Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #2

Discussion in '1990's Missing' started by inkpink, Apr 3, 2019.

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  1. Itsapuzzle

    Itsapuzzle Well-Known Member

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    Looking through Trove with the search words "Le Courrier" and "phone", it's bringing up all the Les Petits Annonces consecutively ..... slowly working through them when I've got time ... but this just occurred to me ..... could Marion have placed an ad to meet someone overseas, h'mm, that's possible, isn't it ... not necessarily the Le Courrier Australien, maybe some other international paper, or even something web-based. Just something that suddenly crossed my mind ....
     
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  2. poppypopcorn

    poppypopcorn Member

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    The point about "As far as I have heard, Marion was travelling on her own to Tunbridge Wells. She told Sally of some little old ladies she had met, but no mention at all of a travelling companion" is key for me and I've mentioned it before on this thread. It's a very odd choice of holiday location from a UK perspective. I did ask on the FB page if anyone knew whether there was a specific reason for choosing Sussex and no response.

    Also to reiterate the work thing - Marion would not have had the right to work in the UK. No government funded school or registered private school would have employed her. She may have been able to pick up work as a private governess but this really isn't a "thing" here. Plausible cover story, but totally impractical in real terms. I'm also pretty sure that anyone in the teaching community in Aus would be aware that you can't just take yourself off to another country and start work.
     
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  3. Intriguedbyintrigue

    Intriguedbyintrigue Well-Known Member

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    Good point! Keeping Marion somewhere in her name would allow her to use her written references. Nanny/au pair/home day care would be an informal way she could continue to work (here as well as overseas). I wonder if any cautious parents ever called the referees to check the validity of those written references??
     
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  4. Sophie-Renee

    Sophie-Renee Well-Known Member

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    Ahh my mistake, I forgot they weren't actually married. I knew he had been married previously but couldn't remember when. I think I am starting to lose the thread with some things. Where did the Ernest come from and the Nicholas as names of interest? I seem to remember it was something to do with Fenand's name and someone remarking on the parallels with that and the FNE in Marion's name change. So actually- the only things we get from the ad for sure is the key letter "F"- the rest of the letters we cannot then assume belong to this individual. On top of the fact, it is no neccessarily his real name. All very confusing!
     
  5. Sophie-Renee

    Sophie-Renee Well-Known Member

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    Something I have also noticed is on ancestry, when it comes to European countries or countries more likely to speak French, Remacle seems to be most popular and REMAKEL appears much more in the US. Could this Remakel come from the US and be of French descent? (It is almost as if it was REMACLE and then the Americans changed the spelling, when the Europeans came over!) Or indeed a completely different name. But, I wonder if the surname is actually spelled "Remacle" and when the ad was placed it went in as Remakel due to a miscommunication. I know the newspaper is French and would surely pick up and understand the spelling out of a name if needed, but maybe they didn't do it phonetically and somehow it went in as the Remakel instead of Remacle. The dodge ad is interesting and kind of linked to the idea is the possibility that Remakel is an anagram of something else- whether a name or a word.
     
  6. Intriguedbyintrigue

    Intriguedbyintrigue Well-Known Member

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    Sally kindly responded to the questions I sent through (thanks for the suggestion SunnyNZ!). I didn't think to ask if it was ok to copy the response to here - I feel like I should ask before attaching a screenshot??

    Sally isnt sure how fluent Marion's French is but commented that she could get by. So it is unconfirmed whether Marion could read in French. There seem to be lots of retold stories of Marion singing/speaking in French and dressing up with a beret but nothing of her reading French (ie story book with class).

    Sally doesnt think Marion was a union member and doesnt remember if Marion told her family of her actual departure date in advance.

    Sally also said theres nothing to suggest Marion had a redirection set up w Australia post. The redirection was hand written on a few things and Medicare bills were c/o Lesley. This was new information for me! From the podcast I had assumed there was more mail going to Lesley (ie bank statements), but this suggests not. Marion must have set up a Po Box

    Sally thinks Marion may have used Kent removals (based on the truck) but doesnt remember the packing boxes.

    Marion spoke of her return. She talked of buying a unit at main beach when she came back.
     
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  7. Kelliepat

    Kelliepat Member

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    Sally lived with Marion in 94/95 and Marion was definitely not married .
     
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  8. Itsapuzzle

    Itsapuzzle Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for putting up that information Intrigued, and very nice of Sally to answer all your questions, most excellent. Interesting about the handwritten mail redirection on the envelopes. So, would that mean Marion left a forwarding address of Lesley's with the new tenants/real estate agent .... we know that she put Lesley's address for the teachers renewal, but handwritten redirection on the envelopes is interesting. Ah, Kent Removals, that shouldn't be too hard to track down .....
    Spontaneous random thought .... I wonder if a search in the newspapers, websites, has been done for Marion's old phone number, it might pop up somewhere, just a thought.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  9. KiwiNZ

    KiwiNZ Well-Known Member

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    possible another red heron but I noticed that on the same day as the "Remakel" ad, a Marie had also placed an ad looking for a companion. It would make sense that they may contact each other, they sound like a match on paper. Having trouble locating the name LLimos in France, I think its a Spanish name.

    FRENCH, 50 years old, blonde-eyed
    blue, 1.52 m slim, youthful look,
    loving healthy and simple life, seeks,
    sober man speaking French even
    Interests. Write to Marie LLIMOS, 221
    Wallace-St-Pierre Fountains, 84500
    Fix this text
    BOLLENE, France.
     
  10. Itsapuzzle

    Itsapuzzle Well-Known Member

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    Yes KiwiNZ, maybe they did correspond. I just had a streetView look at that Bollene address, just being a sticky-beak .... h'mm, narrow road .... but wait, what I was going to say is I'm noticing in quite a few of these ads the address given is the Le courrier address for the correspondence, and that "they will transmit" it on, so it must have been either a free/or paid service they offered to accept and forward the mail. So it's interesting this mystery Monsieur Remakel opted for the Lennox Head PO, etc ....
     
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  11. KiwiNZ

    KiwiNZ Well-Known Member

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    long shot but I was trying to see if this could possible be the Marie he is now with ?
     
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  12. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

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    oooh interesting rabbit hole!
     
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  13. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone else on here follow the FLEK/Lori Ruff case? For that case we had some additional separate threads set up to house key info/clues that needed to be frequently referred back to. Things like timelines, photos, copies of documents, etc. You couldn't comment on them, it was just a repository to house info so it didn't get lost in the discussion threads.

    Marion's case feels so similar, does anyone else think it would be beneficial to have something like this? If so, do we know how to go about getting permission to set this up?
     
  14. thunderwombat

    thunderwombat Active Member

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    That and the Joseph Newton Chandler case are fascinating to me. I'm still amazed that they have been solved.

    In 1997 it wasn't hard to get birth certificates, in my state anyway. A printed form from the post office filled with the name of the person, year of event, registration number, declare that it was for family history research purposes, and an official certificate would be sent. Many local libraries had a genealogy section which had cd-roms with indexes of births deaths and marriages. If a person did want to take on a new identity it would not be a difficult matter to use the death index to find someone who had died as a baby, then buy that person's birth certificate and use it for yourself. Impossible these days, you have to provide proof of who you are and why you want it.

    Didn't Marion, or Florabella, give two different birth dates to bank officials? I heard or read that somewhere but can't remember where. My first thought was that she had given the birth date of a different person whose identity she was using. Finding a birth certificate from the year you were born would be no problem but getting the exact date of birth near impossible.
     
  15. Sophie-Renee

    Sophie-Renee Well-Known Member

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    I assume you mean an ad also in La Courrier? I just wondered because all I have seen is a picture of the ad that F. Remakel posted. Did you manage to access an archive for that issue online? It would be interesting to see. The name Marie is also very like Marion. Intersting the name Marie keeps popping up.
     
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  16. Sophie-Renee

    Sophie-Renee Well-Known Member

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    Apologies. I just seen the original posting by Itsapuzzle in May. I never realised someone had managed to find a copy of this before the Remakel thing was even discussed. Great sleuthing, Itsapuzzle!
     
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  17. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

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    Reported my post to admin to get an answer on this.
     
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  18. thunderwombat

    thunderwombat Active Member

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    In Europe, especially Catholic countries, many families will name a daughter after the virgin Mary. Variations on the name are Marie/Maria/Marina/Mia/Marianne and several more. Very traditional families will give all of the daughters the first name Marie but the girls will go by their second given name, Anne, Louise etc. Both my grandmothers were Marie, several aunts and cousins are also, with it either a first or middle name, many add it as a confirmation name as well.
     
  19. KiwiNZ

    KiwiNZ Well-Known Member

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    yes this advert for companionship was the only other advert on that day next to the Remakel ad. You can access the advert via trove.nla.gov.au and do a search on Remakel
     
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  20. Mel 1303

    Mel 1303 Well-Known Member

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    I followed that on closely. If Lori hadn't kept the lock box, no one would have ever identified her, in my opinion. Certainly, she wouldn't have been identified by anyone looking from the life she left behind- the clues were with the new identity.
     
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