Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #14

Discussion in 'Serial Killers' started by bessie, Jan 2, 2017.

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  1. meticulously

    meticulously Former smartphone blogger

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    Hi Innerchild , you have been a big inspiration for my research here and over the last months ive compiled information about the ocean & weather to try to help figure out the JC car mystery .
    This evidence is fairly compelling.
    I dont expect everyone to understand the information here about wave climate but i can post more specified info and detail the dates 20-22 further.



    Here is some evidence that shows a large wave event at cottesloe beach that supports the theory that the car went off the groyne & waves battered it before it was seen / found by a swimmer .

    Quote from *researcher;
    " it was a stormy period ! i think currents definitely would have been north to south… and big waves too"
    Initial reply from Physical oceanographer .

    Wind directions from 15th june to 26th june 1988 .
    http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/59244c7143a3f/ECMWF_wind_pressure_june_15-26_1988-2 (1).pdf
    wind direction and strength on the days 15-26 june .

    And more;
    "the wave model data for that time period ; 2 big swell events , up to 7 m at Cape Naturaliste (blue) and 6 m at Rottnest Island (white).
    red is cottesloe, but that is not properly resolved in the model.
    Green is Albany.

    Swell was quite west as expected, around 250 degrees. peak Periods between 12 and 17 seconds (1/frequency)" Quote oceanographer *



    Cottesloe beach geographical location is exposed to swells from this direction ie ; Swell angle of northwest :

    Quote from physical oceanographer
    On the swells direction :
    " around 287.5, degrees then jumps/spikes to 319 and 343 degrees or so ." Quote.

    Wave data showing large wave heights 4metres on the 20th .
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Extremely large wave heights shown on graph - dates are at the bottom of page .

    I think the car could have been hidden beneath the waves, in the murky dirty colored water with waves breaking . the water could remain murky inshore for a few days after the swell event .
    This also provides evidence of how the car could be smashed, against the groyne repeatedly for hours perhaps.
    all from the waves power .


    Also of note ;
    It was stormy wild wet winter weather conditions before the 21st and after the 23rd which must have made searching very difficult . Not suprisingly the car was found during the (only) finest day of all the period 15th-28th june 1988.

    These are some of the sources of this information.

    This is the source of *researchers information.
    http://www.ecmwf.int/en/research/climate-reanalysis/era-interim
    * Doctor of Physical Oceanography .
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_oceanography

    http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/591c6c0...urnal_of_the_Royal_Meteorological_Society.pdf

    Photo showing rocks and reef in close proximity to groyne that could cause the battered car if it was dumped off the groyne
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Second paragraph:
    "The roof of the medium size vehicle, a Fiat 123 (some model number) about 14? years old, had been caved in by being pounded against rocks on Cottesloe groyne."
    [​IMG]

    .
     


  2. Spooks-R-Us

    Spooks-R-Us New Member

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    RSBM

    FYI - I never stated the line theory was simply just a case of "two lines intersecting".

    I simply made an observation that IMO the intersecting line when extended reached a place of possible interest.



    ............................................
    Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

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  3. Spooks-R-Us

    Spooks-R-Us New Member

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    In the star pattern, what point/location are the bases for the outer points of the star at approximately 1pm, 4pm, and 8pm???
    Why did u choose these points?


    ............................................
    Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
     
  4. Innerchild

    Innerchild Active Member

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    I was just playing with straight lines knowing Cott, JR and CG and trying to make angles inside the star points fairly equal.
    I think I got the point around 1pm wrong and would try again with it going through the double circle at Red Hill auditorium (this is the straight line from Cott beach).
    The one at 4 just a guess with straight lines and angles with the line from Cott beach meetng the line from CG.=. Again 8pm just playing, extending the line at Cott beach, doesn't mean anything. I think that probably the point of the star in the ocean should be better between 9 and 10pm. Just playing around and it any ideas please suggest. Almost looks like the star trek monogram??
     
  5. Spooks-R-Us

    Spooks-R-Us New Member

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    Ok that makes more sense if you're just fiddling around with the lines


    ............................................
    Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
     
  6. meticulously

    meticulously Former smartphone blogger

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    The edit timer was up before finishing my last post . Such is using a smartphone to make elaborate posts .
    I made an error with a graph so here it is again with a easier to read layout .

    [​IMG]

    In Simple terms ,
    These are extreme waves heights & power ( 17 second period ) for cottesloe beach standards .

    Quote:
    "If the waves in a wave train have sufficient energy (normally a period equal to or greater than 15 seconds), they can continue with little loss of size or energy, for thousands of miles or until they reach land and break. That's because at these periods (or wavelength) all the energy is traveling deep under the oceans surface, and there's little that can stop it (except for shallow water".

    "Wave speed. The speed of a swell or a wave train can be calculated by multiplying the swell period times 1.5. For example, a swell or a wave train with a period of 20 seconds will be traveling at 30 knots in deep water. (Knots are nautical miles per hour. One knot equals 1.2 mph on land.)
    A swell with a period of 10 seconds will travel at 15 knots.
    The individual waves actually move twice as fast as the wave train or the swell, and a single wave's speed can be calculated by multiplying the swell period times three. So individual waves with a period of 20 seconds travel at 60 knots in deep water."

    http://www.surfline.com/surfology/surfology_forecast2.cfm


    For Rottnest Island to recieve 6 metres is a very remarkable event that doesn't happen often, once a year maybe .
    The 2 spikes in the graph are in the days preceeding JC /Car mystery .

    This would have diminished the number of Fisherman (potential witnesses) & swimmers who may have been in the area on the 20th which means less chance of beachgoers / witnesses as the storms & waves were relentless in days leading up to the 20/21 june.

    With better conditions for fishing or early morning swimming on the 21st and 22nd there may have been more potential witnesses overnight fishing or dawn (swimming).
    I cant see why it could not have happened hours after JC disappeared, say 3-5 am .


    Chart of Rottnest island, metropolitan beaches & compass.
    Arrows showing wave direction
    [​IMG]

    .
     
  7. Spooks-R-Us

    Spooks-R-Us New Member

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    Impressive work Meticulously

    I get a bit swamped looking at meteorological data - but certainly looks like big waves could've flattened BLF's roof into a pancake!


    ............................................
    Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
     
  8. Innerchild

    Innerchild Active Member

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    Hi met,
    I really appreciate all the research you have done with the weather and wave patterns. The swell at Rotto may have a bearing at Cott, the days you quote with 6m swells was the 16th and 18th June, when the car went in the water on the 22nd June. Swells of Rotto were around 3 metres then according to your data. You do get quite large swells at Rotto but that is not breaking waves and I would like to see what conditions at Cott are like now when there is the same forecast for Rotto, that would give an interesting comparison, without photo evidence of the sea at the time.I have been told to get "He who waits" video but still have only been able to access the transcript and not the video. I do believe the article says the car was pounded on the rocks and then the same article says it was found well away from the groyne. It would have been around mid beach where you have circled if the other article was correct. How does a car supposedly pounded against the rocks move away against wind, current and waves to end up there? One of the final articles with Det Sgt Katich the lead investigator also said it could not have traveled off the groyne as there was a sand build up on the path and a one metre drop if it tried to go straight off the driveway. In this statement it was reiterated that the lights were on, back doors shut and locked and all windows up except for the drivers window. Because of these statements I believe they were coming to the conclusion that the damage to the car was so severe it could not be explained in any logical way. For the damage to the car to be caused by rocks it would have had to be lifted up fully into the air one metre and dropped onto the rocks around 30 times. The car could have been dropped off a 300 ft cliff and landed onto it's roof and it would not have caused the damage to the roof, and I can only say that with confidence as there were reliable measurable controls accidents and damage to compare with. This was not a conclusion I expected to arrive at and doesn't seem logical but to me reinforces the importance of the abduction of JC and the realisation that the killer here was a small cog in a big wheel.
     
  9. meticulously

    meticulously Former smartphone blogger

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    Quote from Innerchild ;
    "The swell at Rotto may have a bearing at Cott, the days you quote with 6m swells was the 16th and 18th June, when the car went in the water on the 22nd June.
    Swells of Rotto were around 3 metres then according to your data.
    You do get quite large swells at Rotto but that is not breaking waves..." rsbm
    ------------------------------------
    Look closely at graph, the peak Spikes are 17th and 19th .
    The Rottnest buoy is to the west of Rottnest island , that means theres a delay in time until the waves measured by the buoy actually reach cottesloe beach , at least a few hours .

    20-6-88,
    At 12.30am JC was last seen , wave size was almost 4 metres still at rottnest buoy and this would be arriving at cott beach within hours due to a time travel delay .
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    This picture of waves at Cottesloe beach gives some idea how car could have been moved around somewhat between groyne , reef & pylon .
    [​IMG]

    Random youtube footage of cottesloe beach showing fairly strong power of waves, surges, currents and winds .
    https://youtu.be/MaAYB82qh0I

    Cars getting hit by waves video clip . (Not sure if the windows are up or not, it will float better if sealed )
    https://youtu.be/ROJbaCYUu0I
    .
     
  10. meticulously

    meticulously Former smartphone blogger

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    Re JC car mystery ;
    how the car can move around if waves are powerful enough ;
    Its quite apparent to me after watching many youtube clips of cottesloe beach showing Waves, Storms and Surfers (theres many u-tube links, wont put all here) that there is a high rip current potential due to the shape of cott beach and groyne.
    The shape of beach is curved and will trap water from escaping during swell events .
    [​IMG]
    Pictures here show that cottesloe beach is highly likely to be prone to currents during swell events, especially due to the groyne and curve of shoreline.
    i think the rip current would flow out between the groyne and the pylon as ive marked with arrows .

    [​IMG] *not cott beach
    [​IMG] *not cott beach
    [​IMG]
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_current

    *google source picture

    .
     
  11. meticulously

    meticulously Former smartphone blogger

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    Thats correct from what i can see too Spooks [emoji102]

    The detailed information about the weather was sourced by a doctor of physical oceanography . Whom i made a special request to about this JC case.

    Have been compiling info about the jc & car mystery for a few months because the ocean weather at the time is vital to know because it could help explain many things imo .

    Knowing a bit more weather details now i think the 20th is a high possibility for disposal time .
    Does anyone think it is possible ?
    ( #Innerchild says it was the 22nd )


    One question to consider ,
    did this car go in during the darkness on the 20th , 21st or 22nd ?

    Thoughts please

    https://youtu.be/fymjbkGSta8
    .
     
  12. petedavo.au

    petedavo.au Well-Known Member

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    I've been racking my brain, trying to find other possible ways that the car could end up damaged, because someone on here reckoned the ocean would be flat, although I always remembered winter time in Perth the beaches being rough, and now you've confirmed it.
    Every other explanation is improbable.
    Pushing it off Mudurup Rocks, there's a limestone ledge at sea level, and the currents would've been going south to north. The Cottesloe Quarry cliff scenario would require a group of people to then transport it by tow truck as it would've been undriveable.
    This only leaves the simplest explanation, that it was driven into the ocean and damaged by the ocean itself battering it against the rocks of the groyne. IMO it could well be a suicide or misadventure by the owner who exited the car in the water and thus got caught in a rip, forever to be lost.
    The back seat could've been dislodged and floated out in the early pounding by waves prior to the roof being crushed.
    As much as we'd like to think this is the work of some evil actor, I don't think there's enough evidence yet to support that as being the only explanation.

    Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
     
  13. Canning Vale

    Canning Vale Active Member

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    Is anyone within this forum aware if the E family lived in Beverley when BRE was young? Below is a 1977 TROVE newspaper article which advises a BE playing sport. He would have been aged 9 in 1977. There's no mention of a younger brother (TE) playing sport.

    I'm aware that the E family moved into the Gay St, Huntingdale home during the mid-1970s. Could it be possible that originally the family lived in Beverley but BRE remained with family for a couple of years (ie grandparents/aunt).

    These are only my thoughts and opinion.

    http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...s=l-state=Western+Australia|||sortby=dateDesc
     
  14. justified

    justified New Member

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    We also DO NOT know the structural integrity of JC's fiat. Was there rusting in the pillars of the roof? It was a 20? Year old car..oh...IMO.
     
  15. Spooks-R-Us

    Spooks-R-Us New Member

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    The waves did it!


    ............................................
    Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
     
  16. Spooks-R-Us

    Spooks-R-Us New Member

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    I read the car was so old JC had to get in the car through the passenger side door, as the driver's side door wouldn't unlock from the outside.

    I can find newspaper link in a bit


    ............................................
    Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
     
  17. no name

    no name Well-Known Member

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    Great work Met.
    Totally agree. Ive always been comfortable with the damage being sustained within the ocean and believed the ocean conditions to have been rough. In one of the articles I posted you can see a wave coming off the groyne that is bigger than the waves in the you tube shot Met posted. IMO the car went in 20th. There has been some assumption that with the reporting of the "ignition and lights being ON" that the car must have gone in closer to 22nd or it would have been seen earlier. However, I dont for a second think that this meant the lights were operational and glowing ON. I think this merely indicates that 1) the car was DRIVEN into the sea (hence ignition on) and 2) it was at night (hence lights being on). If there was the amount of sand drift that Sgt Katich claimed covering the path, that further lends support to the strength of the wind. Although I dont think JC drove herself into the sea, i have always wondered if she was perhaps in the vehicle and never retrieved, as petedavo suggested and as I have previously mentioned. Nothing of a personal nature washing ashore makes me think otherwise though.
     
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  18. Sutton

    Sutton New Member

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    EXCELLENT THESIS.

    I think your data and interpretation prove beyond any reasonable doubt that JC's car went into the ocean on June 20 and the damage to the Fiat was incurred in the ocean.

    IMO.
     
  19. Perpendicular

    Perpendicular Member

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    Hi Spooks,
    KK was absolutely an 'organised' crime in that it was heavily planned (abduction style, restraints, transportation, location etc.) and seemingly well executed, with awful results. It is very possible that the earlier HD attack was 'disorganised' in that the perpetrator may have just been out peeping, checked a door and it happened to be unlocked and was spurred into action unexpectedly through a sense of opportunism, and the kimono was simply the first decent item he could find to conceal himself/wipe off with, or it could have been a 'facilitator' to increase sexual arousal as noted previously. It is also possible he could have 'had his eye' on this particular victim (a previous poster has said the girl was in either the accused's brother/sister's year at school) and there was some predetermination to this brazen home invasion, or a combination of the two. Either way it was a high risk, immature style of offence. It is likely most sexual offenders start out as 'disorganised' because they are generally younger when they commence, less cognitively developed, and unable to conceive, plan, or execute more complex attacks. Nevertheless, this is when young offenders are creating strong neural pathways around fantasy, sexual arousal and offending behaviour, and significantly distorted thinking around reasoning and sexual objectification. The CSK would likely have a significant history of indecent exposure/public masturbation/peeping/stalking from from a younger adolescent age until he developmentally matured to be able to perpetrate in an organised style. Disorganised adult offenders are generally lower functioning psychologically (developmental disorders, psychiatric disorders) and poorly self-regulated so they often attack spontaneously when an opportunity presents itself, and nature of the offence usually leaves some indication of this haphazard approach and even the motivating [sadistic] sexual fantasies held. Organised offenders are obviously much higher functioning (shown in your great quotes), and while they may also make the most of opportunities should they arise (possible e.g. the drunken girl in Cottesloe) if they are very confident and adaptable, likely prefer an organised approach as it increases situational control and cuts down risk of detection. It's impossible to know why the CSK ceased offending in Claremont (too much heat, trilogy completed, moved to new offending area, commenced new relationship, neurological satiation/reduced fantasy), but it's improbable to imagine such an offender with that level of behavioural conditioning for sexual arousal around violent sexual fantasy to just retreat into normality, without some aspects of aberrant sexual behaviour continuing (compulsive masturbation, peculiar bedroom behaviour, internet/dark web pornography, additional offences).


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  20. no name

    no name Well-Known Member

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    I havent looked into this info at all, however, it would be my guess that this would be BE footballer played for WAFL & AFL same age as BRE and also from Perth. Fairly extensive sleuthing done on Edwards family in these threads and dont recall Beverley coming up. Just Margaret River. Mandurah etc
     
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