Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Blue Mountains NSW, 16 July 2013 - #3

[Ken05]

I'm just wondering what the etiquette is with drug deals? For instance, if someone is a regular client, is it normal to have a tab (IOU) set-up with the dealer? If so, this would mean that after a while a debt starts to accumulate. I imagine with a regular cocaine habit this debt might accumulate quite rapidly.

Hence, whilst Pambos might have genuinely been going to supply only a small amount on the night of GT's disappearance, is it also possible that there were previous debts that needed to be sorted out? Just trying to work out why someone would drive all that way late on a Monday night...

 

[Derryn Hunch]

I'm just wondering what the etiquette is with drug deals? For instance, if someone is a regular client, is it normal to have a tab (IOU) set-up with the dealer? If so, this would mean that after a while a debt starts to accumulate. I imagine with a regular cocaine habit this debt might accumulate quite rapidly.

Hence, whilst Pambos might have genuinely been going to supply only a small amount on the night of GT's disappearance, is it also possible that there were previous debts that needed to be sorted out? Just trying to work out why someone would drive all that way late on a Monday night...

True, but consider that someone who is dealing inlarge quantity's also makes large margins on small deals. Also consider the $800 worth of mdma is probably only about 50 pills... That's not a particularly large sale.

 

[Mountain Misst]

:thewave::welcome5:

 

[fruity]

Humdinger that makes sense to me...you see a few years ago I was seeing this guy and one night we all had a get together at a friends where we drank a bit and he was so wasted that all he wanted to go and get coke to sort himself out. We told him to just drink water but such was his desperation that he got into his car that he started to drive and smashed his car into his friends parked car. He got a taxi after that but no one was happy at all not to mention so dangerous.

I have seen that desperation so maybe that's what Gary was feeling in a way- the feeling of a come down or feeling too drunk so was desperate to get the supply.

So many questions, I don;t even know where to start.

I have been reading these threads last few weeks - first time commenting! Been a real eye opener being on here, thanks guys!

Welcome. Good theory re 'coming down'. Also, thanks Derryn for your insight.

WRT coming down, could that also explain his desperation in running/jumping/crashing through the bush?

Another question: is paranoia a side effect of cocaine use? Could Gary, if had already taken drugs, have been hit with a wave of paranoia - and this is why they kept him on the phone, trying to calm him down?

While I'm on this train of though, does cocaine produce hallucinations? Or feelings of grandeur?

I am totally inexperienced in this area.

 

[Derryn Hunch]

On phone at the moment, but in answer to the above, Google amphetamine psychosis

 

[fruity]

Oh wow. From the wikipedia page:

Cocaine has a similar potential to induce temporary psychosis[16] with more than half of cocaine abusers reporting at least some psychotic symptoms at some point.[17] Typical symptoms of sufferers include paranoid delusions that they are being followed and that their drug use is being watched accompanied by hallucinations that support the delusional beliefs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulant_psychosis#Cocaine

Perhaps that's why he was running? Maybe that's why he ventured off the road and into the bush - to 'hide' from someone he thought was following him?

 

[fruity]

I really hope they give more details about the contents of the 17 minute call at the inquest (and that the information is released publicly). I bet that's why the police are so insistent that it was an accident ... I've always thought that something was said in that phone call to make them know, and now I think it even more.

 

[indigo7]

Blue Mountains Gazette
Cocaine link in Tweddle death
By Emma Partridge
Oct. 2, 2013, midnight

Basically the same article with a differently worded introduction to the story.

Just reading this Gazette article along with recent posts when it struck me that maybe Gary had a drug hit BEFORE he ran out of The Fairmont. Maybe one of the colleagues had stuff that he shared with Gary with the understanding that Gary would pay him back for what he used!! This might help us understand why Gary ran out of The Fairmont the way he did and his actions afterwards.Maybe he did have a drug induced psychotic episode which made him paranoid and run away from the hotel.Maybe Pambos didn't actually meet up with Gary as reported - he may have rung or texted Gary to say it was just too far to drive. This could have freaked Gary out even more.Maybe Gary was so wasted that he just ran out to Sublime Pt & down into the bush thinking he was Bear Grylls or something??

 

[Xantara]

Humdinger that makes sense to me...you see a few years ago I was seeing this guy and one night we all had a get together at a friends where we drank a bit and he was so wasted that all he wanted to go and get coke to sort himself out. We told him to just drink water but such was his desperation that he got into his car that he started to drive and smashed his car into his friends parked car. He got a taxi after that but no one was happy at all not to mention so dangerous.

I have seen that desperation so maybe that's what Gary was feeling in a way- the feeling of a come down or feeling too drunk so was desperate to get the supply.

So many questions, I don;t even know where to start.

I have been reading these threads last few weeks - first time commenting! Been a real eye opener being on here, thanks guys!

In what sense does taking coke enable a person to 'sort themselves out'? What effect does it have on someone who's already been drinking or is under the influence of something that is making them 'wobbly'?

Great find Fruity on wikipedia re cocaine possibly causing delusions of being pursued. No one can get their head around why Gary went into the bush that night - quite possibly only explicable by some irrational response on his part to something...

Also note that now it's being reported that Gary was 'distressed' when he spoke to his colleagues. 180 degree turnaround from the initial report of being in 'good spirits'...

 

[Lexis]

Oh wow. From the wikipedia page:



Perhaps that's why he was running? Maybe that's why he ventured off the road and into the bush - to 'hide' from someone he thought was following him?

I would call that an ADR. Usually applied to outcomes of pharmaceutical administration, but to me it sums up some outcomes for any drug/s .....[see Adverse drug reaction (ADR) on Wiki

Cocaine consistently antagonizes the learning deficits, psychomotor performance deficits and driving deficits induced by alcohol. The combination of alcohol and cocaine tends to have greater-than-additive effects on heart rate, concomitant with up to 30% increased blood cocaine levels. Both prospective and retrospective data further reveal that co-use leads to the formation of cocaethylene, which may potentiate the cardiotoxic effects of cocaine or alcohol alone. More importantly, retrospective data suggest that the combination can potentiate the tendency towards violent thoughts and threats, which may lead to an increase of violent behaviours."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
"

 

[Derryn Hunch]

In what sense does taking coke enable a person to 'sort themselves out'? What effect does it have on someone who's already been drinking or is under the influence of something that is making them 'wobbly'?

Great find Fruity on wikipedia re cocaine possibly causing delusions of being pursued. No one can get their head around why Gary went into the bush that night - quite possibly only explicable by some irrational response on his part to something...

Also note that now it's being reported that Gary was 'distressed' when he spoke to his colleagues. 180 degree turnaround from the initial report of being in 'good spirits'...

Cocaine and methamphetamine will both produce a "wake up" and "perky" feeling - thereby pulling someone who is "dregging" and falling asleep out of that hole and back "on top of things" - basically speaking, it instantly "sobers you up"

 

[SouthAussie]

So, if Gary was having an adverse drug reaction, his colleagues just allowed him to run out into the night by himself? I think we need to remember he was with 4 other people before he left the Fairmont. He had his head together enough to gather their money, and go by himself to meet someone on Watkins Road.

I think if he was freaking out, someone who wasn't freaking out would have been right on his tail.

His reason for running could simply be that he needed to get down to Watkins Road in time to meet up with Pambos ... or whoever he met that night.


(I have seen someone having an adverse drug reaction .. her friends were right on her tail as she ran away, and called an ambulance quick smart).

 

[Xantara]

So, if Gary was having an adverse drug reaction, his colleagues just allowed him to run out into the night by himself? I think we need to remember he was with 4 other people before he left the Fairmont. He had his head together enough to gather their money, and go by himself to meet someone on Watkins Road.

I think if he was freaking out, someone who wasn't freaking out would have been right on his tail.

His reason for running could simply be that he needed to get down to Watkins Road in time to meet up with Pambos ... or whoever he met that night.

I have a real problem reconciling how he was reported to have been when he left the Fairmont - advised his colleagues he was stepping out, indicated it'd be for a (reasonably expected) short time, capable of using his phone, standing on watkins rd , presumably so he could be found by pambos or whoever he was meeting. the passing motorists didnt indicate he was behaving in a crazy manner or anything. trying to wave down a car in itself doesnt sound all that crazy. we dont know why he did it of course, he either didnt know what car pambos has or perhaps he was after a lift to get closer to pambos.. who knows.

But then not long after that, he is running crazily through the bush or wherever, lost, disorientated... as a result of what??

we have him going from being quiet and wobbly, to having a few sips of beer but then not being too wobbly to run out of the resort and stand on watkins rd and use his phone, to then running crazily around in the bush or wherever

wonder whether he ingested something between returning to the fairmont from dinner and rushing out of the resort? or between standing on watkins rd and getting lost in the bush? It just sounds like such a rollercoaster of behaviours!

 

[Lexis]

I have a real problem reconciling how he was reported to have been when he left the Fairmont - advised his colleagues he was stepping out, indicated it'd be for a (reasonably expected) short time, capable of using his phone, standing on watkins rd , presumably so he could be found by pambos or whoever he was meeting. the passing motorists didnt indicate he was behaving in a crazy manner or anything. trying to wave down a car in itself doesnt sound all that crazy. we dont know why he did it of course, he either didnt know what car pambos has or perhaps he was after a lift to get closer to pambos.. who knows.

But then not long after that, he is running crazily through the bush or wherever, lost, disorientated... as a result of what??

we have him going from being quiet and wobbly, to having a few sips of beer but then not being too wobbly to run out of the resort and stand on watkins rd and use his phone, to then running crazily around in the bush or wherever

wonder whether he ingested something between returning to the fairmont from dinner and rushing out of the resort? or between standing on watkins rd and getting lost in the bush? It just sounds like such a rollercoaster of behaviours!

If it was an ADR ( & with alcohol too), it depends when the ADR set in and perhaps it set in at the time he said he was going downstairs for a minute or shortly after.

He might have even been confused about the time of any arranged meeting with CP, flagging down any old car thinking it was CP.

His colleagues may not have witnessed a full blown ADR before he left the Fairmont.
And the others may have been high themselves so not very attentive.

 

[SouthAussie]

I actually believe very little of what the colleagues initially reported about the phone call. If he was in peril or freaking out on the phone or 'lost in the bush', would anyone wait for over 3 hours to help them or get them help? I don't think so.

Sitting around a phone saying 'Where are you, mate? Look in the letterboxes, see if that can help you figure out where you are' is not exactly helping someone who is panicking and 'lost in the bush'. Wait around for 3 hours to see if they come back? That is not helping either.

No .. there is more to this story.

 

[FigTree]

@Xantara:

Also note that now it's being reported that Gary was 'distressed' when he spoke to his colleagues. 180 degree turnaround from the initial report of being in 'good spirits'...

I actually believe very little of what the colleagues initially reported about the phone call. If he was in peril or freaking out on the phone or 'lost in the bush', would anyone wait for over 3 hours to help them or get them help? I don't think so.

Sitting around a phone saying 'Where are you, mate? Look in the letterboxes, see if that can help you figure out where you are' is not exactly helping someone who is panicking and 'lost in the bush'. Wait around for 3 hours to see if they come back? That is not helping either.

No .. there is more to this story.

Agreed!


Yes, though a gradual turn around - like everything evolved and went downhill slowly :facepalm:

A couple of clarity points re: msm reporting...


There's been a few descriptive's used about the call:
Good Spirits
Not panicked
Running and Jumping
Pleading
Distressed


The first reports of Gary being in good spirits were around the 18th of July -

18th August - 4th of August - MSM were still using the words 'Good Spirits' describing Garys 'state of mind/attitude' in their reports.
It wasn't used much after this.
The 23-year-old, who worked as a sales representative at computer technology corporation Oracle, appeared to be in good spirits when talking on his mobile phone ...
_____

24th July - this report from the Daily Telegraph says Gary didn't sound panicked during the call ...
While Mr Tweddle didn't sound panicked on the phone he did tell colleagues he was lost and was headed towards a "light on a hill" before his phone battery died or the phone was switched off.
______

2nd August - BMG: we hear that colleagues told police that it sounded as if Gary was running and jumping over things while on the phone ...
He spoke to colleagues for 17 minutes and said he was lost and did not know where he was.
Police says he told his colleagues he was running and sounded as he was jumping or leaping over things as he spoke to them.

______

4th August - SMH - the word pleading comes into the story - but Im not sure if Gary was pleading with his friends to take the situation seriously - or pleading because his phone battery was low...
''He was pleading with them to stay on the phone, saying 'I am lost I cannot find my way back.' He kept talking about heading towards a light and was worried about his phone running out of battery.''

_____

29th September - SMH - now the article (main SMH - by the same author who had written the other articles) is saying 'distressed'..
Shortly after leaving the resort, a distressed Tweddle rang colleagues and said he was lost.

.

 

[FigTree]

His reason for running could simply be that he needed to get down to Watkins Road in time to meet up with Pambos ... or whoever he met that night.

Through the Court documents, the report indicates the Police believe Gary left the Hotel to meet Pambos - it might be from the phone records or from Pambos they got this information and timeline...

But I feel confident to agree that this is why Gary left the Hotel ...

Between 10pm and 2am that night, Tweedle, 23, was reportedly trying to meet Christopher Thomas Pambos, 26, who had allegedly driven from Sydney to the Blue Mountains to sell him 2.5 grams of cocaine in five plastic bags, court documents and phone records reveal.

.

 

[SouthAussie]

Through the Court documents, the report indicates the Police believe Gary left the Hotel to meet Pambos - it might be from the phone records or from Pambos they got this information and timeline...

But I feel confident to agree that this is why Gary left the Hotel ...

Quote:
Between 10pm and 2am that night, Tweedle, 23, was reportedly trying to meet Christopher Thomas Pambos, 26, who had allegedly driven from Sydney to the Blue Mountains to sell him 2.5 grams of cocaine in five plastic bags, court documents and phone records reveal.

.

BBM

And there is that 2am time ... the time I personally think there was some attempted phone activity on Gary's mobile.

 

[FigTree]

BBM

And there is that 2am time ... the time I personally think there was some attempted phone activity on Gary's mobile.

Yep ...
and who knows how many calls there were now...

 

[alreetlike]

I always did wonder what his phone records revealed and whether there was more than we'd heard about.

I've only just caught up on the thread after being away for a week with limited access and unfortunately I can't say I'm surprised at there being more details of the drug connection which have come to light.