GUILTY Australia - Dulguigan, NSW, burnt remains in paddock, 18 Aug 2016 - Sabrina Bremer *arrest*

symbah

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http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-...on-leads-to-three-arrests/7802360?pfmredir=sm

Mentions that no charges have been laid in NSW. I wonder if any could be added?I don't think sentences in multiple states can be served concurrently. Would certainly increase jail time.


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I'm definately thinking it would increase the jail time.

http://www.tweeddailynews.com.au/news/breaking-trio-set-to-be-charged-tonight-over-horri/3084296/
The spokesperson could not confirm if the trio would be extradited to NSW to face the judiciary, or if the murder took place in Qld.
"That remains to be seen, further investigation needs to be conducted before that is determined.
"This is a joint operation between Qld and NSW police; has been from the beginning and it will be to the very end.
"Joint investigations into the suspected homicide are continuing."
 

Bohemian

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http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-...on-leads-to-three-arrests/7802360?pfmredir=sm

Mentions that no charges have been laid in NSW. I wonder if any could be added?I don't think sentences in multiple states can be served concurrently. Would certainly increase jail time.


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I just watched the news segment on Channel 9 Sydney's 'Today' show. Alleged Sabrina's murder occurred in QLD before her remains were transported to NSW and burnt. The other man is allegedly an accessory after the fact, presumably this also occurred in QLD. I'm not sure about the charges of interfering. All three are to appear in court in QLD later this morning so we'll know more then.
 

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Wolfinator

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From the same Brisbane Times article:

A forensic procedure order was granted for Ms Wheatley
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...gan-woman-sabrina-bremer-20160901-gr66bl.html

I'm not up on exactly what a forensic procedure order is. Just wondering if maybe she sustained an injury during the murder that needs to be forensically examined or maybe it has something to do with her mental health?

"A forensic procedure application can be made when you do not consent to the forensic procedure, or cannot consent (because you are a minor (under 18) or an incapable person within the definition of the Crimes (Forensic Procedures) Act 2000 (NSW). An application may be made for an order to be made compelling you to undergo a forensic procedure."

I think she must not be cooperating.

DNA samples? Injury angle also a distinct possibility. I don't think it is related to mental health?

http://www.armstronglegal.com.au/criminal-law/forensic-procedures/application


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Wolfinator

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Mundy and Wheatley are "engaged" Both have FB profiles.

Wheatley looks to have her own children and is a "night manager" at the Station Hotel.

If you take a look at Wheatley's FB profile there's a few clues as to why she is possibly not cooperating ... Lot's of "*advertiser censored** the police"


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Bohemian

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"A forensic procedure application can be made when you do not consent to the forensic procedure, or cannot consent (because you are a minor (under 18) or an incapable person within the definition of the Crimes (Forensic Procedures) Act 2000 (NSW). An application may be made for an order to be made compelling you to undergo a forensic procedure."

I think she must not be cooperating.

DNA samples? Injury angle also a distinct possibility. I don't think it is related to mental health?

http://www.armstronglegal.com.au/criminal-law/forensic-procedures/application


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I think it must be to compel her to comply with a forensic medical or dental examination. Whatever it is obviously she doesn't think it's going to aid her defence.

Relevant Queensland legislation:

Queensland Consolidated Acts
Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000
Chapter 17--Forensic procedures
Parts 3-6


http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_act/ppara2000365/

This gives more specific information:

QPS Operating Procedures Manual
Issue 53, July 2016
Chapter 2 Investigative Procedures
2.2.3 Forensic Procedures (p 183-9)
(.PDF 4.43 MB)

https://www.google.com.au/url?q=htt...ggWMAM&usg=AFQjCNE250b9yoT1oQv213t6dJUOIjyZig
 

georgy girl

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"A forensic procedure application can be made when you do not consent to the forensic procedure, or cannot consent (because you are a minor (under 18) or an incapable person within the definition of the Crimes (Forensic Procedures) Act 2000 (NSW). An application may be made for an order to be made compelling you to undergo a forensic procedure."

I think she must not be cooperating.

DNA samples? Injury angle also a distinct possibility. I don't think it is related to mental health?

http://www.armstronglegal.com.au/criminal-law/forensic-procedures/application


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What sort of forensics might they be hoping to find on her at this late stage?

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georgy girl

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Apologies Wolfinator, upon rereading your post, I realize that was a stupid question. I was more thinking of the timeline of DNA evidence and whether it would still be attainable/viable

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Wolfinator

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Apologies Wolfinator, upon rereading your post, I realize that was a stupid question. I was more thinking of the timeline of DNA evidence and whether it would still be attainable/viable

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No apologies. Good question.

Bohemian would be our resident "bio-techie" on this but I'd hazard that the corpse was only partially burnt - so finger nail scrapings and hair on clothes could be evident. Anything that could place her in Sabrina's car? If they have uncovered the crime scene - maybe even her own blood.

I don't think DNA degrades too rapidly at a site. I think it's the greater risk of contamination at uncontrolled "sites" that is the problem. Body and car were discovered fairly swiftly - hopefully lots of leads there.


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Wolfinator

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Timeline edit: From court reporting. Date of alleged murder. Date of missing persons report changed. Date of car discovery. Question mark now over whether daughter spoke to Sabrina on the Tuesday. Arrests and court appearances. Sabrina's funeral.


Timeline:
Prior to 9 Aug: Daughter FB post : "if people cared a few weeks ago you might still be here" - something happened.

9 August: fails to appear in court for drug related offence

15 August (Mon):
- Arrested for failure to appear.
- Last seen leaving Logan Police Station at (time?) 11 Civic Parade Logan.
- Contacted partner/house mate that she was heading home. Did not arrive.

16 August (Tue) "Spoke" to Daughter on Phone (may be incorrect MSM reporting)

16 August (Tue) Police allege the 34-year-old was murdered on the day her teenage daughter Bianca reported her missing on August 16.

16 August (Tue) Daughter could not reach SB. Filed missing persons report. (from court reporting)

18 August (Thurs): 7:30am Body discovered at Pollards Rd, Dulguigan.

19 August (Fri):3:20pm man leaves Sabrina's car in Dawson St Woodridge. Caught on CCTV. Leaves with red fabric - possibly Sabrina's T-shirt

23 August (Tue) - Sabrina's motor vehicle located by public tip.

29 August (Mon) Three people arrested and held for the murder of Sabrina.

30 August (Tue) - Joshua Mundy Rachel Wheatley (murder & interfering with corpse) and Jade Nielsen (accessory after the fact) appear in Beenleigh Magistrates Court. JM & RW bail denied. JN bail adjourned. RW forensic procedure order granted.

31 August (Wed) - Sabrina Bremer private family burial.




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Bohemian

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No apologies. Good question.

Bohemian would be our resident "bio-techie" on this but I'd hazard that the corpse was only partially burnt - so finger nail scrapings and hair on clothes could be evident. Anything that could place her in Sabrina's car? If they have uncovered the crime scene - maybe even her own blood.

I don't think DNA degrades too rapidly at a site. I think it's the greater risk of contamination at uncontrolled "sites" that is the problem. Body and car were discovered fairly swiftly - hopefully lots of leads there.


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More a legal question, but I'll do my best.

I think police can request or take certain forensic evidence from an adult in custody such as; self-admistered buccal swabs and hair samples for DNA testing; finger, hand and foot prints; and scrapings from under finger and toe nails. Although any further non-intimate or intimate forensic procedures performed, such as; taking samples of blood, examinations and/or photographs of body parts and genitals can be refused and require a Forensic Procedures Order from a Magistrate.

For example, Gerard Baden-Clay was under an order when police wanted the infamous shaving nicks (Alison's defensive scratches) on his face examined and photographed:

https://www.google.com.au/url?q=htt...CB4wCA&usg=AFQjCNF9ZlFWOHU1F7pIN7e3ngmtJKwdlw

Addendum:

Just found this explanation from NSW legal practice (Queensland would probably be much the same):

http://gmhlegal.com/criminal-law/forensic-procedures/
 

georgy girl

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Thank you Wolfinator and Bohemian.

So, they'll be wanting to match the DNA of the person who's been arrested to evidence on the victim? Is that right? I was getting confused, thinking they would be looking for evidence of the victim on the person they've arrested and assumed that would be long gone. The shaving nicks in the GB-C case is a good example of how I could be wrong there though.

I'll stop thinking out loud now ☺

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Good!

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I'm wondering what the motive was.

Clearly it must be related to that "string of drug related offences" and the visit to Logan Police Station on Monday 15 August. Sabrina walked away from that visit so why did it end up with that violent outcome?
Were those matters really so serious that someone was willing to kill because of them?
If they were and the police understood the full extent of them should they perhaps have considered if Sabrina's personal safety or that of her family members were at risk?
As someone noticed the guy parking her car was wearing a jacket with padded shoulders - possibly a motorbike jacket. Could Sabrina have been up against members of a bikie gang?
Lots of questions - luckily in this case it seems we will get answers for them sooner or later.
 

Wolfinator

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I'm wondering what the motive was.

Clearly it must be related to that "string of drug related offences" and the visit to Logan Police Station on Monday 15 August. Sabrina walked away from that visit so why did it end up with that violent outcome?
Were those matters really so serious that someone was willing to kill because of them?
If they were and the police understood the full extent of them should they perhaps have considered if Sabrina's personal safety or that of her family members were at risk?
As someone noticed the guy parking her car was wearing a jacket with padded shoulders - possibly a motorbike jacket. Could Sabrina have been up against members of a bikie gang?
Lots of questions - luckily in this case it seems we will get answers for them sooner or later.

All suggestions are within reason. The "husband/wife" murder team and being able to rope in an accessory makes me think this was "business".

I'm still utterly perplexed at the choice of the Dulguigan location to dispose of and burn the corpse.

The choice to drive that stretch of pacific highway - covered in cameras, tolls and cops is perplexing. Then to set her on fire at the side of a remote-ish but still public road and then leave the billowing smoke???

Why not head inland? Very easy to "disappear" a body in western and central Qld without a trace compared to the coast.

Was it a panicked, high on drugs decision or just people with the IQ of amoebas?


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symbah

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All suggestions are within reason. The "husband/wife" murder team and being able to rope in an accessory makes me think this was "business".

I'm still utterly perplexed at the choice of the Dulguigan location to dispose of and burn the corpse.

The choice to drive that stretch of pacific highway - covered in cameras, tolls and cops is perplexing. Then to set her on fire at the side of a remote-ish but still public road and then leave the billowing smoke???

Why not head inland? Very easy to "disappear" a body in western and central Qld without a trace compared to the coast.

Was it a panicked, high on drugs decision or just people with the IQ of amoebas?


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Lol, Wolfinator - people with the IQ of amoebas! Could be for sure, a real possibility with whats unfolded so far with this case.

After looking at RW's FB, I was left with the impression of quite a complex person, something wrong there. Perhaps the motive might not be as straight forward as solely drug related.
 

Wolfinator

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Lol, Wolfinator - people with the IQ of amoebas! Could be for sure, a real possibility with whats unfolded so far with this case.

After looking at RW's FB, I was left with the impression of quite a complex person, something wrong there. Perhaps the motive might not be as straight forward as solely drug related.

Complex is a good word for it.


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Bohemian

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Thank you Wolfinator and Bohemian.

So, they'll be wanting to match the DNA of the person who's been arrested to evidence on the victim? Is that right? I was getting confused, thinking they would be looking for evidence of the victim on the person they've arrested and assumed that would be long gone. The shaving nicks in the GB-C case is a good example of how I could be wrong there though.

I'll stop thinking out loud now ☺

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Pribsbly to do with trace evidence found on Sabrina (or at one of the crime scenes) thought to be from the alleged perpetrator, it could be evidence of defensive wounds on the alleged perpetrator from her, or the examination of chemical or flame burns on the alleged perpetrator, seeing as an accelerant must have been used to dispose of Sabrina's remains. Any forensic evidence that has been specified by police and the Magistrate has issued an order for collection.
 
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