clothes if they are coming to the Mountains for the day.


    At the time he was wearing:
    blue corduroy pants with a black belt,
    a bone-coloured jacket with checked lining,
    a red button-up cardigan
    a blue button-up shirt
    brown work boots
    A pink and black backpack was found nearby

    .
     
  20. FigTree

    FigTree New Member

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    June is very cold in the Mountains - and a lot of rain.
    There is also an abundance of Wild life, which could have accelerated the body to bones/remains.
    But I am thinking - depending on where he was found - and how hidden the remains were, he could have been there more than 6 months - maybe even 12 months (from the previous winter/Spring)


     
  21. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I actually visited Echo Point when we were in Australia the first time, and walked part way down the trail. It was deceptively steep in places. We turned back because we felt like we didn't have adequate footwear to go any farther. It would be easy for someone to slip over an edge before he knew what was happening, especially in damp weather.
     

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