Missing pregnant Shanann Watts and her two daughter's bodies found, husband arrested
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Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #23

Discussion in 'Serial Killers' started by bessie, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. Chicaletta

    Chicaletta New Member

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    Hakea is a male only prison. I know everyone entitled to an opinion and he hasn't been found guilty however the idea of a fan club for anyone who may have committed this crime makes me feel ill. I hope that if the person in court Wednesday did do this crime there is a guilty plea so as not to torment the families any longer.
     
  2. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a term called 'Serial Killer Groupie' or perhaps 'Creepy Coterie'! Hybristophilia is accepted as potentially lethal - some mental health experts have compared infatuation with killers to extreme forms of fanaticism.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  3. Kambo

    Kambo Active Member

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    Guilty plea would be a disaster for us. No trial means we never hear the evidence or the full story behind what happened. He has no reason to plead guilty. It’s not like he would get parole for an early guilty plea. I would be putting the twenty + year old evidence to the test. With the amount of stuff ups it shouldn’t be too hard to discredit some of it.
     
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  4. Kambo

    Kambo Active Member

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    Court listing has just been updated to say video conferencing- Hakea. So he won’t be appearing.

    Was previously listed as callover hearing.
     
  5. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Well-Known Member

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    If that was my family which was brutally abducted and murdered, I would be outraged that the alleged perpetrator was utilising video conferencing to submit a plea. Effectively 'copping out' and not facing up to the victims families to submit a plea.

    Let's just say for example that the Accused pleads guilty, then he should be held accountable and stand in front of the family, so that they can look him in the eye and hear him his admit his guilt.

    All JMO and my personal view is that we will see a 'not guilty' plea tomorrow.

    What time does the court listing say Kambo?
     
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  6. Kambo

    Kambo Active Member

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    9:15am
     
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  7. Annalise

    Annalise Well-Known Member

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    I agree Spinnaker. The families deserve to be able to face this man who allegedly killed their loved ones. Up till now he has hidden behind a camera instead of physically attending hearings. It’s almost as if he is privileged. At the last hearing a family member for each of the girls turned up in court - the accused was spared having to face them. I know he hasn’t been to trial yet and therefore has not been proven guilty but after all these years those poor families need to face him. It’s like the accused has been wrapped in cotton wool since he was arrested. No news about him. Total blackout really. JMO
     
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  8. El Gordo

    El Gordo Well-Known Member

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    I think you may find BRE is not appearing in court personally is for security reasons , or more the costs involved …. I do not think he will appear in person until it is absolutely necessary
    When he eventually appears in person it will be chaos at the court and it is better he does not appear until he has to
     
  9. El Gordo

    El Gordo Well-Known Member

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    Hi Spinnaker , could you please give me a reminder re the Yellow Toyota if possible …. I have come across a Yellow Toyota in regards to LB … 1964 Corolla … does this fit in with the car you refer to
     
  10. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Well-Known Member

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    On the 28 May 1988 a woman was abducted from Adelaide Terrace after attending the Sheraton Hotel Clouds Nightclub, she was beaten and assaulted, then dumped at the corner of leach Highway & Centenary Drive - "He heaved her into the bare metal bucket seat of a small yellow car, possibly a Toyota" (article attached).

    The Sheraton attack occurred just a few weeks before JC disappeared on the 20 June 1988 after also attending a 5 star hotel nightclub - Juliana's at the Hilton.

    It has also been reported previously on WS that a previous CSK POI drove a yellow Toyota.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
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  11. no name

    no name Well-Known Member

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    Its not his choice to decide whether he fronts up or not. Its whatever the common practice for people in custody is within our laws.

    Its a Magistrates Court committal to the Supreme Court. An indication of how he intends to plead and a tentative trial date set. He'll also have to appear in the Supreme Court for his first appearance after that and have his trial dates confirmed. There'll probably be other dates listed to attend to procedural matters and maybe some more adjournments as well, all before we hear anything other an outline of the charges and hear more than 2 words from him. Its not that big a deal.
     
  12. Chicaletta

    Chicaletta New Member

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    I could be misunderstanding your comment but how is a guilty plea a disaster if the accused did it? Isn't the important factor here that the correct person is convicted for committing a crime rather than the public being informed of details?
     
  13. Kambo

    Kambo Active Member

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    It was a tongue in cheek comment. For people in WA who have followed the case for over twenty years it would be a great relief to know the perpetrator is behind bars. But it would also be incredibly frustrating for many of those who have spent years pouring over articles looking for the smallest clue to never know the truth of what happened and how he managed to hide in plain sight for nearly 3 decades. Also what it was that tipped the police off to catch him in the end. No disrespect to the victims or families intended.
     
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  14. Chicaletta

    Chicaletta New Member

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    All good Kambo. I do hear you. I'm from and still am in WA, went to Iona and am one of those like you invested in and hopeful of a resolution to all this. I just know I could be happy to not know any of the curious details if this could just be legitimately closed so to speak.
     
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  15. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your comments no name - I was of the understanding that BRE was entering a plea tomorrow in which case, the one word 'guilty' or two words 'not guilty' IMO is a big deal.

    However, you mention that the Accused will provide an indication of how he intends to plead - does this mean he could in fact change his mind down the track and tomorrow's 'intention to plead' is not absolute?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
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  16. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Well-Known Member

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    I guess it is easier to change from 'not guilty' to 'guilty' between committal and the Supreme Court - as a guilty plea right from the start is really a formal confession.

    I'm even more convinced now we will see a 'not guilty' tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  17. no name

    no name Well-Known Member

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    I'll can try to simplify the court process as best I can for anyone it may benefit, but there are several ways a case involving so many charges can be dealt with in the court process. This may be long, so my apologies.

    To answer your question first, yes, absolutely you can change a plea of not guilty to guilty at any stage of the process before the court has delivered a verdict (jury or judge alone). You can change mid way through a trial if you want to. Why someone is less likely to do that if charged with an offence where the penalty has a mandatory term is another matter I wont go into, but its normally the same reason people facing a long mandatory sentence don't tend to plead guilty. Theres no incentive to do so. As you said, "its a formal confession" and as Kambo said "test the evidence". People facing the rest of their life in jail dont usually lay down and cop it sweet regardless if they're guilty or not. Hence IMO, theres a general expectation that a trial is forthcoming.

    Think of the basic court process like this - We have a 3 tier court structure, Magistrates, District & Supreme. You can only appear to face a charge in a court that has the authority to hear the charge, determine an outcome & punish you if need be.The seriousness of the charges you face dictates which court you have to have your case moved up to.

    All charges begin in our lowest court which is Magistrates Court & hears summary offences ie minor charges. Thats where BRE first appeared on 23/12/16 & was remanded in custody to appear in the Stirling Gardens Magistrate Court. This court is a bit like the secretary you have to get past before you can see the big boss. Its a procedural section of the Supreme Court thats there to make sure you're somewhat prepared to talk to the boss when you get there & it also ensures they dont spend all day getting bogged rescheduling appointments ie. adjourning cases as BRE has had happen several times already.

    The Supreme Court is the only court that is authorised to deal with murder charges but in order for a case to proceed there, the charges must officially be transferred to that court. You usually have to let the secretary know first by indicating your intention to plead and then the official process in the higher court can begin. Thats whats expected tomorrow, his charges to officially be "committed" to the Supreme Court.

    Then the prosecution must file the charges with that court & all documents from either side need to be "disclosed" to the court within a certain time. He will then have to make his "first appearance" in the Supreme Court where all parties & the court will make sure everyone is happy with the tentative date the (secretary) set in the Magistrates Court, and it'll be confirmed officially.

    The court process is long, complicated and expensive & theres procedures to follow and potential issues to sort out before any trial can begin. For example, one side may argue they dont think some of the evidence the other side wants to rely on is admissible so they have to go into court before the trial to discuss it and the judge will decide whether its allowed to be used or not. Theres numerous things that can crop up before a trial is given the final green light to go ahead on the scheduled day and depending on whether it can all be sorted out beforehand, depends if dates needs to be changed or not. Some cases need a lot of help and have conferences and hearings before the trial & dates get changed several times & some proceed as planned. Other charges can be added or dropped at any time too.

    He can also decide to plead guilty to some charges and not to others. Some of his other charges aren't as serious as murder and would usually be heard in the District Court if that was all he faced. However, the usual process is that all charges regardless of seriousness go with you into the highest court you have to appear in. Whether that court ends up hearing all the charges and deciding an outcome or whether they end up being split up and some lesser charges get sent back down to the District Court to be determined depends on the case in question, how someone pleads, how the evidence relates to which charge or the charges rely on the same evidence. Or for any other reason the court decides they're going to split them.
    For example, if he pleads guilty to murder and not guilty to the others, the lesser charges could be sent back to District Court for trial after the Supreme Court has sentenced him. Or he could plead guilty to the other charges and not guilty to murder & if he was found not guilty for the murders, he may be sent down to District court for sentencing. (both very unlikely situations but for ease of understanding the process).

    Supreme Court has the authority to hear them all though & the the most serious charges in a higher court will always be determined first regardless. If they split any for any reason, he'll face those after the Supreme Court process is complete, otherwise they'll all be heard together.

    For a trial thats expected to be so long, they'll be doing their best to stick to the program, but until were close to the day the trial is due to start and it appears to be going ahead, dont expect anything to happen as planned or stress if it doesnt.

    So, I agree that it IS important whether he pleads guilty or not, in the scope of the legal process & the fact that it is still at such an early stage , until its transferred into a court that has the jurisdiction to be able to determine the charge its fairly irrelevant whether hes actually in the court room or appears via video link. The family will be able to see him & hear the case when hes in the courtroom facing them regardless.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  18. no name

    no name Well-Known Member

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    Theres also another incident involving a small yellow car that Im sure someone will help us out with the details I dont have at hand.
    My memory could be sketchy!
    Attempted abduction. Child? Balga? Rescued? by a woman driving a little yellow car. Anyone?
     
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  19. LennyAustralia

    LennyAustralia New Member

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    Looks like 9:15 is the scheduled time.
     

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  20. Kambo

    Kambo Active Member

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018

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