Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #2

Discussion in '1990's Missing' started by inkpink, Apr 3, 2019.

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  1. Sophie-Renee

    Sophie-Renee Well-Known Member

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    Someone mentioned much earlier.. (it won't let me insert quote) about a business name of ferdinand Nicholas Ernest Marie remakel... This surely has to be the fernand in Luxembourg. Isn't his partner called Marie? Not sure when they were married, but he could have known her in 75-80.
     
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  2. Sophie-Renee

    Sophie-Renee Well-Known Member

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    Someone mentioned much earlier.. (it won't let me insert quote) about a business name of ferdinand Nicholas Ernest Marie remakel... This surely has to be the fernand in Luxembourg. Isn't his partner called Marie? Not sure when they were married, but he could have known her in 75-80.
     
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  3. Itsapuzzle

    Itsapuzzle Well-Known Member

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    Here's the quote Sophie-Renee - click on the #687 and it should show the attached image.
    "Check This Very Weird Find!
    Was searching for info on Remakel in Luxembourg & found business permits for company named Fernand Nicolas Marie Ernest Remakel (image attached). Dates from 1975 & 1980, but the name is so eerily similar to the initials Marion chose. Could that possibly be just a coincidence? I think there has to be some connection.

    Page 35/thread 1.
    Meligator, Aug 8, 2019
    #687

    No, Fernand and Marie-Josee are not married. Fernand was born on 2 December 1947 - ooh, it's his birthday tomorrow, he'll be 72 - I think he was still with his first wife at that time, 75-80 he would have been 28 in 1975 and 33 in 1980 - his parents names are Ernest and Marie, still wondering if it's a family business, or he added his parents names to it. Has anyone found any proof that Marie Ernest are actually Fernand's names? I could only find his birth announcement as Fernand Nicolas Remakel. Probably neither here nor there, but would be interested to see some proof of that. The FNR initials are indeed curious, I agree, but what is lacking at this point is proof of anything, that's the problem.
     
  4. StarrChance

    StarrChance Well-Known Member

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    The podcast started out well with what seemed like the best intentions, but increasingly has been concerning. Complaints about the police investigation, particularly appalling was mentioning they left out documents for Sally to see. Was that necessary, great way to damage a officer career that was trying to help you.
    Remakel debacle!
    Half a podcast about the Levison case, not similar at all.
    Also Sally emotional/mental state at times seems frayed understandably but could some of these journalists tactics be detrimental for her?
     
  5. Itsapuzzle

    Itsapuzzle Well-Known Member

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    Favourite Fernand quote ... "Do you find that normal?" "Do you find that normal?" Love it. Brilliant. It's screaming out to be on a T-shirt, going to get one made up .... and no, I don't find it normal Fernand, strange people recording everything you say, saying you've been to Australia when you haven't, filming you at your home, putting everything you say on a podcast for millions to listen to, getting an "alleged" bitter ex-girlfriend to say they don't like you to millions ... no, I'm with you Fernand, I don't find it normal. Do you find that normal?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  6. KiwiNZ

    KiwiNZ Well-Known Member

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    If Fernand is involved he could just as well be the victim or the target of a proposed scam. Who’s to say some one did not use his name, get Marion to change her name to similar initials so the person could target Fernand’s fortune, doesn’t look like he is short of a penny or need to kill for more. May be if they had got Fernand to speak to them he may have well said he was a victim of a scam in the past, that odds things had happened in the late 90’s, may also explain his lack of trust in people ( not that I think that was his reason for not speaking to the podcast) .... but he isnt speaking because the podcast had already scripted his part, no matter how many times they said he wasn’t a suspect they backed it up with he was.... worst investigative journalism
     
  7. Mel 1303

    Mel 1303 Well-Known Member

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    ETA- got to check a fact- will repost promptly
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  8. Garyb

    Garyb Active Member

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    You say he doesn't seem short of a penny, well he certainly wont be after he has sued channel 7 for deformation !!!!
    As a professional football player even those days he would have been exceptionally paid.
    Why would he go to all the trouble of placing the add, luring Marion to change her name go to europe to meet him then send her back to Australia to empty her bank accounts in cash to give to him. All this by not ever coming to Australia.
    Its nonsense.
     
  9. Mel 1303

    Mel 1303 Well-Known Member

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    Grrr, edited my post but forgot to copy first!

    Searching ancestry from a different angle- Remakel appears not only as a surname, but as a Christian/middle name. So if there is a connection between an actual person and Marion, the Remakel part of their name might not be their surname. They may, for example, have been given their mothers maiden name as their first or second name. There was a search done of passports coming into and out of the country with the surname Remakel, but would it come up if it was part of their Christian/middle name? What about if it is not someone travelling in and out? Someone born here, of Luxembourgish descent, who has Remakel as part of their name, but not their surname? The person who placed the ad in le courier could have been placing a dodge ad using the name of someone from home they didn't like- as a code for "its time to rob the bank", or anything. If I was in Lennox Head, looking for love, I don't know that I would place a lonely hearts ad in a French newspaper predominantly distributed in Sydney.
     
  10. Mel 1303

    Mel 1303 Well-Known Member

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    AND to keep all interactions with him secret in the years between answering the advert and going to Europe, all the while dating/ hoping to date other men in her local area.
    ETA- even if dating other men was a front for a much longer plan, Marion seems by all accounts to have been very hurt by the lack of reciprocation in her affection for the pilot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  11. Mel 1303

    Mel 1303 Well-Known Member

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    There has been a few references to Marion's past travels- I haven't made the right notes, will have to go back and check. Has anyone come across Marion's past international travel history?
     
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  12. Mel 1303

    Mel 1303 Well-Known Member

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    A number of the US Remakel's seem to have served in the US navy. What passport checks happen for visiting sailors, does anyone know? Would checks go through customs, or through the military?
     
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  13. Mel 1303

    Mel 1303 Well-Known Member

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    Another question (sorry, full of them tonight)- Marion left her CV at her son in laws grandparents place, for Sally to send to her if she decided to teach while overseas- the kind of visa she left on did not permit her to work, so she couldn't take her CV with her. In the episode where Marion's initial employment at TSS was discussed, Carrie Allwood described Marion's references as excellent, and all written references. Does anyone know about the references? I wonder if she took those with her, as well. I think this is an additional reason why Marion chose to change her name to something completely out there, but to keep the "Marion" name in there. All her references were about Marion. Marion Brown, Marion Wilson, Marion Warren, Marion Barter- the surnames may change, but Marion is the constant. If Marion were planning to seek private teaching employment, with a wealthy family, or an alternate community, the name on the references could still match then name on the passport.
     
  14. madoodi

    madoodi Well-Known Member

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    Hi all. I hardly post on here but I do keep up to date with the thread and the podcasts. I just had a few questions/observations: (and I do apologise if this has been covered before)
    • Do we know if Marion was visiting someone in Tunbridge Wells? For me it just seems a less likely place to visit at the start of your travels.
    • This might be usual to many, but I know that when my mother travels, I know her basic itinerary and airline She is flying with, hotel name, where she is visiting first etc. It seems Sally only had the postcards and the phone calls to go by. To me that sounds like someone who does not necessarily want people to know their whereabouts or plans
    • The fact that Marion changed her name without anyone's knowledge (that we know of), I find really bizarre, not to mention the choice of name.
    • To me it appears very planned/well thought out. Sometimes we just don't know people as well as we think we do. For some reason she wanted to "disappear" and be seemingly untraceable.
    • The amount of luggage she had is also significant I believe and that she wanted to only be taken to the bus stop not directly to the airport... gives me the impression she have been meeting up with someone before her flight potentially to store some of her luggage for her return. She may have then travelled with this person to the UK.
    • The mystery man that she was seen with at the servo I think may be the person that she either traveled with and/or returned to.
    Still, I think someone close to her may have known her plans and someone knows what has become of her. The case is very confusing with the name change , passenger card link to Luxembourg, bank withdrawals etc. I hope, though, for Sallys sake that she just gets some info that her mom does not wish to be contacted/is ok. I could not imagine not knowing where my mother was for over 20 years.

    Apologies for the rambling, everything is MOO.
     
  15. Garyb

    Garyb Active Member

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    And he would have had to be carrying on this long term liason without his partner noticing, all the letters phone calls, emails involved and explain his sudden windfall of nearly $200k. Finding an excuse to go to see her when she arrived in the UK etc (and thats assuming he never came to Australia)
     
  16. Mel 1303

    Mel 1303 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Madoodi!
    • As far as I have heard, Marion was travelling on her own to Tunbridge Wells. She told Sally of some little old ladies she had met, but no mention at all of a travelling companion. I get the impression Sally believes there may have been one- the focus on the passenger list of the out going and incoming flights has been a constant- Sally is looking for a potential travel companion.
    • I have never had a friend or family member travel without all those details being left with family. Marion left no real details of her travel plans, and no records as to where her shipping container was being stored.
    • The name change is bizarre- but I believe strategic. She was planning this a long time. I am not convinced she was planning to leave forever, but she had a plan.
    • I agree, this is well planned, well executed. There were some major exposures, such as her returning to the country, and withdrawing the money, but if everyone had followed the law as they should have, her privacy would have been protected. A few big things were exposed, but everything else seems to have worked. 23 years on, she still owns her secret.
    • She may well have been meeting someone at the airport that she didn't want identified- but I believe part of the reason for taking the bus is that she didn't want anyone to know about the new name she was travelling under.
    • I don't know about mystery man. She was a single woman in her 50's- she might just have wanted a night out with a man without having to answer the questions of other people.
    The thing is- the police did tell her that her mother did not wish to be contacted and was ok. It hasn't been enough. I don't think anything but sighting her mother will satisfy Sally- and if Marion doesn't want that, sadly Sally has no right to it.
     
  17. Mel 1303

    Mel 1303 Well-Known Member

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    One thing I would like to comment on from the last conversations episode. Luke Glover apparently went racing down on Marion's last day to stop her from stealing school equipment. Sally sounds, very rightfully, offended and upset by the suggestion. I can only imagine how Marion felt, and I agree, it fits in with why she was so particular about having school property returned. When I heard this, I thought:
    1. What on earth happened between Luke Glover and Marion? Friends to this kind of enemy? Whatever happened at TSS, I suggest the answer lies in why the relationship broke down so badly.
    2. Luke Glover may well (I believe more likely) have said something along the lines of "I better go to make sure she isn't stealing our property". Not an accusation, so he cant be accused of anything, but besmirching her name, regardless. Bullying behaviour. Just another low blow before she left.

    While I am thinking of Luke Glover, does anyone have any explanation as to why Carrie Allwood thought he was an exclusive brethren but his widow says he was not? An exclusive brethren would be highly unlikely to be teaching at all, and certainly not in a school affiliated with the Anglican Church. So why did staff think he was?
     
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  18. KiwiNZ

    KiwiNZ Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think she took anything with her that would suggest she was looking for employment, I remember Sally stating that Marion knew it was illegal and she could not be caught at customs with a cv or work related info on her. You would be turned around straight away
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  19. Mel 1303

    Mel 1303 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for clarifying! I wonder if Sally remembers those documents being with her CV (could have been part of the CV), or whether they were in the shipping container.
     
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  20. KiwiNZ

    KiwiNZ Well-Known Member

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    Wondering if she did marry a Remakel or someone with EU status if she applied for EU passport and left again on that. I travel using both my nz and uk passport but carry them both in case I am questioned on my entry, not sure you can do that these days but you could in the 90’s.
     
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