Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #16 *Arrest*

[kiwilaura]

No, I am not asking for MSM reports of Borce's lawyer's intentions. Those I have read. I am asking for an example of a trial (not an appeal) where the defence have requested a downgrade of the charges without admitting some client culpability. I am not seeing this action as a generally accepted procedure.

To me, a person is charged, the defence defend against that charge. Right or wrong charge. It is the prosecution's job to decide the charge. If the charge is incorrect, it should make the defence job easier. imo

All I have seen in the past is a person(s) plead guilty to a lesser charge. I have not seen a charge debated in court, without client culpability being admitted.

I don’t have an example of it happening before, though I am sure the magistrate will shut it down immediately if it is not legally allowed.

Note of course that this is a committal hearing, not a trial as worded in your post.

 

[tmar]

maybe she had to be 21 to be a stakeholder with input into the company... under 21 any papers she signed on behalf of Envirovision would be invalid...….

Let's see what this now creates: was this a lousy pressie??????

 

[Trooper]

It is difficult for me to believe that Karen knew , in regard to Envirovision. She would have completely done her block, as it handicapped her tremendously, and it would make no sense that she, Karen, would continue to run the business.. she might as well have stayed home in bed and let the chips fall where they may.,

It is hard to conceive that she would continue to get up, get to the shop , work in it all day, come home if she knew the whole thing was being siphoned off to Envirovision. Of which , she was neither a director, nor stakeholder, nor partner. She was nothing, in the context of Envirovision.

 

[tmar]

There are a few you tube videos about it Trooper, they don't make a lot for the number of hours put in. Most just do it to supplement their income.

Someone here, recently gave us info on rules for Uber drivers.
He/she stated they were an Uber driver.
Perhaps they'll respond.

 

[Armchair snoop]

I don't know any Uber drivers, at least, well enough to ask them how much they earn a day, on average.. anyone have any insight into this?

I ask, because I am curious how Borce managed to avoid working for wages, or even running a profitable business himself.. His daily routine seems a bit aimless, the Uber driving being a recent activity.

The debt in the family is rising exponentially, compounded by the debt in BellaBlue running concurrently. I doubt if Uber driving bought in enough to feed the 3 of them, much less pay the bills associated with the running of a large house, electricity, phones, gas, rates, water, repairs, trips overseas, and so on.

And paying out for Sarah, schooling, transport, meals out, clothing , play money etc.

Yet Borce just ambled about while this hideous debt was increasing daily.. how did he do that?

I've been thinking about the debt as well. Borce is 54 years old, the debt they hold is what, about 1.4 mil. If he intends to retire at 65 then he only has 11 years to pay off a 1.4 mil debt. Good luck with that.

 

[Trooper]

I've been thinking about the debt as well. Borce is 54 years old, the debt they hold is what, about 1.4 mil. If he intends to retire at 65 then he only has 11 years to pay off a 1.4 mil debt. Good luck with that.

the crazy thing is, Karen's death does not make the debt evaporate. It remains, increasing day by day. When Borce gets parole, around 2045, the debt will still be there..

 

[Armchair snoop]

It is difficult for me to believe that Karen knew , in regard to Envirovision. She would have completely done her block, as it handicapped her tremendously, and it would make no sense that she, Karen, would continue to run the business.. she might as well have stayed home in bed and let the chips fall where they may.,

It is hard to conceive that she would continue to get up, get to the shop , work in it all day, come home if she knew the whole thing was being siphoned off to Envirovision. Of which , she was neither a director, nor stakeholder, nor partner. She was nothing, in the context of Envirovision.

Yes and why was she locked out? Was it because she intended to go elsewhere? What were the reasons she was locked out? Crickey, she was his wife and partner.

 

[tmar]

I've been thinking about the debt as well. Borce is 54 years old, the debt they hold is what, about 1.4 mil. If he intends to retire at 65 then he only has 11 years to pay off a 1.4 mil debt. Good luck with that.

Plus for the last 6 months, no Uber driving to pay debts.

 

[Armchair snoop]

the crazy thing is, Karen's death does not make the debt evaporate. It remains, increasing day by day. When Borce gets parole, around 2045, the debt will still be there..

Don't they get paid about $10.00 a day to make number plates.

 

[tmar]

the crazy thing is, Karen's death does not make the debt evaporate. It remains, increasing day by day. When Borce gets parole, around 2045, the debt will still be there..

And GROWN ++++

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Just bringing Oona's post over from thread 10 - post 550.

"um, and on the Wednesday morning, um, she just went upstairs, um, and then came downstairs and just went out through the garage, ahh, she might have just walked down the street or just to clear her head because that was the last thing she said to me, um, I’m gonna to go and clear my head, um, can’t do it here."

IF it had been a honest and true explanation for Karen, leaving the home, I would fully understand the situation: I'm the director of Bella Bleu and just got told by my husband (or just have read in a "mysterious" letter), that I have from the day after tomorrow to deposit the daily revenue onto another account, to which I have no access. Very nice surprise. I would feel ousted by husband AND daughter, as also controlled by them. No wonder, there was yelling and screaming! And going ballistic would have been a normal reaction to such a sneaky attack (by "loved ones", one of them I had a "special bond" to).
I would have left the home, the husband and the daughter and the dog - if I had been able to ....

 

[Trooper]

Yes and why was she locked out? Was it because she intended to go elsewhere? What were the reasons she was locked out? Crickey, she was his wife and partner.

It is tempting to think she was locked out because she had already presented her self as unwilling, or recalcitrant to adhere to Borce's theories re debt diminishment.

That Borce had already decided that Karen would not co-operate in his plan , which perhaps was a habit of Karen's, to poo-poo Borce's idea of fiscal management and who can say she was wrong? He hasn't demonstrated any particular wisdom in this area so far in his 5o plus years..

 

[CalliopeGG]

Murder is defined as the unlawful and intentional killing of another human being by a person of sound mind, who has no legal reason to do so. The degree of blame therefore separate out charges of manslaughter and murder, with manslaughter having two degrees of blame, voluntary and involuntary

In a murder,the prosecution must prove that the accused had the intention to kill, and intention to inflict grievous and serious bodily harm, or had a reckless indifference to human life. The accused must have been able to foresee that their actions - or indeed a failure to act - would result in the death of the victim.

Voluntary manslaughter means the intentional killing that is found with mitigating factors. That is, a lack of premeditation, and the presence of provocation like rage, but other factors must apply. This may include someone who was in an argument, became enraged, and lashed out at the victim, killing them.

Involuntary manslaughter involves and unlawful killing without intent, for example in a car accident caused by reckless driving or committing an illegal or dangerous act. The prosecution must prove that the death was caused by an illegal act or omission. an act of neglect, or a departure from the standard of care any reasonable person could expect, not occurring would cause serious injury or death.

Hope this helps. Thank goodness I learnt how to touch type.

Very helpful. Much appreciated.

 

[tmar]

IF it had been a honest and true explanation for Karen, leaving the home, I would fully understand the situation: I'm the director of Bella Bleu and just got told by my husband (or just have read in a "mysterious" letter), that I have from the day after tomorrow to deposit the daily revenue onto another account, to which I have no access. Very nice surprise. I would feel ousted by husband AND daughter, as also controlled by them. No wonder, there was yelling and screaming! And going ballistic would have been a normal reaction to such a sneaky attack (by "loved ones", one of them I had a "special bond" to).

This would be a very appropriate reply/ response, by Karen.
She should have taken Benji and left quickly, once she knew, instead of 'asking WHY'.
All this, just thoughts.

 

[Trooper]

This would be a very appropriate reply/ response, by Karen.
She should have taken Benji and left quickly, once she knew, instead of 'asking WHY'.
All this, just thoughts.

It seems she didn't have enough time to ring anyone, Aunty Pat, or someone to complain about it.. perhaps it happened very quickly..

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It is difficult for me to believe that Karen knew , in regard to Envirovision. She would have completely done her block, as it handicapped her tremendously, and it would make no sense that she, Karen, would continue to run the business.. she might as well have stayed home in bed and let the chips fall where they may.,

It is hard to conceive that she would continue to get up, get to the shop , work in it all day, come home if she knew the whole thing was being siphoned off to Envirovision. Of which , she was neither a director, nor stakeholder, nor partner. She was nothing, in the context of Envirovision.

And little only child Sarah is innocently speaking of the passion, her mother had for Bella Bleu and "no Bella Bleu without Karen" and so on.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't know any Uber drivers, at least, well enough to ask them how much they earn a day, on average.. anyone have any insight into this?

I ask, because I am curious how Borce managed to avoid working for wages, or even running a profitable business himself.. His daily routine seems a bit aimless, the Uber driving being a recent activity.

The debt in the family is rising exponentially, compounded by the debt in BellaBlue running concurrently. I doubt if Uber driving bought in enough to feed the 3 of them, much less pay the bills associated with the running of a large house, electricity, phones, gas, rates, water, repairs, trips overseas, and so on.

And paying out for Sarah, schooling, transport, meals out, clothing , play money etc.

Yet Borce just ambled about while this hideous debt was increasing daily.. how did he do that?

BUT: He had been a very nice and caring husband, who came into shop to help with things, Karen had to do.

 

[sosocurious]

Because I am a little slow and I am still not grasping why a silk that is defending a person for murdering their wife. A person who has said he had nothing to do with it...nothing. Has decided manslaughter should be the charge.

Different state.
Similar situation.
The trial sum up

Justice Byrne said it was the prosecution’s case that Baden-Clay was guilty of murder on the basis he killed his wife with intent.

He said the defence’s case was the accused did not kill his wife and it was a reasonable possibility she died of unnatural causes consistent with evidence: drowned, fell, died from alcohol or antidepressant toxicity or suffered “serotonin syndrome” which led to her drowning or falling.

He said if the jury found Baden-Clay not guilty of murder, they should consider whether he was guilty or not of manslaughter.

Category: | Herald Sun
Gerard Baden-Clay murder trial: Judge tells jury manslaughter an option, prosecutor says accused wanted to wipe slate clean

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Those little pauses that give you time to think. Like "you know, um, au, and the latest one that I really dislike, "So"

"um, and on the Wednesday morning, um, she just went upstairs, um, and then came downstairs and just went out through the garage, ahh, she might have just walked down the street or just to clear her head because that was the last thing she said to me, um, I’m gonna to go and clear my head, um, can’t do it here."

 

[Via Marple]

What a twist in the final day. I look forward to the submission by prosecution tomorrow. This might get renamed as the "End of financial year murder". Or mutiny perhaps.

BBM .... except, Borce was sole director as of March 2016.

And Karen was deceased as of 29th June 2016.

All just in time for Envirovision to absorb Warrant Brands total income at the start of a new financial year. With no-one left alive to blow the whistle on the shonky money-dealings.


Paperwork declaring Mr Ristevski had taken over from his wife as the sole director of Warrant Brands, which is linked to her Bella Bleu fashion label, was filed with the Australian Securities & Investments Commission in March.
The Australian, 12:00AM August 20, 2016

The forensic accountant may be scratching his head on why BR was doing this Envirovision... But BR might not have consulted an accountant on the debt and tax impacts... Hey his mind was about committing a fraud, so how could he trust an average accountant to know his plans?

Leaving Karen out of Environvision was significant. As FromGermany had pointed out, she would not have access to the new company bank account. Unless she decided to defraud him too by keeping the store cash takings to herself... But looks like she was not that type of personality.