Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[Itsapuzzle]

Yes, I agree about the shipping container not being found meaning someone else was involved. And the money. You just can't carry it onto a plane.

This is so silly, but it is one theory I am currently entertaining... I think Marion's money was funnelled into timeshare/retirement property investments. It might explain why Marion said she was considering downsizing her home to buy something closer to the beach (she was already seduced into the scam). And also why:

• a 'Remakel' worked at Trenwest (a timeshare company) between 2001 and 2004
• a random Remakel family from Luxembourg allegedly has endless international property investment companies with potential links to the Panama Papers
• some people surrounding the case also ended up working in timeshare/retirement property investment
• some locals (Graham Patrick Higgins) were convicted for defrauding people out of their timeshare/retirement property payments
• several high profile fraudsters (Paul Joseph McMahon, Goran Markovic) were around there at similar times
• a foreign man living in the area would be compelled to place an ad in the paper, 'seeking stylish and classy woman with view to marriage'.

If you were interested in scamming an Australian in 1997, the mid east coast was the place to be. It was a hotbed of fraudulent activity.

If you want to know more about the Panama Papers (and the world of financial fraud), check out the movie The Laundromat with Meryl Streep.

However, I still think Marion was miserable and compromised at school, and whatever was going on there pushed her into an even worse situation. They may or may not be linked. But both can be true at the same time.

Wow, I'd completely forgotten about that interesting bit of info Peralta ....... "a 'Remakel' worked at Trenwest (a timeshare company) between 2001 and 2004" How interesting - hope we find out some more about that. Great points there.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

burgerIcon


Mark and Faye Levison, the parents of Matthew Levison, attended the first day of the inquest, to lend their support.

The Coroner will attempt to work out the reasons for her disappearance, whether the police conducted a thorough investigation and whether Marion is alive or dead.

It's behind a paywall.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Nothing there yet of course re Marion, as the Inquest is still taking place, but here is a link to the NSW Coronial Findings.

Coronial findings and recommendations

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I remember going into a bank, back then and being told I couldn't withdraw more than $500 a day.
I said, but I need to pay my rates and it was something like a thousand dollars.

Even now, I think $5000 a day would get you noticed.

However, if I worked at a bank, I would definitely remember a customer coming in every day for 3.5 weeks to withdraw $5000 cash, and draining an account of about $100,000. That would stay with me. Forever.

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

So many posts to wade through what strikes me is all the missed opportunities police had to verify whether occurrences were indeed Marion in concrete evidence.

-airports have always had cctv due to the security requirements obviously, and at the early reports no airport footage was attempted to be accessed by police. this wouldve been invaluable as couldvr confirmed if marion indeed herself arrived back in Australia, if someone else was using her passport, if anyone met her at the airport and her body language.

-no proper investigative statements with bank employees names that said they say marion etc seemed to be recorded so no one could ever go back and reinterview or reinvestigate these witnesses

-phone records were never investigated or traced which could give information about exactly calls were coming from and now these records wouldnt exist

-did police investigate the doctors prsctice where her medicare card was used and get statements from the staff there and ask if they could identify marion?

All these missed opportunities that could provide solid information…

 

[Deleted member 249471]

According to Sally, a former Commonwealth Bank employee told her that by simply withdrawing $5000 for just THREE days, particularly at a branch that was NOT the customer's usual branch, would trigger the bank to complete a Suspicious Activity Report.

It should have been done immediately. The Police also should have called the bank immediately and the SAR plus a missing persons report should have alerted both Bank and Police that something was very suspicious and wrong.

But neither of these seems to have been done. There was a clear break from protocol at both. WHY?!

Think of a case today... the first thing police do is check bank activity to see where the person might be at, and if someone is draining their account or making uncharacteristic purchases. It's always been done this way. But Byron Bay apparently DGAF about Marion.

Looking forward to the part of the inquest that elaborates on both these deficiencies.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I "think" they're now saying that her medicare card was used at an optometrist.

An optometrist who was recorded by Medicare as consulting Ms Barter in Grafton in 1997 is also due to give evidence at the inquest.

-did police investigate the doctors prsctice where her medicare card was used and get statements from the staff there and ask if they could identify marion?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re investigations over the years, I think they just couldn't be bothered.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

You know what’s also telling?

The very first Commonwealth telebanking employee Sally spoke to over the phone IMMEDIATELY realised something was very wrong and it’s why they gave Sally more info than they normally were allowed to. It’s why Sally went straight to Byron after the call. Everyone at that point could see there was a problem.

Yet Byron Bay bank and police responded with just, “nothing to see here… move along”.

No. One inadequate person could be a coincidence. But two? At the two most crucial locations? That’s a concerted effort to conceal, me thinks. The bank and police station were literally just steps around the corner from each other. Should have been resolved in an instant, had they wanted to or even tried.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think it was just plain laziness, not some conspiracy.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I understood that from what you said, Tootsie. Loud and clear. it's a healthier viewpoint too. I commend you for it. I am far too old and jaded.

Not in any way trying to persuade you. It's just another viewpoint... when I put it together with the well documented fraudulent activity, that staff from that very branch, a that very time, were CONVICTED of doing, it's hard for me to ignore the neon signs pointing in that direction.

It's kinda like saying I saw Peter walking by your house suspiciously on the day your house got broken into. Coincidentally, Peter went to jail for burglarising a house near yours shortly after. It may not have been Peter that robbed your house, but it's a damn good lead and worth investigating, at the very least.

A crooked cop, that reaped the benefits of Peter’s loot however, probably wouldn't be bothered investigating it, I think. Just speculating.

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

I "think" they're now saying that her medicare card was used at an optometrist.

An optometrist who was recorded by Medicare as consulting Ms Barter in Grafton in 1997 is also due to give evidence at the inquest.

very curious if he could identify her etc

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Inquest Day Two by Paige Cockburn, ABC

Witnesses:
Betty Brown - former director, Salvation Army's family tracing unit
David Martin - officer in charge in 1997, Colonial State Bank, Ashmore
Graeme Smith - Commonwealth Bank investigator

Summary:
Police never contacted the Commonwealth Bank investigator and records are long gone. CBA investigator thinks it's unusual Marion vanished yet left $14,000 in her account. He hasn't seen that before.

Salvos claim they spoke to 'Police missing persons' who claimed they spoke to 'Security at Colonial', who told them it was definitely Marion who withdrew $80,000 on 5 Oct 1997, and she spoke of 'starting a new life'. But Colonial now claim they never had Security.

... So, Salvos just passed on the info they were given
... and one of the other two passed on bad info/a lie.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

You are right, Peralta. There are many things that could have happened. I did wonder when they caught that bank employee guy up there.

Then there was the case of some bank employee woman who was taking money from an elderly woman's account. She befriended her and went to her house and killed her.
Bank teller jailed over elderly customer's murder

Not to do with Marion but just goes to show the kind of things that can happen, even if it's not a common occurrence.

Not in any way trying to persuade you. It's just another viewpoint... when I put it together with the well documented fraudulent activity, that staff from that very branch, a that very time, were CONVICTED of doing, it's hard for me to ignore the neon signs pointing in that direction.

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

Inquest Day Two by Paige Cockburn, ABC

Witnesses:
Betty Brown - former director, Salvation Army's family tracing unit
David Martin - officer in charge in 1997, Colonial State Bank, Ashmore
Graeme Smith - Commonwealth Bank investigator

Summary:
Police never contacted the Commonwealth Bank investigator and records are long gone. CBA investigator thinks it's unusual Marion vanished yet left $14,000 in her account. He hasn't seen that before.

Salvos claim they spoke to 'Police missing persons' who claimed they spoke to 'Security at Colonial', who told them it was definitely Marion who withdrew $80,000 on 5 Oct 1997, and she spoke of 'starting a new life'. But Colonial now claim they never had Security.

... So, Salvos just passed on the info they were given
... and one of the other two passed on bad info/a lie.

thanks for the link, just highlights the laziness or sloppiness of police as no bank records were looked at and were long gone as stated

 

[Deleted member 249471]

This means we now know for sure that Marion had a CBA account AND a Colonial account. Sally only had the CBA details Marion gave her to deposit car sale money into.

We know CBA had $5000 withdrawn every day for 3.5 weeks in Byron Bay and 3 days in between in Burleigh Heads. I am going to estimate they withdrew 6 days a week.

We only know about just one $80,000 withdrawal from Colonial on 5 Oct 1997, as that's what Salvos was told. Colonial Ashmore was Marion's regular branch, so maybe that's why they were able to drain the account in just the one day?

This gives us an estimate on how much cash Marion had:
CBA $105,000
Colonial $80,000
CBA(Aus)/Barclay(UK) left in account $14,000

According to inflation estimates, it's about $330,000 in today's money.

Inquest Day Two by Paige Cockburn, ABC

Witnesses:
Betty Brown - former director, Salvation Army's family tracing unit
David Martin - officer in charge in 1997, Colonial State Bank, Ashmore
Graeme Smith - Commonwealth Bank investigator

Summary:
Police never contacted the Commonwealth Bank investigator and records are long gone. CBA investigator thinks it's unusual Marion vanished yet left $14,000 in her account. He hasn't seen that before.

Salvos claim they spoke to 'Police missing persons' who claimed they spoke to 'Security at Colonial', who told them it was definitely Marion who withdrew $80,000 on 5 Oct 1997, and she spoke of 'starting a new life'. But Colonial now claim they never had Security.

... So, Salvos just passed on the info they were given
... and one of the other two passed on bad info/a lie.

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

also wondering if any investigations were conducted into her stay at novotel upon her apparent return to Brisbane. id cards, credit cards wouldve been required to check in? wouldve been possibly security cameras in thw foyer and room access cards depicting times of entry and exit from rooms. also how did she get to nobotel , by taxi? uber and the brisbane airport train didnt exist. if ut was taxi the job passenger name and details wouldve been saved by the taxi company.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

It also tells us Marion might've been alive (and in Ashmore!) on 5 Oct, but was not able to contact Owen for his birthday on 18 Oct

Even if 'Marion was definitely seen' on 5 Oct (which I'm not convinced she was), it still doesn't mean she was seen/located after Sally submitted missing persons report on 22 October.

If a report is made, you have to go look for that person at that time! It's not good enough to say they were seen 3 weeks earlier!! Something may have happened to them in that time!!! That's the point of a missing person's report; they're missing now. You're supposed to make contact now.

So in this particular aspect of the case, Police failed to do their job, regardless of how careless banks were earlier during withdrawals.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Exactement!

So in this particular aspect of the case, Police failed to do their job, regardless of however careless banks were earlier during withdrawals.

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

If a report is made, you have to go look for that person at that time! It's not good enough to say they were seen 3 weeks earlier!! Something may have happened to them in that time!!! That's the point of a missing person's report; they're missing now. You're supposed to make contact now.

So in this particular aspect of the case, Police failed to do their job, regardless of how careless banks were earlier during withdrawals.

hit the nail on the head imagine going to the police now and reporting your family member missing but being told its ok we think we saw them 3 weeks ago. laughable.