Australia Australia - Jenny Cook, 29, Townsville, Qld, 19 Jan 2009

[Ausgirl]

Here's a question that is circling in my mind in a really annoying fashion, and I wondered what you guys thought:

-- If this was not a suicide, why didn't the person who killed Jenny simply put the knife in her hand, which would have looked way less odd, and thus would logically raise less suspicion? Why stick it in the window grill?

 

[FigTree]

Figtree, should say here that the blood and vomit which may have 'set' in the folds of her neck etc, (particularly in Nth Qld summer heat) might have made PC believe Jenny had stabbed or slashed her throat, as he told Mr. Reis. Not implying Jenny's mother would be led to that conclusion once her daughter had been cleaned up prior to viewing, when people would have rendered Jenny's appearance as 'normal' as possible for the sake of her family


I'm not aware of any 'back balcony' though. The real estate's description of the house states a front balcony leading off the master bedroom and a patio at the rear. Do you have a plan of the house or information about a back balcony and if so, could you post it please, because I haven't been able to find it

Sorry I put balcony - its just a gravel surface on the left hand side of the house -there's also an air-conditioning condenser unit on the outside of the wall - a wheelbarrow - 2 plants - a gate, and a grated window.
I dont have a house map - just looking at the maps from different years - satellite and street view. (They are different years apart).

I'll see if the edit is available and then change it
Thanks for the pick-up on that
:seeya:

 

[FigTree]

Figtree, some of the officers stated at the coronial enquiry that if it had been up to them (said in hindsight) they would have seized the board and would have subjected it to forensic examination, etc.

PS Osborn, for the record now in the coronial findings, said the board was 'big and covered in blood'. She did not instruct officers to seize the board or subject it to forensic investigation. It was too 'big' you see, and it was 'covered in blood'. So it was left at the scene. The house was released to PC 24 hours or less later. And PC said he disposed of it

Same with the plastic mentioned by PC; no tests, not seized


Board was not dragged. Big board, very cumbersome as Bardell testified. Not something he would attempt to lift, he said. But there it was on the stones. No drag marks. So if it was dragged, someone tidied the stones afterwards and covered up the drag marks. If it was lifted, all 150cms x 150 cms of it, weighing between 10 and 20 kilos by PC's estimation (more if it was marine ply) then it almost certainly wasn't Jenny who lifted it. Her back was wrecked. Your lifting strength comes from your back and shoulders. Weak or sore back and holding a bag of sugar is agony. So either someone fairly strong carried that board into position or someone dragged it and then covered up the drag marks. Not Jenny though as she was dying or dead




Agree

I have a few theories of how Jenny may have been moved - such as the board was placed on the wheel barrow - jenny on the board and she was put in place. Barrow & Gravel Post - Board Post

but I'm also considering..
*that she was moved or rotated by the plastic under the sheet - it would have to be something like concreter's plastic - it rolls over stones with a load on it easily - it is very thick, tough and durable. If they still had building material (as the board was supposed to be from) then Id say it maybe that type of plastic.

and I agree, that the board not being taken as evidence is just sloppy work.
Homicide was still the call.
No knife - no board - :gaah:
Wonder if they kept the sheet or the bathrobe tie?

And I would not call 30 minute investigative search of the house 'extenstive' as DS Osborn did.

 

[FigTree]

Here's a question that is circling in my mind in a really annoying fashion, and I wondered what you guys thought:

-- If this was not a suicide, why didn't the person who killed Jenny simply put the knife in her hand, which would have looked way less odd, and thus would logically raise less suspicion? Why stick it in the window grill?

Because maybe they thought the dog would cut itself or lick the knife?


I am also not ruling out that it may have started out as being a robbery - or set up to look like a robbery - done by someone other than anyone who lived at the house - but, may have been known to someone at the house.
If that's the case possibly something went wrong - and that may have been because Jenny didn't go to her appointments she had that day, so she was home and wasn't supposed to be there.
Jenny may have been out walking the dog, or was gardening out the side - and the person entered the property and was surprised by Jenny.

If it was attempted robbery gone wrong & murder - I could understand the scene better - it seems like a panic setup - like someone thought - what if I place the knife here and the board here and rap this around her and .....
The scene and setting is badly constructed and badly thought out, and some of the comments made by others that day just don't fit - but they do (to me) if it had been a set-up that went wrong. And those comments cover variable situations - 'just in case type' comments - Knife missing from the block, Back door was unlocked.

To add to that thought - after Jenny getting the letter that her claim was disallowed the day before, she may not have had to keep the appointment she had for the following day. There was no discussion between her and her husband, so he may not have known any plans she had for the day - not that he seemed to care - he didn't talk to her the morning of the day she died.

Not getting the workcover payment through (and Jenny not previously working) points to a lack of funds coming to the household budget which may have been needed by this time.
One thing missing in the Inquest is the financials at the time prior to Jenny's death.
And as Isisrising pointed out - they would have had home insurance - which would include household content insurance.

Maybe Life Insurance wasn't the first port of call.


Page 6 of the Report

Constable Bower: He said that the appointment was written in Ms Cook’s diary. Const Bower looked at the diary and saw ‘various appointments’.

I'm not leaving out that it may have been set up.

 

[Ausgirl]

Good thoughts, Figgy. I hadn't thought about the dog, but had considered a panic. It's like it's a bit overdone?

The plastic sheet was mentioned, as far as I know, only by PC at his friend's house. I actually wondered if he'd been misquoted - said 'sheet' and the friend heard 'plastic sheet' - or if it was another 'visual mistake' akin to the cut throat and hands. But yeah, it's not mentioned at all by any official at the crime scene.

Re the appointment - maybe that was the WorkCover person she spoke to on the phone at 8.49am? And I wonder how long that call went for - was it 8.49 when they picked up the phone, or hung up? Anyway, I was thinking that might have been it. It sounded like a very positive call.

 

[MsAnais]

I have a few theories of how Jenny may have been moved - such as the board was placed on the wheel barrow - jenny on the board and she was put in place. Barrow & Gravel Post - Board Post

but I'm also considering..
*that she was moved or rotated by the plastic under the sheet - it would have to be something like concreter's plastic - it rolls over stones with a load on it easily - it is very thick, tough and durable. If they still had building material (as the board was supposed to be from) then Id say it maybe that type of plastic.

and I agree, that the board not being taken as evidence is just sloppy work.
Homicide was still the call.
No knife - no board - :gaah:
Wonder if they kept the sheet or the bathrobe tie?

And I would not call 30 minute investigative search of the house 'extenstive' as DS Osborn did.

I'm following a WS case (Maggie Daniels in the US) and LE have just searched the house of a suspect. For seven and a half hours!! A little apartment!! That's thorough!!

And I'm reading the Milat book by Clive Small - they spent hours and hours searching his house for evidence.

Half an hour!!! Extensive my a$$!!!!:facepalm:

 

[MsAnais]

What if it was a hired hit....and the knife in the wall was a 'calling card'??! An ex-crim, who's familiar with the binding of shivs.....

(far-fetched I know. Possibly TOO many crime shows have been watched by me!!:floorlaugh

But the knife in the wall is weird.

I'm wondering if whoever did it/ arranged it KNEW that it wouldn't be seriously questioned/investigated due to connections to LE? Otherwise it's just such a preposterous scenario IMO.

 

[Ausgirl]

Half an hour!!! Extensive my a$$!!!!:facepalm:

Especially wen you consider that none of the 24 police who visited that property were told what to look for. Like.. tape. Or string. :facepalm:

Why were there 24 cops there? In just over 24 hrs, the house was released... huge amounts of things remained undone... what were they *doing* there?

 

[MsAnais]

Especially wen you consider that none of the 24 police who visited that property were told what to look for. Like.. tape. Or string. :facepalm:

Why were there 24 cops there? In just over 24 hrs, the house was released... huge amounts of things remained undone... what were they *doing* there?

Oooooh.....good question, Ausgirl! What WERE they doing there?? And why 24 cops??

From memory, that's way more than searched Ivan Milat's house - and he was up for being a serial killer.

Why would 24 police attend something like this??

Surprise, surprise....another weird aspect to this case :facepalm:

 

[MsAnais]

Could a case actually look any dodgier??!!:gaah:

 

[Ausgirl]

Has anyone seen mention so far of how high off the ground the knife was? I can only find that the wound was 135cm from Jenny's heels, on her body -- but no mention of measurements taken re the knife? Or am I having another brain fart?

 

[MadDoc]

Here's a question that is circling in my mind in a really annoying fashion, and I wondered what you guys thought:

-- If this was not a suicide, why didn't the person who killed Jenny simply put the knife in her hand, which would have looked way less odd, and thus would logically raise less suspicion? Why stick it in the window grill?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't her stab wound in the back? How difficult is it to twist your arm behind your back (especially with a spinal injury) and stab yourself in the back? With only one stabbing motion, and successfully strike deep enough to kill?

 

[SouthAussie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't her stab wound in the back? How difficult is it to twist your arm behind your back (especially with a spinal injury) and stab yourself in the back? With only one stabbing motion, and successfully strike deep enough to kill?

I think the stab wound was to the front (chest), MadDoc.

" .... her that Ms Cook had died of a knife wound to the chest and that it was ...."

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf

 

[FigTree]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't her stab wound in the back? How difficult is it to twist your arm behind your back (especially with a spinal injury) and stab yourself in the back? With only one stabbing motion, and successfully strike deep enough to kill?

From the Report - http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf
Page: 4 - COD

The wound was to the left side of the chest, entering the left lung through the area between the 2nd and 3rd rib. At 135cm above the heels, the wound passed right downwards and backwards to penetrate the lung to a depth of 7cm. The wound also penetrated a branch of pulmonary artery within the left lung.
Both lungs demonstrated aspiration of blood, particularly the right side. The stomach showed that Ms Cook had swallowed blood. There were no pills, tablets or capsules found in her stomach.

I did check the documents for posterior/anterior - no mention.
I have been concluding the knife wound was to the front of Jenny's body.
:seeya:

ETA: Snap SA Im writing - your posting

 

[FigTree]

Good thoughts, Figgy. I hadn't thought about the dog, but had considered a panic. It's like it's a bit overdone?

The plastic sheet was mentioned, as far as I know, only by PC at his friend's house. I actually wondered if he'd been misquoted - said 'sheet' and the friend heard 'plastic sheet' - or if it was another 'visual mistake' akin to the cut throat and hands. But yeah, it's not mentioned at all by any official at the crime scene.

Re the appointment - maybe that was the WorkCover person she spoke to on the phone at 8.49am? And I wonder how long that call went for - was it 8.49 when they picked up the phone, or hung up? Anyway, I was thinking that might have been it. It sounded like a very positive call.

Yes Ausgirl - there was much of that witnesses evidence which seemed questionable - but I also wondered - this was the person PJC stayed with the night the investigation. I wonder how strong the bond of friendship was between them, and then why did he say the other details come out. Helpful or a hindrance?


Jenny had more than the (phone) workcover appointment that day.
I also realize that the decision Jenny made to persue the Workcover matter through a civil court was after she received an email on the 16th from her Barrister, (was 3 days before her death) and she was going to pursue the claim that way. So they were disputing the payout on pre-existing disc degeneration. The email was found on the table that night of Jenny death during investigations.

Possibly she had a regular appointment on that day - but didn't go, which saw Jenny at home instead of being out.

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf
Page 4

During her period of recovery, WorkCover disputed Ms Cook's claim that her back injury was entirely work related. WorkCover contended that Ms Cook's injury was partly attributable to a pre-existing disc degeneration. The claim remained ongoing at the time of Ms Cook’s death.
On 16 January 2009, a barrister provided an opinion to the effect that the WorkCover decision that there was some pre-existing disc degeneration was correct and that Ms Cook should accept that decision and proceed with a common law claim based upon the specific date injury and aggravation of the L5/S1 level of her spine.

It was this advice that was found on the kitchen bench on the evening of Ms Cook’s death.

Ms Cook received this advice, via email, from her solicitor on 16 January 2009 and replied to him on the same date stating that she was happy to take the advice and not proceed with QComp but proceed with a common law claim.

There must have been some costs involved getting the workcover through.
Jenny had been off work 18 months.
She was dealing with a Barrister.

 

[FigTree]

What if it was a hired hit....and the knife in the wall was a 'calling card'??! An ex-crim, who's familiar with the binding of shivs.....

(far-fetched I know. Possibly TOO many crime shows have been watched by me!!:floorlaugh

But the knife in the wall is weird.

I'm wondering if whoever did it/ arranged it KNEW that it wouldn't be seriously questioned/investigated due to connections to LE? Otherwise it's just such a preposterous scenario IMO.

Yeah - Im thinking another person could have been involved - and the knife was set up with an intentional lead that it could have been a crim who did it. Which raises the other complication that it was set-up to look like that as well. :facepalm:

Im not seeing Jenny wrapping that knife at all. And I dont see the knife (in the photos) dirty enough to be used as a kitchen knife and in the kitchen block (where it was noticed it was missing from, early on the arrival home of the husband).
If the knife was said to be only used (by him) a few times per year.

It also seems from the reports the knife belonged to PJC and not a knife regularly used 'in the kitchen' - so why was it in the kitchen block? Im not aware of men who have their very own knife in the kitchen block.
From what I gather, the knife was bought separately - not in a set of knives.

SMH. Read More…

He tells detectives that he used the knife only two or three times, later changing this to two or three times a year, the first of a series of contradictions in a long and rambling interview in which he revealed that all wasn't exactly rosy in the Sheerwater Parade house.

Report
Summary section:

However, Mr Cook heard Ms Cook's phone in the house. At that time he also noticed a knife missing from the knife block in the kitchen and became concerned for Ms Cook's wellbeing.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Laser,

I heard exactly the same description of how it feels to get stabbed on an investigation discovery show I was listening to yesterday...the victim was on her belly and said it felt like her attackers were kicking or punching her in the back, when in reality she was being repeatedly stabbed. I think that's so interesting, because in my naive or uninformed mind, I thought it would feel much different.

 

[Ausgirl]

Figgy, another thing I thought re the friend was - well, if someone wanted to sound like had not clue #1 as to what happened, he might elaborate a pile of 'wrong' details to make sure it sounded that way, if I am making sense. Cause that's a lot of mistakes.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

O

Figtree, some of the officers stated at the coronial enquiry that if it had been up to them (said in hindsight) they would have seized the board and would have subjected it to forensic examination, etc.

PS Osborn, for the record now in the coronial findings, said the board was 'big and covered in blood'. She did not instruct officers to seize the board or subject it to forensic investigation. It was too 'big' you see, and it was 'covered in blood'. So it was left at the scene. The house was released to PC 24 hours or less later. And PC said he disposed of it

Same with the plastic mentioned by PC; no tests, not seized


Board was not dragged. Big board, very cumbersome as Bardell testified. Not something he would attempt to lift, he said. But there it was on the stones. No drag marks. So if it was dragged, someone tidied the stones afterwards and covered up the drag marks. If it was lifted, all 150cms x 150 cms of it, weighing between 10 and 20 kilos by PC's estimation (more if it was marine ply) then it almost certainly wasn't Jenny who lifted it. Her back was wrecked. Your lifting strength comes from your back and shoulders. Weak or sore back and holding a bag of sugar is agony. So either someone fairly strong carried that board into position or someone dragged it and then covered up the drag marks. Not Jenny though as she was dying or dead




Agree

I'm sorry but it just irks the he77 out of me that someone would say they weren't going to collect a piece of evidence because it was too big. It's not like you have to carry it by hand. Or just take a sample if really it's that immovable.

 

[they'll get you]

Has anyone seen mention so far of how high off the ground the knife was? I can only find that the wound was 135cm from Jenny's heels, on her body -- but no mention of measurements taken re the knife? Or am I having another brain fart?

Certainly no brain fart Ausgirl. Did they measure the height of the knife from the ground and compare it the the wound on Jenny. Only an inch difference could make the scenario completely impossible!

What was the knive wedged into? If it was an aluminium screen door and the surround, that would not have been able to support weight. If the screen door was slammed closed to secure the knive then surely Jenny's palm print would be there or more suspiciously if there were no prints.