Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #16 *Arrest*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Greater Than, Aug 30, 2017.

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  1. tmar

    tmar Well-Known Member

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  2. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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  3. Amalgam

    Amalgam Well-Known Member

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    He may well have little angry man syndrome, but he is well over 5ft 3in tall. Perhaps Karen was in high heels in the photos your thinking of?

    As mentioned in a post of mine in a much earlier thread, I bumped into Borce once at Highpoint, the day after Karen’s funeral.

    He isn’t tall, but he didn’t strike me as short either & I’m by no means tall at about 5ft 11in... he is somewhere between about 5ft 9in and my height - unless he has special platform shoes like Kim Jong-Un.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  4. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    Don't we know it!

    Accused Melbourne wife-killer Borce Ristevski is set to find out whether he will stand trial charged with murdering his wife Karen Ristevski.
    Magistrate Suzanne Cameron is due to deliver her committal decision on Thursday.


    Ristevski committal decision due in Vic
     
  5. UndiscoveredTruth

    UndiscoveredTruth Well-Known Member

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    Amalgam, are you the member who bumped into Borce coming out of an elevator? Borce's demeanour didn't come across anywhere near how the media were portraying him to be, at least to you and your son? He appeared to be very kind and polite, and you got no bad vibes from him at all. In fact, you didn't even realise it was him at the time as he appeared to be completely the opposite to how the media portrayed him. Was it you, Amalgam?

    It's just interesting me, is all. I'm not sure how someone is supposed to act when having camera's and microphones shoved in their face and the reporters asking inappropriate questions, at a time when your spouse is missing and/or has been murdered. Let's just say BR replied with a "Of course not, why would I kill my wife--that's a ridiculous question to ask"....it would leave him open to more questions being fired at him and with that, more for the media to write about and more for the public (to pick his words and actions apart.) Better to stay quiet and ignore all questions and reporters when approached. Does he look angry when being approached by the media, yes and for a very good reason, in my opinion.

    I think BR is guilty, of what, I'm not 100% certain, but he definitely knows what happened to Karen. I'm not 100% certain she didn't actually leave the house by foot that morning. We did get word from a very honest, reliable member that apparently, Karen was seen out walking that morning and the person who saw her did contact the police but for unknown reasons they (Police) didn't appear very interested at the time it was reported. I can't let that very important bit of information slide. I do remember a search of the surrounding streets happened a while into the investigation so perhaps the Police did eventually take more interest into that particular sighting. We did get curious and a lengthly discussion took place at the time, regarding drains etc. (Sorry, I wish my memory wasn't so bad and I could recall more :( )

    So today is the day we will find out if there is enough evidence for BR to stand trial, right? I believe there is enough evidence but I do hope they have more, alot more incriminating evidence to produce at the trial if there is one.

    Sorry for the long wided post everyone--just had a few things I needed to get off my chest! All MOO.

    Justice For Karen!!!!
     
  6. Oz Jen

    Oz Jen Well-Known Member

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    UT - part of your post reminded me of something I saw while driving locally a few months back. A woman was walking quickly on the opposite side of the street (no footpath). She appeared agitated. She was well-dressed, had a handbag but no shoes. Struck me as odd because it was a cold morning. So yes, it can happen but I think it's rare.
     
  7. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    Does anyone know of a precedent that a jury can overturn a manslaughter charge to murder?

    Mr Ristevski’s lawyers have conceded there is sufficient evidence to proceed to trial on a manslaughter charge, but they want the murder charge dropped.

    David Hallowes SC asked that a lesser charge be considered.

    “The submission we make is that the evidence is not of sufficient weight to support a conviction on the charge of murder, and therefore Mr Ristevski should be discharged on that charge,” he said.

    Judge to hand down findings on Ristevski
     
  8. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    I think that a jury has to decide their verdict on the exact charges laid. They cannot arbitrarily say that they don't think he is guilty of this, but they do think he is guilty of that ('that' being something that he has not been charged with).
    If that is what you mean.
     
  9. sosocurious

    sosocurious Well-Known Member

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    No idea really.
    Can the judge say the murder charge stands and it is up to the jury after hearing further evidence at trial, to decide if it is murder or manslaughter?
    As was the case with GBC and Tostee. I think.
    That would require Borce telling the jury his version. Explaining how an accidental killing occurred. Wouldn't it?

    The prosecution say
    “This isn’t just an accidental killing that ends up in the death of his wife and he decides, through panic or fear, to dispose of her body. He goes to significant lengths. It goes well beyond that.

    “It starts within a very short time after the death of Karen Ristevski and doesn’t end there. It goes on and on and on.”

    Judge to hand down findings on Ristevski
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  10. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    Thank you SA so could the opposite apply that it goes to murder charge but be downgraded to manslaughter by the jury?
     
  11. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    The difference is that Tostee was charged with murder and manslaugher, that allowed the jury to make a decision of either/or (or neither).
    Baden Clay's murder charge and conviction was reduced to manslaughter, by the Court, on appeal. Then reinstated as murder by the High Court.

    The charge needs to be brought on by the Prosecutor/Court. The jury cannot just make a random decision all by themselves, about something that has not been charged.

    That is my understanding, anyway.
     
  12. Fuskier

    Fuskier Well-Known Member

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  13. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    No, if he has not been charged with manslaughter (as well). They would need to find him guilty or not guilty of murder alone.
     
  14. UndiscoveredTruth

    UndiscoveredTruth Well-Known Member

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    Hi Oz Jen. Did you glance at your watch and take a mental note of what time it was? I'm asking because I have found myself, (when coming across similar sightings, or rather, any sighting that strikes me as odd and out of the ordinary) glancing at my watch and the first chance I get, jotting it down on paper as well as day and month etc. I automatically do it, I never used to but since following cases on websleuths it has made me more aware of the importance of remembering every detail i.e. time/date/place, just in case......

    I'm thinking it happens more often than we are aware of, it's just, the woman doesn't turn out to be missing and then murdered. I remember an incident that happened last year, a couple were arguing in the main street in town. The woman appeared to be sitting on the steps of the entrance to a shop. It was after midnight. The guy was standing on the footpath leaning against a post. I watched from across the road. She got up and stormed off, she was in her pj's, no shoes. They walked into the very Hotel I was staying in, so were not homeless (it did cross my mind that was the case at first). It was not something I expected to see. Sure, couples arguing after a night out on the town, fully dressed and in many cases drunk, seen it many times before but this couple, totally different scenerio--defs, made me sit up and take notice.
     
    1968, emirates1957, Amalgam and 4 others like this.
  15. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    It's frustrating to see all the news articles are worded the same as if written by one journo and passed on.
     
  16. sosocurious

    sosocurious Well-Known Member

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    Justice Byrne said it was the prosecution’s case that Baden-Clay was guilty of murder on the basis he killed his wife with intent.

    He said the defence’s case was the accused did not kill his wife and it was a reasonable possibility she died of unnatural causes consistent with evidence: drowned, fell, died from alcohol or antidepressant toxicity or suffered “serotonin syndrome” which led to her drowning or falling.

    He said if the jury found Baden-Clay not guilty of murder, they should consider whether he was guilty or not of manslaughter.

    Category: | Herald Sun
    Gerard Baden-Clay murder trial: Judge tells jury manslaughter an option, prosecutor says accused wanted to wipe slate clean
     
  17. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    So, an instruction by the Court. Not something that the jury could arbitrarily decide.

    As I thought, it must be a decision by the Prosecutor/Court.

    Thanks. :)

    I wonder if this is what Borce's lawyers are angling for. And perhaps it will open a door to an appeal for them, if manslaughter is not given as an option.
     
  18. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    OK got it. Only the court of Appeal can set aside the murder finding.

    It's pathetic when you think about an accused denying EVERYTHING and then saying 'DOH oh maybe I did unintentionally kill and dispose of the body'. IMO that should be a charge of wasting taxpayers time and money.

    Former Brisbane real estate agent Gerard Baden-Clay's murder conviction for killing his wife Allison has been downgraded to manslaughter.

    The Court of Appeal set aside the murder finding, saying there was not enough evidence to prove he intended to kill the mother-of-three in 2012.

    During Baden-Clay's appeal four months ago, his lawyers argued it was possible he could have unintentionally killed his wife during an argument at their home in Brookfield, in Brisbane's west.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-08/gerard-baden-clay-wins-appeal/7009464
     
  19. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    I'm refreshing my memory as I go...

    In response to the appeal court's ruling, Acting Attorney-General Cameron Dick said he was seeking legal advice on whether the Court of Appeal ruling could be challenged.

    "I have requested legal advice about the prospects of success on an appeal against the decision of the Court of Appeal involving Gerard Baden-Clay," he said in a statement.

    "Once that advice has been received and considered, a decision will be made as to whether an appeal should be lodged.

    "The Attorney-General must make a decision on any possible appeal within 28 days."

    In the judgement handed down on Tuesday, the Court of Appeal said while Baden-Clay lied about the cause of scratches on his face and tried to hide his wife's body, there was a reasonable hypothesis he was innocent of murder.

    It could not be ruled out that there was a physical confrontation in which Allison fell and hit her head, the ruling by Chief Justice Catherine Holmes, Justice Hugh Fraser and Justice Robert Gotterson found.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-08/gerard-baden-clay-wins-appeal/7009464
     
  20. Oz Jen

    Oz Jen Well-Known Member

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    Hi UT - I absolutely did look at my watch and make a mental of the time, date and location! (Good old WS training, eh!) There was nowhere for me to turn the car around but glancing in my rear view mirror I saw the woman walking across a nearby garden towards the house. I made a note of the time and address, too.:D
     
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