Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #17 *Arrest*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Greater Than, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. steve richardson

    steve richardson Well-Known Member

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    BR pleads guilty to manslaughter but hasn't given details as to how the act was committed. The ruling was proving murderous intent was the key to the murder case (you don't need a law degree to work that out) but due to the decomposition of the body an autopsy was unable to ascertain how KR died. So BR by hiding the body effectively destroyed vital evidence which ultimately will see him serve less time than if a cause of death could have been established.
    Nothing forthcoming as to how and why he murdered KR which if known could have proven murderous intent. The determination of manslaughter was put forward with no basis from BR's legal team to support why it should be accepted.

    He hid a murder victim, lied and refused to talk to police to me thats intent to conceal a crime.

    In NZ we have had murder convictions given out with no body or cause of death established.

    Right to the end SR stuck by BR and even at committal hearing stated that BR was never agressive and was the calm one. That wasn't the body language I read when the reporter posed did you to BR. The acting should have played out slightly better.

    Never agressive and the calming influence and you plead guilty to manslaughter, that's one extreme to another.





    The finding ess
     
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  2. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    This is an interesting snippet regarding Luminol.

    The smallest trace of blood will react with luminol, giving off what is known as a chemiluminescence.
    It has even detected human blood in a hundred-year-old murder case in the US.

    Detective Senior Sergeant Charlie Agius, with the Forensic Services Group, said luminol would even react to bloodstains that may be diluted down to one part in a million.

    Police to excavate ‘suspicious’ earth alongside missing mum’s house
     
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  3. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    Why murder charge was thrown out
    Ristevski pleaded guilty on Wednesday to the manslaughter of his wife on June 29, 2016, after prosecutors withdrew a murder charge the night before the trial.

    The prosecution sought to prove that Ristevski intended to murder his wife by pointing to his actions after her death.

    They argued one would have expected him to “raise the alarm” if he had killed her unintentionally, rather than “bundle her body into the boot, drive to a remote area, conceal the body and lie about the circumstances of his wife’s disappearance to family, friends and investigators”.

    But Justice Christopher Beale ruled a lack of evidence pointing to murderous intent made it difficult to proceed with a murder charge at trial.

    “I considered there to be much force in those submissions,” Justice Beale said in his written ruling.

    “They made it difficult to see how a jury could properly find that the only reasonable explanation for the post offence conduct was that the accused was conscious of having killed his wife with murderous intent.”

    The judge ruled Ristevski could have feared the unlawful killing of his wife would “attract a substantial prison term and cause irreparable damage to his relationship with his daughter, with whom he was close”. These fears, the judge found, didn’t prove the killing was intentional.

    The couple’s finances also played a significant role in the judge’s decision, with Ristevski’s lawyers arguing their financial situation would deteriorate with Karen’s death.
    Borce Ristevski's stern warning to grieving daughter after Karen vanished
     
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  4. Edgarb

    Edgarb Well-Known Member

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    It gets "even better" when an accused who has plead guilty to manslaughter has the option to advise the court VIA THE LAWYER of the details of version of what occurred. This would be in an attempt for a more lenient sentence. But if the accused chooses this path, he is open to cross examination by the prosecution in court. (This is only my understanding from reading up). IMHO, BR will not offer a version as no one will believe it now and the prosecution would have a field day in seeking JUSTICE FOR KAREN.

    Steve, you may want to apply through FOI Freedom of Information to access SR's testimony at the Committal Hearing, I believe there is links on the Magistrates Court Victoria website.

    All IMHO.
     
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  5. Edgarb

    Edgarb Well-Known Member

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    Queensland man who twice buried wife's body gets 15-year sentence for manslaughter / ABC NEWS

    But in handing down his sentence, Supreme Court Justice Peter Flanagan rejected the version of events given to the court by the accused, Edmund Ian Riggs.

    On Monday, Riggs pleaded guilty to four counts of perjury for lying to authorities in statements and affidavits in court between 2002 and 2010.
     
  6. Edgarb

    Edgarb Well-Known Member

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    I am assuming that because Riggs gave testimony in court of his version of what occurred, he has opened up the possibilities for perjury or is this simply from written statements?

    "An affidavit is a type of verified statement or showing, or in other words, it contains a verification, meaning it is under oath or penalty of perjury, and this serves as evidence to its veracity and is required for court proceedings." Wikipedia
     
  7. JLZ

    JLZ Well-Known Member

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    Riggs did take the stand in the trial (see ABC article), but as you say he would also have been exposed to perjury charges if he lied in sworn written statements. As the trial was just recent and the charges are for statements up until 2010, I'd say it was the written statements that are the subject of the charges. Perhaps also statements at inquest, if there was one.

    Taking the stand is a different situation from having your lawyer tell your story. The lawyer isn't supposed to relay a story that he/she knows isn't true, but in most cases the lawyer's attitude would be that they're not in a position to judge that the client is lying. Anyway, client doesn't take the stand but lawyer tells the story means the client hasn't lied on oath to the court. Consequently no perjury charge.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  8. SouthernHighlands

    SouthernHighlands Active Member

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    eerily similar circumstances, however the jury in this instance was given the opportunity to determine and consider manslaughter or murder:

    Man who killed his wife in heated argument then buried her is jailed for 15 years | Daily Mail Online


    'A sudden and violent' death: Man who killed his wife during an argument and told her family she was missing while burying her corpse in a shallow bush grave is jailed for 15 years for manslaughter

    He says he pushed his wife during a row in 2001 .. then twice buried her remains which weren't discovered until 2016, also sentenced for multiple perjurys and interfering with a corpse

    It was only during his trial last month that he admitted Ms Riggs, who was 34 at the time, had died in September 2001 at their home in Redcliffe, north of Brisbane, after he pushed her in response to her spitting at him during a heated argument.

    Riggs claimed that when he realised his wife was dead he 'panicked' and attempted to cover his tracks by burying her body in a shallow grave on the outskirts of Caboolture, 50km north of Brisbane.

    A few years later he dug up her remains after seeing heavy machinery at the site, and reburied her the family home.

    Ms Riggs' remains were found in 2016 by the new owner of the home who had began excavating in preparation for building a retaining wall.

    However, on Thursday Justice Flanagan labelled his post-offence actions as 'out of proportion' and refuted his version of events.

    'The extent of steps you took to distance yourself from your wife's death is out of all proportion to you pushing your wife during the course of an argument and her hitting her head on a bedpost,' Justice Flanagan said

    'I determine you are to be sentenced for manslaughter on the basis Patricia Riggs died a violent and sudden death at your hands in September 2001.'

    ……………Justice Flanagan also stated that Riggs had been found guilty of manslaughter rather than murder because the jury were unable to determine if he had intended to kill his wife.

    Prior to his trial, Riggs had repeatedly lied for years, and even told their two children that their mother had run away.
     
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  9. SouthernHighlands

    SouthernHighlands Active Member

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    Why Ristevski can stay silent after confessing to killing Karen


    “Borce Ristevski may never have to explain how he killed wife Karen after pleading guilty to her manslaughter. ………The admission also means details of how and why Mrs Ristevski’s life was cut short may never be revealed. ………“He has the right to silence still, so even at his plea he doesn’t have to give evidence,” Nick Papas QC explained. ………The maximum penalty for manslaughter is 20 years, but according to experts Ristevski could get far less.

    …..9News has spoken to some of the deceased’s relatives and friends, who are now tasked with drafting their victim impact statements for the plea hearing on March 27.

    …Melbourne lawyer Justin Quill, who has followed the case from the beginning, told A Current Affair he believed the reason Ristevski pleaded guilty was in an attempt to lessen his sentence.

    "It may be that he thought he was going to be found guilty by a jury if he went to trial, so he's taken the easy option," Mr Quill said.

    "If he wants to lessen his penalty, he'll have to tell the court at some stage and in some format what happened, and how it happened, and why it happened. "Whether the family and friends of Karen believe that is another thing, of course."

    During earlier court hearings, Borce Ristevski's lawyers had argued the murder charge should be abandoned and sought a pre-trial committal hearing on the lesser charge of manslaughter, because no jury could find there was murderous intent. But prosecutors pushed hard for a murder trial, saying Ristevski's deceitful behaviours after the killing gave rise to the required intent. They said the way he concealed the body and lied to family and police were not the actions of a man who accidentally killed his wife.

    The magistrate said the evidence was largely "circumstantial" but taken at its highest, the case was strong enough for a jury to convict him for murder.

    In emotional testimony at the committal hearing, the couple's daughter Sarah Ristevski said her father was never aggressive towards her mother.”



    My thoughts are prayers with the family and relatives writing the impact statements. A truly awful time for them: with some resolution and relief due the guilty to manslaughter plea, yet still no clarity as they do not know what happened to Karen and why. I do hope that BR will find it in his heart to finally step up and be honourable and compassionate and disclose the totality of what occurred, thereby giving the family a proper opportunity to have the circumstances revealed and then hopefully enabling them the ability to take time for full grieving and eventual healing of the no doubt terrible ache in their hearts.
     
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  10. Via Marple

    Via Marple Here to learn how devious minds work

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    From my limited knowledge of Riggs' case in recent media reports, I think that should be the way to go for BR, get to a trial and make him take the stand, and let a jury decide.

    It is too easy for BR.
     
  11. JLZ

    JLZ Well-Known Member

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    You can't make an accused person take the stand, even at trial.
     
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  12. tmar

    tmar Well-Known Member

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    BR suddenly isn't going to be truthful.
    This 'manslaughter' charge is only for a lesser sentence.
    Whatever he may utter, is a load of rubbish.
    How many times, has he uttered rubbish before?
    I hope in prison Justice will be served daily.
    MOO.
     
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  13. Puggle

    Puggle Well-Known Member

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    Apologies that I haven't read previous post for a very long time.

    I'm disappointed this case won't ever be put before a jury. So we can hear testimony of others.

    I will never have it fully resolved if Borce did in fact murder Karen.

    He has put up his arm to claim second degree....however this will never give the "when" "how" or "why's".

    Or for me.... the "who did it really".
     
  14. SouthernHighlands

    SouthernHighlands Active Member

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    court document link to the decision

    DPP v Ristevski (Ruling No 1) [2019] VSC 165 (15 March 2019)

    "
    17 The accused highlighted:
    (a) the lack of any evidence of motive;
    (b) the lack of any history of violence from the accused towards his wife;
    (c) the close relationship between the accused and his daughter, Sarah Ristevski;
    (d) the evidence regarding the finances of the Ristevskis, which in the accused’s submission could not sensibly lead to an inference of murderous intent rather than a lesser intent. The accused submitted that the financial situation of the Ristevskis was likely to deteriorate if Karen Ristevski was killed given that she was in effect the “heartbeat” of the “Bella Bleu” clothing business which they operated. Her importance to that business was a motive for the accused not to kill her;
    (e) the absence of any evidence regarding a physical confrontation between the accused and his wife, including no witnesses hearing any “yelling and screaming” on the morning of 29 June 2016; and
    (f) the general lack of any evidence going to premeditation in this case, supporting the inference that the accused’s conduct was spontaneous and that his post-offence conduct was consistent with a panicked reaction. For example, the accused did not switch his phone off until 11:09am on 29 June 2016, 26 minutes after he had been driving his wife’s car and he did not switch off his wife’s phone until 11:40am. Further, there was photographic evidence of a couple of shovels left in the garage, which did not appear to have been used in any effort to bury Karen Ristevski.

    ......
    33 In the present case, the prosecution conceded that there was no evidence of a motive to kill or cause really serious injury. The prosecution proposed to adduce expert evidence that the accused and Karen Ristevski were in serious financial trouble as a result of their failing clothing business, ‘Bella Bleu’, but that evidence was only to be adduced for context, as explaining how an argument between the accused and Karen Ristevski on the morning of 29 June 2016 regarding the state of the business might have escalated.

    34 The evidence to be adduced by the prosecution in this case would show that the accused and Karen Ristevski had been married for over 20 years and that there was no history of physical violence on the accused’s part towards the deceased (or anyone else), apart from the accused’s own admission of pushing his wife away on occasions if she “got in his face” in the course of an argument. The evidence to be adduced by the prosecution would also show that while the financial stresses on the accused and the deceased may have been increasing, they had subsisted for some time. Sarah Ristevski, the accused’s adult daughter, lived at home during this period and whilst she apparently observed arguments between her parents about financial matters, those arguments never escalated to a point where the accused even threatened physical harm to Karen Ristevski. Nor was there any evidence from any other source of the accused threatening to harm Karen Ristevski.

    35 Against that backdrop, I turn to the parties ‘submissions. In the course of discussion, the prosecution submitted that the accused’s post-offence conduct was inconsistent with him having unintentionally killed Karen Ristevski. The prosecution submitted that one would have expected him to raise the alarm if he had killed her unintentionally, not bundle her body into the boot, drive to a remote area, conceal the body and lie about the circumstances of his wife’s disappearance to family, friends and investigators.

    36 It seems to me that underpinning the prosecution’s argument was the notion that if the accused had unlawfully but unintentionally killed his wife he was not likely to have viewed it as grave wrongdoing which might be attended by grave consequences for him. The accused’s counsel submitted, on the other hand, that the accused could well have feared that the unlawful killing of his wife would attract a substantial prison term and cause irreparable damage to his relationship with his daughter, with whom he was close. I considered there to be much force in those submissions. They made it difficult to see how a jury could properly find that the only reasonable explanation for the post-offence conduct was that the accused was conscious of having killed his wife with murderous intent."
     
  15. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    bbm
    It seems to be out of the ordinary for a wife murderer, to stress "the close relationship to his daughter". Maybe, KR "got in the face" of her daughter ( ... apart from the accused’s own admission of pushing his wife away on occasions if she “got in his face” in the course of an argument) and BR "pushed away" KR in a much harder way than usually to protect the apple of his eye (and his secretly business partner). Maybe, KR lay in the home between 8am/8.30am, injured to a certain degree; dad quickly sent Sarah on her way to Uni/workplace saying, that he would care for Karen, who was still alive; when SR was gone around 8.30am, BR "finished" the matter and finally ended the annoying eternal dispute over money/debts/inheritance/divorce/business partnership/etc. When SR returned in the evening, BR perhaps insisted, Karen had disappeared on her own despite some injuries and would come back. Since that point, SR wondered/doubted but didn't know the truth, maybe. IMO MOO of course.
     
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  16. Edgarb

    Edgarb Well-Known Member

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    HOW BORCE RISTEVSKI BEATS THE MURDER RAP / The Courier Mail

    "There were also the Google searches on a family iPad mainly about how Google tracks mobile phones and one about how police can detect traces of blood."

    If this Google search did occur as reported, with the utmost respect to Karen and all who loved her including Steve, unfortunately BR must have caused injury to Karen that included external bleeding.

    There are many reasons for external bleeding, including bleeding from the ears due to strangulation. Also trauma to the head:

    WHY DO HEAD INJURIES BLEED SO MUCH?
    Health University Utah

    Your scalp can bleed profusely from even a minor cut. Many tiny arteries and veins serve the individual muscles and skin on your head. Some of these blood vessels lie deep within your skull, while other superficial arteries and veins are quite close to the surface of your skin.

    All IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  17. Liadan

    Liadan Well-Known Member

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    Really loving the lively discussion here, but wow to the journalist with the stainless steel resolve... 'Did you kill Karen? " directed at Borce.... what would be running through his mind? Oh my Fing GOD, people are on to me already? No no that is just someone playing with me, of course I couldn't have done it - I am the grieving husband supporting our beautiful daughter!
     
  18. Liadan

    Liadan Well-Known Member

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    The charade- it blows me away! Its worse than GBC!
     
  19. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    Hiya its great to see you Liadan. Who’d ever think anyone could outdo GBC’s performance eh? Well we’ve found yet another snake in the grass.
     
  20. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    Great catch Edgarb about the how police can detect traces of blood.

    Maybe we’ll never know how Karen was murdered but I certainly would like to know if the cadaver dogs were ever let loose in that house and car.
     
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