Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #4

[Bartholemeus]

I wouldn't know a car from horse float but those prices seem off. Assuming the VS is the 1996 release we are talking about, it would be a lot more. I recall specifically looking for a car in 1996 in Perth and a used Ford Falcon was $22k. Maybe 2 years old and 50km on the clock. I also looked at new 4cyl cars. All your Nissan Pulsar and Hyundai Excels were "flying out the door for $19,990".

$11k for a Commodore from an auction, you're talking a 4 year old fleet car which usually my extremely limited knowledge of cars would be a VR maybe.

For non-Australians, a Commodore is 6 cylinder family car favoured by families, 30+ year old average Joes, and bogans. New entry level 1300cc cars were $14k, standard 4-cylinder (say a 1600cc) cars were about $20k and your 6 cylinder started at about $30k and went up to $50k depending on engine size and add-ons. The your luxury car market started at maybe $50k (BMW etc).

 

[papertrail]

:seeya: Billy, your t-shirt pic needs a link.

Thank you!

Bessie, the t-shirt snip was taken from the Yahoo article I posted (originally) re the SS article over last weekend.

 

[papertrail]

I wouldn't know a car from horse float but those prices seem off. Assuming the VS is the 1996 release we are talking about, it would be a lot more. I recall specifically looking for a car in 1996 in Perth and a used Ford Falcon was $22k. Maybe 2 years old and 50km on the clock. I also looked at new 4cyl cars. All your Nissan Pulsar and Hyundai Excels were "flying out the door for $19,990".

$11k for a Commodore from an auction, you're talking a 4 year old fleet car which usually my extremely limited knowledge of cars would be a VR maybe.

For non-Australians, a Commodore is 6 cylinder family car favoured by families, 30+ year old average Joes, and bogans. New entry level 1300cc cars were $14k, standard 4-cylinder (say a 1600cc) cars were about $20k and your 6 cylinder started at about $30k and went up to $50k depending on engine size and add-ons. The your luxury car market started at maybe $50k (BMW etc).

This link will take you to some great historical info on Holdens -- unfortunately no prices. Interesting to know that the Perkins / Ingall team won the Bathhurst race in 1997 driving a VS Commodore !



http://www.classicholdencars.com/holden-cars/

 

[Parkie]

What I say is correct. We would be bidding against car dealers as well. Just had to outbid them. Some would go slightly more.

 

[papertrail]

Hi ya Sutton. I thought I`d post re the Commodore VS series 1 or 2. As stated I looked at buying one in 1995 approx. and that is the truth too. It was at an Auction house 100 m down the road from where I once worked in Ewing St, Bentley. Right across the road from where another Car Auction mob is located today. It was a Holden Commodore Series 2 white Telstra Executive SEDAN. I used a series of 5 ticks to note what was the best car to buy. It was just my thing at the time. It was low kms, & the best nick one that I liked. I had given it 5 ticks to help me choose one. At the time they were going from @ $11000 to $12000. I know previously I said it was higher but that was incorrect as now I have remembered. I should have bought that Commodore from them as it was cheap. But I didn`t. Now Sutton you mentioned maybe the CSK contacted the Police? Well I have asked the SCS & they said he has not contacted them. Nor has he sent them anything. Nor were items from one girl left at another as someone on here eluded to.

The series 2 was not released until 1996.

 

[papertrail]

Here's a link to the NRMA's (a national motoring association) write up re the VS Holden Commodore Series 1 - include costs as at 1995. Also has a bit of detail about the upholstery upgrade for Acclaim and Executive models -- "Executive models get upgraded interior trim with less vinyl and more cloth."

I am of the opinion the vehicle referred to in the Postnewspaper article is an Acclaim as I have posted previously, I had done a fair bit of looking around to see what I could find, and the Acclaim model was the only model that had different upholstery covering, including the fabric pattern was totally different than any other model ie Berlina, Executive, Calais etc.

One thing extra the VS series had was "... and all models have mobile phone wiring built in." To me this is incredibly important and may show the employment position of the perp. Someone whose work situation was mobile. Mobile phones were just making it into the market in 95 / 96 so the owner of the VS series commodore. Don't think it's going to be a tradie (plumber, electrician etc) but someone professionally based -- car salesman, real estate, medical profession, legal, accountant / financial. Any ideas on what the mobile phone wiring consisted of -- was it for charging only or using phone in vehicle to contact another vehicle in fleet perhaps ?

I personally don't consider the cost of the vehicle relative because the perp /s could have owned one, could be his parents' vehicle, could be employers' vehicle, a fleet vehicle, borrowed vehicle or used without owners' consent.

http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring-services/reviews/car-reviews/holden/commodore-vs.htm

 

[papertrail]

The attached data is taken from Yearbook Australia (link below) and shows car phone uptake for 1996.

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=lsXzFRk4qNAC&pg=PA622&lpg=PA622&dq=mobile+phone+uptake+australia+1995&source=bl&ots=EN1nWxIeo-&sig=1o7nFRB4bpiMOmB3v3adEA-M84U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjalvikrMbKAhWnE6YKHfC5AmUQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=mobile%20phone%20uptake%20australia%201995&f=false

 

[J35]

I posted all the NRMA prices back in thread three!! Including which models were available in stationwagon......when the car discussion was still relevant

And before it gets rehashed again
I also posted pics of the seat trims from the stationwagon models of Series 1 vs Series 2-- back in thread three... around the 70 page mark
We also discussed (those that participated) that White Stationwagons do not have a unique trim- they share the same trim with coloured wagons of the same model + series


This is why CSK needs its own forum or subforum,, so that you can have dedicated threads/subthread for discussion on Suspects, Car, Method of abduction, Dumpsite/ possible related attacks etc so that its all in one place and easy to follow... otherwise this thread just goes around in circles

 

[J35]

I had done a fair bit of looking around to see what I could find, and the Acclaim model was the only model that had different upholstery covering, including the fabric pattern was totally different than any other model ie Berlina, Executive, Calais etc.

Really....... how do you explain the following

All 95 Series 1 Commodores in order: Acclaim ; Berlina; Executive ; with different seat trim !!

 

[J35]

P.s. we are all still waiting on this dot point spreadsheet you have on LW that you said you would post last month, as well as all the other publications to back up some of your claims in previous posts... and if you need an example, Sutton has asked you to provide evidence about RZ and his procedure that you claimed he had.

 

[papertrail]

The curious 'Santa Fe night in Chile' shirt is here:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/30639442/how-sarah-vanished-into-a-january-night/

The article says that within a few days of being reported missing, police were treating Sarah's case as a homicide. She was very attached to and considerate of her family, but that seems premature.

Police bumble their way through numerous aspects of the investigation, but are light-years ahead of the game in linking and categorizing Sarah and Jane's (Post #1101) cases. It took 13 years to consider and connect Karrakatta--despite the views of Dick Ault (one of the FBI's most respected), other detectives, and Karrakatta herself.

Just a wild idea, but I wonder if police had an early communication from the CSK that has never been released?

I posted something yesterday which was a snippit of a Caporn interview from 1997 in which he had indicated that there was a connection to an event prior to SS's disappearance but he had refused to release any further information. That will be the 1995 rape for sure.

Don't forget Dick Ault was hired by the Postnewspapers owner / editor Bret Christian not WA police.

 

[papertrail]

P.s. we are all still waiting on this dot point spreadsheet you have on LW that you said you would post last month, as well as all the other publications to back up some of your claims in previous posts... and if you need an example, Sutton has asked you to provide evidence about RZ and his procedure that you claimed he had.

patience patience patience. And I'm getting a little tired of posting a hell of a lot of valuable stuff that deserves some sort of discussion, and what discussion do I get ZILCH so I don't know if I will bother

 

[papertrail]

Really....... how do you explain the following

All 95 Series 1 Commodores in order: Acclaim ; Berlina; Executive ; with different seat trim !!

What's your point ? Did you bother to do a bit of comparison between Acclaim, Berlina, Executive (etc) for 1994 and 1996 whilst you were at it...no I bet you didn't. You will see that it is the Acclaim that had the totally different patterned fabric for 1995. Berlina and Executives have a very similar fabric pattern for 94 and 96, whereas the 95 Acclaim had a totally different fabric pattern than it did for 94 or 96.

 

[papertrail]

patience patience patience. And I'm getting a little tired of posting a hell of a lot of valuable stuff that deserves some sort of discussion, and what discussion do I get ZILCH so I don't know if I will bother

and what Sutton required has been supplied. Information will not be posted publicly

 

[Bartholemeus]

We also discussed (those that participated) that White Stationwagons do not have a unique trim- they share the same trim with coloured wagons of the same model + series

The particular seat trim fabric was used only on the Series 1 Holden VS, launched in April 1995

So why does BC have his information wrong? Without reading the thread (because any talk about cars will send me to sleep), I'm pretty confident fellow posters would have found pictures or literature confirming that the white VS 1 models did not have a unique trim.

So why the incorrect information?

 

[Bartholemeus]

patience patience patience. And I'm getting a little tired of posting a hell of a lot of valuable stuff that deserves some sort of discussion, and what discussion do I get ZILCH so I don't know if I will bother

A couple of things;

1. The newspaper articles you post are great. But some feel you have a track record of passing off some theories as fact so ask you to confirm with a source.

2. Typical of this thread is that people scan over info, particularly on new suspects or suspects outside the square (Morey, Dixie, Moni Leucas) and file it in the "not close enough to spend a heap of time on, but won't rule out and will have a closer look if more information leads down that path" mental folder. People do appreciate this info (unless it's one of the nutters saying it's an ex-BF or police have told them who the CSK is) but won't get involved in discussion until something more compelling emerges.


It's all good. Just keep posting. Stick to the facts, make sure you're clear when theorising and leave an bull**** at the door.

 

[MyLeftFoot]

I realise this is off the current discussion of vehicle specifics...but still relevant.

Posted by aim2solve in thread # 3

'The licenced establishment which is located on ST QUENTIN was CLUB BAY VIEW in 1995. In 1999, it split into CLUB BAY VIEW and THE AVENUE. The south side entrance became the main entrance for club bay view. The St Quentin's entrance became THE AVENUE entrance.
Prof. David Canter has deduced that serial killers who abduct from a concentrated area are more often marauders [Predators who travel from other home locations but that have a strong significant association with the abduction area]. What sort of professionals would work in Claremont but live a distance of 5 to 10 Kilometers away? '


This is the first time I came across the sub category of 'Marauders' (Thanks aim2solve)
Wanting to know more, I came across this site on Geographical Profiling which I thought was rather interesting and discusses (among other things) Marauders v. Commuters

Marauders v. Commuters
Serial offenders can be divided broadly into two categories: marauders and commuters. Marauders are offenders who commit crimes outward from their anchor points as outlined in the pattern discussed above.

Commuters are offenders who travel outside of their normal activity and awareness spaces to commit crimes. This is most likely done in an attempt to leave no connection between their offense locations and residences.

Note:*Geographic profiling will not identify the anchor point of a commuter. Investigators should consider the possibility of a commuter when a geographic profile puts major highway exits near the highest points of the probability map.

http://www.bairanalytics.com/software/atacraids/geographic-profile/

 

[papertrail]

So why does BC have his information wrong? Without reading the thread (because any talk about cars will send me to sleep), I'm pretty confident fellow posters would have found pictures or literature confirming that the white VS 1 models did not have a unique trim.

So why the incorrect information?

the trim doesn't have to be relevant only to the colour white.

 

[CSK?]

Hi guys, I'm new as a member of websleuths community but have been actively reading the CSK forums for the last few years both here and else where.

Just some points I would like to clarify that I see mentioned quite a lot.

1)Just because a suspect has been ruled out means absolutely nothing, Ted Bundy, Gary Ridgeway, The Yorkshire ripper & Paul Bernado (Ken & Barbie killers) just to name a few were all ruled out in the investigations of their crimes, only to be nabbed years later.

2) There is a clear progression pattern with serial killers, from stalking, to rape, to killing. Just because one may kill but not sexually assault a victim has no representation on the crimes he/she committed in the early stages of their progression, a rapist might go on to murder without sexual assault, this is because the murder/inflicting fear itself is where the killer gains the sexual arousal.

3) Assuming the victims were familiar with the killer is a reasonable assumption but not rock solid, Ted Bundy was able to lure intelligent young woman into his vehicle with nothing more than an arm cast and pure charm. Another case I read, unsure right now of the name simply pulled up beside his victims, flashed a knife and told them to get into his car which 6 of 7 woman did.

LW still remains my strongest suspect of all the known suspects there is however there is one point that leads me to believe it wasn't him. There is absolutely no way he would just stop, even if he knew he was under surveillance. To kill in this fashion is more than a simple wanting to do so, it is a compulsion, I could see him going 5 or 10 years without a kill, but 20 is getting beyond reasonable, even less so without trophies which is something most serial killers use to relive the fantasy during the cooling down periods. (I assume after so many police searches that if it was him some trophies would have been found).

Now with that said I have a question for the community...

Has anyone looked into similar murders across Australia or New Zealand in the time frame after these murders took place? I highly doubt that killer simply stopped, aside from being in jail or dead it is almost a guarantee that he would continue to kill, the time frames between murders might change, the methods of murder might change and the locations might change, but not the compulsion to kill.

EDITED*
Second question, At the time of the murders were there any Holden Manufacturers or Holden accessory manufacturers in and around the Perth area? I tried a google search but couldn't find much so hoping a local could shed light on that.

 

[papertrail]

A couple of things;

1. The newspaper articles you post are great. But some feel you have a track record of passing off some theories as fact so ask you to confirm with a source.

2. Typical of this thread is that people scan over info, particularly on new suspects or suspects outside the square (Morey, Dixie, Moni Leucas) and file it in the "not close enough to spend a heap of time on, but won't rule out and will have a closer look if more information leads down that path" mental folder. People do appreciate this info (unless it's one of the nutters saying it's an ex-BF or police have told them who the CSK is) but won't get involved in discussion until something more compelling emerges.


It's all good. Just keep posting. Stick to the facts, make sure you're clear when theorising and leave an bull**** at the door.

I do not post ********....I would not bother and waste my time. Heed what your advice is by way of what you post.