Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #15

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Zedx

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Because SS was a bit younger than the other victims possibly the CSK was ashamed of what he did... particularly if SS said she was younger than 18. If he was/is ashamed then he may have taken her a long way away and made sure she wasn't found. Something is different about SS...but why?

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Thats a very interesting thought. Maybe he didn't realise how old she was untill he had her in his car or had his way.
 

Zedx

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IMO The accused would need to know an area reasonably well to make the location a good choice in his/her mind for a d-site.


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Totally agree. I think he had to know these areas well. I don't think he drove around looking for somewhere, too risky.
So I ask what drew him to these areas? Maybe Eglinton due to his possible interest in fishing. But Wellard?? What is there? Except the end of the freeway. Does any one have any ideas? Besides the distance etc from his home? Its not a random place. i think if we could understand why he chose Wellard, we may have an idea where SS is. JMO
 

petedavo.au

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Totally agree. I think he had to know these areas well. I don't think he drove around looking for somewhere, too risky.
So I ask what drew him to these areas? Maybe Eglinton due to his possible interest in fishing. But Wellard?? What is there? Except the end of the freeway. Does any one have any ideas? Besides the distance etc from his home? Its not a random place. i think if we could understand why he chose Wellard, we may have an idea where SS is. JMO
It's been speculated before upon these forums that the dump sites were known to the accused because of his work at Telstra exchanges nearby.

I'd further speculate that if the accused was into 4WDriving and/or outdoor sex with his ex wife, when he was courting her, when he didn't have a place of his own, then maybe he's used these locations before, and thus the breakdown of his 1St marriages might be more significant.

But then, there's a previous post saying something about prostitutes coming forward since the arrest talking about other alleged attacks. We'd need a timeline to see if theses predate the marriage break up.


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Canning Vale

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Are serial killers always put into jails for their crimes or are they ever put into psychiatric hospitals? Do they have to be proven insane in a court of law to be put into a psych hospital setting to be kept away from public. I immediately think a serial killer would automatically be looked on as insane to have to commit the crimes they do. IMO

Annalise,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know that within Graylands MH is the Frankland unit, which houses psychiatric people who have come from a prison – I don’t know who else they house. The prisons will send a psychiatric person to Frankland, where they are assessed, trialed on various medications, monitored and once stable-minded sent for trial. Within prison the mentally ill usually socialize with the others, until they show signs of psychosis, and are then sent to Frankland unit.

Are there any other WS who can provide more information. Many thanks.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-02/graylands-hospital-to-shut-down/5935024
 

petedavo.au

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Annalise,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know that within Graylands MH is the Frankland unit, which houses psychiatric people who have come from a prison – I don’t know who else they house. The prisons will send a psychiatric person to Frankland, where they are assessed, trialed on various medications, monitored and once stable-minded sent for trial. Within prison the mentally ill usually socialize with the others, until they show signs of psychosis, and are then sent to Frankland unit.

Are there any other WS who can provide more information. Many thanks.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-02/graylands-hospital-to-shut-down/5935024
There are some PDF files that look like they'll answer the question, but my phone won't pull up links to posts, only downloads them, but there's this:

http://www.nmahsmh.health.wa.gov.au/services/statewide_sfmhs.cfm



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Canning Vale

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Petedavo,

I've skimmed through the articles and find there's many similarities - I'll read them again more thoroughly. It might be a matter of highlighting to Crime Stoppers, that a similar crime happened in the Eastern states. Perhaps he was on long-service leave. The time-frame is uncanny. Thanks for the information.

These are only my thoughts and opinion.
 

petedavo.au

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Petedavo,

I've skimmed through the articles and find there's many similarities - I'll read them again more thoroughly. It might be a matter of highlighting to Crime Stoppers, that a similar crime happened in the Eastern states. Perhaps he was on long-service leave. The time-frame is uncanny. Thanks for the information.

These are only my thoughts and opinion.
I believe the Victorian investigations are stalled due to confirmation bias.
They've thrown a million dollars reward into the pot which only indicates to me that they're focused upon locals. Much like the debacle of the bias in the Pamela Lawrence investigation that ignored the clues in Rocheford's confessional statement about being scared that his girlfriend was going to grass him over stolen jewellery he gave her.

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Spooks-R-Us

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Hey Pete
Do you know the exact coordinates of the Gleneagles and Gnangara burial sites used by the Birnies?
TIA
Spooks


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Spooks-R-Us

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Totally agree. I think he had to know these areas well. I don't think he drove around looking for somewhere, too risky.
So I ask what drew him to these areas? Maybe Eglinton due to his possible interest in fishing. But Wellard?? What is there? Except the end of the freeway. Does any one have any ideas? Besides the distance etc from his home? Its not a random place. i think if we could understand why he chose Wellard, we may have an idea where SS is. JMO

The corner of Woolcoot Rd and Miller Rd was and is used for outdoor parties, underage drinking, and bonfires. I've posted my pics of the location on previous threads showing evidence of outdoor drinking and partying.

Even back in the 80'-90's teenagers and young adults would hang out there drinking and carrying on.

I'm guessing the accused drank there when he was young, so that's why he knew of the area.

IMO the accused may have chosen the nearby d-site a few hundred metres away so whenever he possibly attended a gathering at this party spot at the end of Woolcoot Rd, he could possibly reminisce about the alleged crime. Although he was probably too old at this point to be partying there, the location may have been sentimental to him for the same reason.

Just my guesses from what I know about the area.


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Mcfishntackle

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Perhaps this was the CSK's first murder and he spent a lot more time planning on how to dispose of her body (RIP Sarah). Perhaps a pre - dug grave. Then next time decided that filling in a grave took too long & risked being seen by someone.

Maybe SS is buried with Julie Cutler


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Annalise

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Hi Mcfishintackle - thanks for your advice😊
 

Annalise

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Hi Canning Vale - thanks for the info about Graylands Frankland Unit. I'm still reading through whatever I can find on serial killers and why they kill. I can't seem to find out how it is determined whether they are sentenced to jail or psych hospital. Who determines whether a serial killer is insane or not. I think it has to do with if they were aware of what they were doing at the time. That they knew the difference between right and wrong. In which case they wouldn't be classed as insane. I'm struggling with this because to do some of the things they do they would have to have some level of mental illness. Or some type of mental condition. IMO
 

Spooks-R-Us

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Hi Canning Vale - thanks for the info about Graylands Frankland Unit. I'm still reading through whatever I can find on serial killers and why they kill. I can't seem to find out how it is determined whether they are sentenced to jail or psych hospital. Who determines whether a serial killer is insane or not. I think it has to do with if they were aware of what they were doing at the time. That they knew the difference between right and wrong. In which case they wouldn't be classed as insane. I'm struggling with this because to do some of the things they do they would have to have some level of mental illness. Or some type of mental condition. IMO

Usually the insanity plea is associated with psychosis. As you correctly state - it's basically whether the individual knows right from wrong and recognises their actions as their own.

Psychosis can occur within mainly Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder, but there's also drug or alcohol induced psychosis, and psychotic 'features' in some cases of severe depression and severe anxiety.

http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/mental-health-psychotic-disorders#1

https://medlineplus.gov/psychoticdisorders.html



"THE INSANITY DEFENCE IN WESTERNAUSTRALIASection 27 of the Criminal Code (WA) (the Code) sets outthe defence of insanity as follows:A person is not criminally responsible for an act or omission onaccount of unsoundness of mind if at the time of doing theact or making the omission he is in such a state of mentalimpairment as to deprive him of capacity to understand whathe is doing, or of capacity to control his actions, or of capacityto know that he ought not to do the act or make the omission.In broad terms the defence therefore requires that:1. the accused was mentally impaired as defined by theCode at the time of the offence; and2. the mental impairment deprived the accused of oneof three named capacities." (pg4)
http://www.lrc.justice.wa.gov.au/_files/P97-ch05.pdf
 

Spooks-R-Us

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The insanity/mental impairment plea in criminal proceedings.

"....the difference between medical and legal definitions of “insanity”. Only a selection of mental illnesses, as understood by psychiatrists and psychologists, qualify as mental illness for the criminal law.
For the insanity defence, mental illness must affect the individual in a particular way. It must affect his or her reasoning processes – his or her cognitive capacity – not “just” affect emotion or volition. This immediately rules out many genuine mental conditions that can seriously impact someone’s life."

http://theconversation.com/how-the-insanity-defence-against-a-murder-charge-works-50188

Man with schizophrenia accused of killing a homeless man

 

Spooks-R-Us

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re: Mental illnesses usually associated with the insanity plea


"Not every condition that qualifies to be the basis for an insanity defense has an equal chance of succeeding in achieving an acquittal. Those that succeed tend to be marked by either severity or evidence that they arise from a physiological, as opposed to a purely psychological, disorder. These are, for example, mental illnesses that severely affect a person’s perception of reality or, in some jurisdictions, ability to control their behavior. They include psychoses, severe depression, mania, or anxiety disorders like posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). An argument that an act of violence was the result of a traumatic brain injury causing irritability and poor impulse control is more likely to be convincing than the assertion that the violence arose from personality disturbance."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/almost-psychopath/201208/the-insanity-defense


 
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