Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[Seriallyaddicted]

On Conversations they mentioned this and i'm pretty sure they said the investigation keeps going while they are waiting for the inquiry. That was my understanding anyway.

Ok thanks

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

One thing that raised my eyebrow on the most recent episode was when Sally said her father said to her on her wedding day just before she got married that she should look out for her mother because she might come along. Sally said she got upset by the comment as it made her think of her mother which is totally understandable.
Her fathers comments could have totally just been a silly thing to say which is most likely the case but another part of me thought this would be something that a person involved in her disappearance would say - like Chris Dawson where they try and make out that the person is still alive.
Most likely nothing but raised my eyebrow!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re her father saying that, he was most likely hoping against hope that his daughter was still alive and also hoping that if she was alive there is no way she would miss her daughter's wedding.
So I don't think it was a silly thing to say at all. I imagine he had got his hopes up that the wedding would bring Marion back to them.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Just checked the Marion Barter podcasts, thinking there might be a new episode and realised that I had forgotten about the bonus Coversations episode that was released last Thursday.

About to listen to it now.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

Re her father saying that, he was most likely hoping against hope that his daughter was still alive and also hoping that if she was alive there is no way she would miss her daughter's wedding.
So I don't think it was a silly thing to say at all. I imagine he had got his hopes up that the wedding would bring Marion back to them.

“Hoping against hope that his daughter was still alive” I take it you mean ex wife, not daughter? It was his ex wife.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh I'm sorry. I was thinking it was Marion's father, Sally's grandfather.
I didn't listen to the podcast that mentioned this til today when the first episode was released to the general public and well after I posted the above.

Actually knowing that it's Sally's father still leaves me feeling it wasn't a silly thing to say at all.
I think it was something most people would say under those circumstances.
It is sad that it upset Sally though.

It is so confusing with some of us getting the episodes early and some of us getting them later.

 

[vivienbee]

One thing that I have always wondered about and I'd like to know if anyone else has any thoughts on is why Marion cancelled her trip on the Orient Express.

Presumably we know that she had already bought tickets for the journey (let me know if this is not the case) and it seems that was certainly what she had told Sally that she planned to do in Europe and it seemed like something that she had dreamed about for a long time. If, for some reason, this was simply a cover story for her doing something else in Europe, it seems strange to me that she would even bother to tell Sally that she had decided to rearrange the dates. She could've easily just led her to believe that she was still doing that.

I don't know why but something has always just sat weirdly with me that niggles me to ask, why did she cancel it.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I don't think it was ever confirmed that she's bought tickets for the Orient Express. It was something she had said she was going to do, but that's not the same thing. If I recall, they checked with the company which operates the train and the records don't exist any more.

The inquest thing is great news - but will the information be public? I haven't much experience in these things and know that the Australian legal system will be different from ours in the UK. I know that often things are openly discussed in court but press are not allowed to report, as this might prejudice any future case. Is it really the case that when Sally is given all the evidence, they will be allowed to report it freely?

 

[Meligator]

I have a couple of questions, wondering if anyone knows:

Marion’s outbound flight was through South Korea, but we know she also stayed at a hotel in Tokyo before landing in London. Were the two stops (Korea, Tokyo) part of a normal Korean Air flight at that time? Not sure if she went Korea to Tokyo or Tokyo to Korea.

Second question, there was previous discussion of there being a discrepancy between the time Marion last called Sally (supposedly from England) & the amount of time it would have taken her to return to Australia on the date she did. Was it ever clarified if it were even possible to have called Sally from England on that day she called?

 

[Meligator]

So I found a flight map of Korean Airlines for 1996 (so possibly different when Marion flew), but it looks like flights from Bisbane landed in Seoul & flights into London, left from Seoul. So why was Marion writing letters from a hotel in Tokyo? Korean Air flies to Tokyo, but that wouldn’t have been an en route stop. Maybe flight was diverted or some other explanation. But doesn’t seem like a regular route would go through Tokyo.


Korean Air worldwide network, 1996

 

[Estelle]

So I found a flight map of Korean Airlines for 1996 (so possibly different when Marion flew), but it looks like flights from Bisbane landed in Seoul & flights into London, left from Seoul. So why was Marion writing letters from a hotel in Tokyo? Korean Air flies to Tokyo, but that wouldn’t have been an en route stop. Maybe flight was diverted or some other explanation. But doesn’t seem like a regular route would go through Tokyo.

View attachment 261798
Korean Air worldwide network, 1996

I once flew Sydney-Tokyo-Amsterdam with JAL. Could Marion have flown Brisbane-Seoul-Tokyo-London with two different airlines?

 

[Meligator]

I once flew Sydney-Tokyo-Amsterdam with JAL. Could Marion have flown Brisbane-Seoul-Tokyo-London with two different airlines?

Passenger card is corrected from England to S. Korea, as place of debarkation. I’m not sure the standard practice if switching planes, but this could be consistent with her flight ending in S Korea & then her having a separate flight plan for Tokyo - Heathrow (vs one multi stop ticket). Her letter to Sally (on a Narita stationary), does describe some experiences in the East, including dealing with luggage. Perhaps she wanted to check out Japan etc, but also seems odd given that KAL flies from Seoul to Heathrow (no reason to switch airlines/cities etc)

 

[poppypopcorn]

The main reason for multi-stage journeys back then was to save money. It was often cheaper (for example) to fly to the US from England via Amsterdam, Paris or Frankfurt than direct. Yes it added time but that's what we all did as students or young professionals in our early 20s. Same with flights to the Far East - a common route from the UK used to be London - Moscow - Tokyo because it was cheaper than going direct. This was long before the Gulf was a hub. Flights to Aus from the UK were always via somewhere like Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Bangkok. And yes, common to use multiple airlines to get cheap deals.

But from what we're told, Marion wasn't a hard up student trying to cut costs to a minimum.

 

[KiwiNZ]

There was discussion on this Japan visit, I think it was on the previous podcast, Sally was perplexed as to why her mum would take a flight from Seoul to Japan, it wasn’t a connecting flight, she would have had to transferred her bags herself etc.. not something you would really opt to do when there was a JAL flight direct to Japan. Incoming passengers card to the UK would be interesting

 

[Estelle]

Did Marion have a stopover in Seoul or Tokyo? Otherwise, what was the point in going to those places unless it was the cheapest fare she could get.

 

[Meligator]

Did Marion have a stopover in Seoul or Tokyo? Otherwise, what was the point in going to those places unless it was the cheapest fare she could get.

Her passenger card says she disembarks in S Korea. But a letter she wrote Sally is on stationary from a hotel in Narita (Japan). So guessing she got off in Seoul, flew a different airline to Narita, spent the night in a hotel, and then flew from Narita to UK. However, Korean Air, which she took from Brisbane to Seoul, flies directly from Seoul to UK. Seems like a big hassle to save a few bucks.

 

[Meligator]

There was discussion on this Japan visit, I think it was on the previous podcast, Sally was perplexed as to why her mum would take a flight from Seoul to Japan, it wasn’t a connecting flight, she would have had to transferred her bags herself etc.. not something you would really opt to do when there was a JAL flight direct to Japan. Incoming passengers card to the UK would be interesting

Thanks. I missed that discussion. But agree it seem strange.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re Japan, did she just stay overnight or was it a bit longer
. Maybe she had an interest in Japanese customs or anything Japanese, like going to a tea ceremony or some tourist attraction.

 

[KiwiNZ]

The conversation about the flight and Japan starts around 10mins into 18. Secret Nuptials.

 

[Meligator]

Sally talks about her mom leaving little hints or breadcrumbs, but I think the opposite could also be true. Maybe Marion used the Narita stationary for the specific purpose of misdirecting away from her flight to Seoul. Without seeing the passenger card, no one has any idea she flew to S Korea. It wasn’t even mentioned on the passenger card until a (possible) customs officer scratched out England and wrote S Korea. In fact, we can’t say for sure (I don’t think) that she flew in to London. Could she have really flown from from Tokyo to Luxembourg, for example?