GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #1

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Berry

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174 guests Tonight, record again, please come join us guests.

This CCTV of Jill is so lucky.
All your perceptions and knowledge are welcome, different eyes 'see' different things.

Looks like the short blonde haired perp from the back angle to me.
 

FruitTingles

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They are artist impressions from descriptions from assault victims, attacked at night, there are sure to be inaccuracies but the general look is similar, sharing various features among the three .. the mouth of 1 and 3 very similar, the nose of 1 and 2 ...


Oh yep no worries! I understand now - Thank you for that! :) Was just my opinion :)
 

Tishy

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A lot of people whose full name is spelled Gillian spell the shortened form of their name 'Jill', apparently because if they spell it 'Gill' people don't know how to correctly pronounce it - still with the soft G.

MOO
 

Public_Hysteria

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A poster questioned whether Jill smoked. There are several photos on her facebook page with her holding cigarettes and cigarette lighters in her hand. Maybe blue hoodie asked her for a cigarette and then tried to keep her attention. Most smokers that I have known will give a cigarette to someone who asks, it seems to be smokers etiquette.

Even just asking for a lighter will get the same reaction. I also wondered whether this was how their conversation started. When they enter the frame on the CCTV footage, it seems they are already walking together. He may have asked for a cigarette or lighter as a ruse, then kept following her up the street.

In saying that, I also think it's possible that he used the "someone's following you" line, as she does look back down the street a few times. This could be because she was nervous and was looking to see if there was anyone else around, but it could also be that she was trying to ascertain whether or not someone was actually following her. I'm taking these stories with a grain of salt, though. I'm not doubting that these other women were assaulted in the same area, but I don't want to assume that this is the same person that knows what happened to Jill.

I'm trying to piece together the phone call to her brother in light of this footage. I believe she calls him from just outside the store front, I think I see her standing at the very left of the frame after it seems she's left. I may be wrong, but I think I see what could be her leg appear in the frame and stay, could this be where she spoke to her brother? The male voices in the background could be people further up or down the street. It would be good to know whether the voices sounded like they were close, or whether it was just background noise.

It's also possible that she kept walking while talking to him, and was ambushed as she turned the corner onto Hope Street (and the voices were a group of people around the corner), but I believe if this were the case she would have said something to her brother. A random guy talking to you on the street is very different than coming around a corner and seeing a group of men standing around, I believe she would have said something to her brother if this were the case. Unless she was ambushed, but then, where did the voices come from? Foot traffic from the main road?

I really want to know what else was on that CCTV footage, whether it is clipped to that time frame because it's the only relevant footage that shows Jill and the MM (and potential witnesses), or whether there is something shown that they are keeping from the public. Although, if something happened in front of that store, the perp would surely realize that the police had seen it and now know exactly what had happened (or at least the start of whatever happened).

I can't shake the fact that the MM walked past the camera in the opposite direction before going back for Jill. It was a few minutes before he headed back again, where did he go? Did he have friends laying in wait around the corner on Hope Street or did it take him a few minutes to decide to go back for her? What is traffic like on Hope Street, if something had happened here, what are the chances of someone noticing?

I have so many questions. I just can't shake this case, so many possibilities. And for it to happen so close to home... this type of thing is very, very rare in Australia. People don't just go missing here.
 

pg5150

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This is a very tough case. This footage is very interesting. I had a gut feeling it was the husband but now I am not convinced. The bag planting is another strange thing, why would someone risk revisting the scene of the crime leading me to think it was TM? The video shows Jill on the phone and clearly distressed. BH is quite creepy and she seems scared trying to keep away from him. Why would you jump on the phone if you are in someone's company unless you are trying to get clear of them? We will see what pans out but I am thinking she is nearby and whatever happened has been done by a local. BH is on foot so I am thinking no car was involved and she has been pulled into a garage, house or abandoned property. We will see what unfolds but I think a lot more will come to light in the next day or two.
 

marlywings

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Even just asking for a lighter will get the same reaction. I also wondered whether this was how their conversation started. When they enter the frame on the CCTV footage, it seems they are already walking together. He may have asked for a cigarette or lighter as a ruse, then kept following her up the street.

In saying that, I also think it's possible that he used the "someone's following you" line, as she does look back down the street a few times. This could be because she was nervous and was looking to see if there was anyone else around, but it could also be that she was trying to ascertain whether or not someone was actually following her. I'm taking these stories with a grain of salt, though. I'm not doubting that these other women were assaulted in the same area, but I don't want to assume that this is the same person that knows what happened to Jill.

I'm trying to piece together the phone call to her brother in light of this footage. I believe she calls him from just outside the store front, I think I see her standing at the very left of the frame after it seems she's left. I may be wrong, but I think I see what could be her leg appear in the frame and stay, could this be where she spoke to her brother? The male voices in the background could be people further up or down the street. It would be good to know whether the voices sounded like they were close, or whether it was just background noise.

It's also possible that she kept walking while talking to him, and was ambushed as she turned the corner onto Hope Street (and the voices were a group of people around the corner), but I believe if this were the case she would have said something to her brother. A random guy talking to you on the street is very different than coming around a corner and seeing a group of men standing around, I believe she would have said something to her brother if this were the case. Unless she was ambushed, but then, where did the voices come from? Foot traffic from the main road?

I really want to know what else was on that CCTV footage, whether it is clipped to that time frame because it's the only relevant footage that shows Jill and the MM (and potential witnesses), or whether there is something shown that they are keeping from the public. Although, if something happened in front of that store, the perp would surely realize that the police had seen it and now know exactly what had happened (or at least the start of whatever happened).

I can't shake the fact that the MM walked past the camera in the opposite direction before going back for Jill. It was a few minutes before he headed back again, where did he go? Did he have friends laying in wait around the corner on Hope Street or did it take him a few minutes to decide to go back for her? What is traffic like on Hope Street, if something had happened here, what are the chances of someone noticing?

I have so many questions. I just can't shake this case, so many possibilities. And for it to happen so close to home... this type of thing is very, very rare in Australia. People don't just go missing here.

There's a very good post by FruitTingles from a couple of pages back describing the traffic on that road.

I'm from Country Victoria. Sydney Rd is unbelieveably busy even at the latest of times at night. I remember in January of this year while my partner was in hospital at the Brunswick Private Hosp on Moreland Rd (which is not all that far from this area of which she disappeared), I would be driving to and from there daily as I was staying nearby in Parkville. Sometimes I would not leave the hospital until midnight/1am and would drive down Sydney Rd, I can tell you now that, that street does NOT stop. It was crazy, like there was so many more people on the street around midnight onwards. I remember opting to take the train from nearby where I was staying and my partner's cousin suggesting that it would not be a good idea because of the area and it having a "reputation" for not being 'safe' or as such to walk alone at night, especially being female. Anyway with how busy it clearly was, IMO, Someone HAD to have seen JILL and can identify the male in the 'blue jumper'. :banghead:


Also...with the call she made to her brother..it was mentioned about him hearing male voices in the background...wouldn't he have also been able to hear the passing traffic if Jill had made the call from that road??
 

theowlsgo

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The video shows Jill on the phone and clearly distressed.

Can I ask what makes you think she looks clearly distressed in the video? I always find cctv footage hard to make out so I'm wondering what I wasn't able to see.
 

ellabella

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His very fast purposeful walk remindsme so much of one of hubby's clients(young adults with autism/acquire brain injuries) in the general sense, weare in Canada) that my mind keeps wandering to a similar but differen scenario to the main theory.

Re: phoning husbands. Mine goes to bed at 830. Turns his phone off. Unless I was going to fake a phone call it wouldn't be to him. Has nothing to do with our relationship or anything else
 

theowlsgo

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I can't shake the fact that the MM walked past the camera in the opposite direction before going back for Jill. It was a few minutes before he headed back again, where did he go? Did he have friends laying in wait around the corner on Hope Street or did it take him a few minutes to decide to go back for her?


Yeah I found that particularly creepy- was he walking up and down looking for someone to grab? Or was he walking up and down asking people for money or something else?
 

Public_Hysteria

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This is a very tough case. This footage is very interesting. I had a gut feeling it was the husband but now I am not convinced. The bag planting is another strange thing, why would someone risk revisting the scene of the crime leading me to think it was TM? The video shows Jill on the phone and clearly distressed. BH is quite creepy and she seems scared trying to keep away from him. Why would you jump on the phone if you are in someone's company unless you are trying to get clear of them? We will see what pans out but I am thinking she is nearby and whatever happened has been done by a local. BH is on foot so I am thinking no car was involved and she has been pulled into a garage, house or abandoned property. We will see what unfolds but I think a lot more will come to light in the next day or two.

The bag is another thing I can't shake. I don't believe there is any way the bag was missed in the initial searching, so the only possibility is that it was planted at a later time. The question is why? Jill was obviously seen nearby to here, so if it is to throw the police of the case I believe the perp would have planted it somewhere nowhere near where the actual crime took place.

On the other hand, a random stranger could have found the bag and took it with the intention of returning it (or stealing anything of value in it), then freaked out when they saw Jill all over the news and decided to put it near where they found it so as not to draw suspicion to themselves. But why dispose of it there? I would hope that if the person who put it there had nothing to do with Jill's disappearance, they would come forward and let the police know where exactly they had found the bag to begin with. The only reason I could think of for not coming forward would be a guilty conscience (not necessarily because they knew what had happened to Jill, but maybe because they had picked the bag off the street with the intention of stealing its contents), but the question again is, why place the bag here? Why not throw it away? To place the bag here would surely be a much more risky move, as you would expect the area was being watched and examined to find clues relating to Jill's disappearance.

Another possibility is that the perp put it there as a big "F" you to the police. Trying to show they're smarter than LE, and they have the upper hand. To me, this makes the most sense, but it scares me because if this is what happened, we have a very brazen perp on our hands.

The bag's definitely a wild card in this case. No reason I come up with makes any sense at all.

Oh, and WELCOME TO WEBSLEUTHS!!! :greetings:
 

Brunswick_Kiwi

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Did he have something in his hand when he came back? Maybe he was picking up takeaway or going to an ATM? Most likely, he's just dodgy.

I was lurking last night before I joined today (I think I missed my welcome post :)), and there were several posters adamant that it was TM. I haven't seen them back since the footage was released and the police said he wasn't a suspect. Have I missed their posts? I'd be interested to see if the new info has changed their mind.

This whole thing has freaked me out. My girlfriend is a nurse and often comes home on public transport after a late shift. We are close to a Main Street, but so are the Meagher's. Very scary.
 

nursebeeme

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reminder: if you are posting a link to a twitter it must be main stream media only; this means news stations and reporters. Thanks everybody.
 

LegallyBrunette

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Two thoughts about the handbag-
It was planted there after police search by perp
It was found by passerby who later realised it's significance and returned it.

As many have said on forums, no way it would have stayed there from early Sat morn until police found it, someone would have had it away.
 

voxpop

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Does anyone know exactly where this laneway is where the handbag was found?

These are apparently pictures of the laneway:

http://www.theage.com.au/photogalle...d-to-jill-20120924-26gi2.html?selectedImage=0

But I can't find anything that resembles any of those buildings when I look at Hope St on Google Maps Street View? I'm wondering how far from Sydney Road the laneway is. I too am of the opinion that someone probably found it, took it, realised it was part of a murder investigation, freaked out and put it back.
 

voxpop

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Also, it was reported that shoes were found in Ovens St and Victoria St back on Monday or so? Has it now been determined that they did not belong to Jill?
 

LegallyBrunette

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Did he have something in his hand when he came back? Maybe he was picking up takeaway or going to an ATM? Most likely, he's just dodgy.

I was lurking last night before I joined today (I think I missed my welcome post :)), and there were several posters adamant that it was TM. I haven't seen them back since the footage was released and the police said he wasn't a suspect. Have I missed their posts? I'd be interested to see if the new info has changed their mind.

This whole thing has freaked me out. My girlfriend is a nurse and often comes home on public transport after a late shift. We are close to a Main Street, but so are the Meagher's. Very scary.

Whatever is the truth here, it shouldn't change anyone's level of awareness for their personal safety. I'm sure many will agree that 'there for the grace of God'. Unfortunately these days more than ever you have to be vigilant about this and not let your guard down. Many times I've seen young women staggering home in the early hours, sometimes alone. Young men too. They are so vulnerable. There are some very unpleasant people in this world.
 

pg5150

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Can I ask what makes you think she looks clearly distressed in the video? I always find cctv footage hard to make out so I'm wondering what I wasn't able to see.
I really think she seems nervous by her mannerisms. He gets closer, she backs away and stops until there is distance between them. I know she was drinking but she seems to be fumbling with her phone, this seems more like a reaction from being nervous than alcohol.
 

pudd

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Does anyone know exactly where this laneway is where the handbag was found?

According to this graphic in The Age (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/brunswick-alone-and-after-dark-20120925-26ig6.html)

620_map2.jpg
 
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