Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[TheOracle66]

I said this before,(pages ago) and I will say it again........
NSW Police - Major Fail!
If you have followed the case, as I have, then you will know that Marion has never been sighted by the NSW police.
They have done nothing to find her, and they are not helping her daughter to find her.

To be fair to police, we don't know all the evidence police have and until it is released we can't say they have failed.

 

[sunnynz]

It would have been better if the podcast was made after the file is release because as lot of details are probably more accurate in the file. One thing I will say though, is that Sally and her mother were obviously not close. If they were a lot of the recent searches conducted would not have been necessary, ie real estate, legal will, location of storage items and the fact that the redirection of mail went to Lesley and not Sally. All strange.

Do you really think there would be any chance of the files being released without the podcast having happened first? The publicity of the podcast will be shining a spotlight on the whole case.

I don’t personally find it surprising that Marion would use Lesley as the contact rather than her daughter, especially if she was trying to hide her plans from her family. Sally was only 19 too remember. I think it’s very hurtful to pass comment on the closeness of a mother daughter relationship based on what we as the public know about what is already a set of very unusual circumstances. Unless there’s more information that you’re privy to?

 

[TheOracle66]

Do you really think there would be any chance of the files being released without the podcast having happened first? The publicity of the podcast will be shining a spotlight on the whole case.

I don’t personally find it surprising that Marion would use Lesley as the contact rather than her daughter, especially if she was trying to hide her plans from her family. Sally was only 19 too remember. I think it’s very hurtful to pass comment on the closeness of a mother daughter relationship based on what we as the public know about what is already a set of very unusual circumstances. Unless there’s more information that you’re privy to?

Just my observation and my experience with my own mother who I am very close too and know that I am the first person she goes to and that was even when I was a teenager. <modsnip - discussing Facebook comment> As for the files being released, this is a legal matter not a podcast matter. The podcast is also a consistent one -eyed view that Marion is dead and had been murdered and I find it strange that this is really the only view they are interested in. The fact all three keep saying someone stripped Marions bank account bare even though it was most likely Marion who took her own money and stating someone used the passport Florabella to come in to Australia, which was also most probably Marion. Another problem I have with the podcast and news items is "Marion was married to Johnny Warren"well she was also married to two other men and both marriages were lasted longer. I have actually stopped following this case on facebook , podcasts and the news now.

 

[dotr]

July 7 2019
https://7news.com.au/news/the-lady-...ery-of-missing-teacher-marion-barter-c-200259
"Barter, then 51, went missing in bizarre circumstances in 1997.

Gold Coast teacher Marion Barter went missing in 1997.Image: Supplied
Her disappearance came shortly after she:

• abruptly resigned from the private school where she had won the Queensland Teacher of Excellence Award the previous year
• was seen in a car at a fast-food drive-thru with an unidentified man
• uncharacteristically asked her daughter's boyfriend to hurriedly leave her home, without apparent reason
• went to England, purportedly just for a holiday

Marion Barter with her daughter Sally Leydon.Image: Supplied
Deepening the mystery are these established facts:

• $80,000 was siphoned from her bank account over three-and-a-half weeks in Byron Bay
• This occurred in the period immediately after her passport was used to re-enter Australia in August 1997
• Barter formally changed her name to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel
• A 2013 Facebook message by a 'Clark Hunter' suggested 'Natalia' was alive but would never be seen again

Missing persons registers
For years, Leydon had erroneously believed her mother was included on the Australian Federal Police (National) Missing Persons register, which would have required police to actively investigate the disappearance.

But in recent years she learned Barter's name had never been on the National register at all, and had been taken off the NSW Police missing person database in 2011."

Marion Barter with daughter Sally prior to her disappearance.Image: Supplied

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://7news.com.au/original-fyi/t...line-of-marion-barters-disappearance-c-200848


The Lady Vanishes: The timeline of Marion Barter's disappearance

The team has constructed a timeline in the hope it may trigger more leads.

 

[tempcoops]

I'd l

The whole thing just doesn't quite add up.

1/ Are the police only claiming the case is still open to prohibit Sally from getting hold of a copy of Marion's police file, and as a continuation of them assisting Marion to remain, by choice, estranged from her family and previous life?

2/ Is it simply just ongoing incompetence of the police and their petty defensiveness of that making them not want Marion's file being released?

3/ Is it something a whole lot more sinister, that the police are in the know about, and for whatever reason, don't want anybody else to know about?

I'd love to think it's 1/, but I think it's more 2/

 

[tempcoops]

Gary Sheehan kept saying "Marion's privacy" has to be protected. The police obviously have information to prove she is/was alive. If she is alive and knows about this pod, news articles and facebook, she will almost certainly be embarrassed. It is not a crime to disappear and start again.

This is where Bryan's insensitive comment in the latest Conversations 9 annoyed me. Along the lines of how terribly immoral it is to disappear and even moreso if you are a parent. I'm sure many share this view, but if you are involved in a podcast then perhaps you should keep those opinions to yourself. Hardly going to encourage Marion to reach out is it?

 

[JLZ]

This is where Bryan's insensitive comment in the latest Conversations 9 annoyed me. Along the lines of how terribly immoral it is to disappear and even moreso if you are a parent. I'm sure many share this view, but if you are involved in a podcast then perhaps you should keep those opinions to yourself. Hardly going to encourage Marion to reach out is it?

I don't share the view. I disappeared, with notice, from a person who knew the reason why. The person rang my other relatives and insisted that it was an emergency and that I was probably lying dead inside my home. Some people won't understand what doesn't suit them.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Conversations 11 is up.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Probably the biggest revelation in Conversations 11 was that police have stopped fighting to keep Marion's file from Sally. Hopefully once she gets a copy, even if it still contains some redactions, it will fill in some gaps for her.

Can't help noticing that the bottom appears to have fallen out of this forum's interest in the case.

 

[StarrChance]

Yes the big news is the police are going to give Sally a copy of the file, however very little was made of it and I wasn’t even sure I heard it correctly! I thought that would be bigger news than was reported. Also it seems Sally is talking to Lesley which is a good thing and she will go into that more in future podcasts.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Yes the big news is the police are going to give Sally a copy of the file, however very little was made of it and I wasn’t even sure I heard it correctly! I thought that would be bigger news than was reported. Also it seems Sally is talking to Lesley which is a good thing and she will go into that more in future podcasts.

You heard it correctly about the police backing down. Alison was the one who made the claim.

Great news that Sally has made a reconnection with Lesley and that Sally's her daughter got to meet her, perhaps for the first time.

I trust what Leslie had to say is / and will be treated with respect, as she had made it quite clear she didn't want to have anything to do with the podcast.

 

[Mel 1303]

I would like to clarify a few of my own comments. I fully and completely support the right of an individual to voluntarily go missing, and for the police to respect those view. People disappear of their own choice- sometimes for very good reasons that everyone would understand, and sometimes for very good reasons that only the individual understands.

In conversations 10, Bryan said it was morally wrong for Marion to go missing, and I stated that I agreed with him. My agreement came from the point of view of a mother and a daughter. I couldn't, as a mum, just walk away from my children. As a daughter, it would break my heart to have my mum just walk away, and never speak to me ever again. After thinking about it, I don't agree. It is not morally wrong. None of us know why Marion walked away. Her reasons may well have been very good, even if only to her.

The laws to protect people who voluntarily go missing are important, and there for good reason.

 

[Mel 1303]

Conversations 11.

Sally states that if Marion had gone missing on purpose, she didn't do a very good job. I respectfully disagree. 22 years later, no one has found her yet. Sally's reasons were that we know about the money coming out of her account, and we know about the name change. We only know about the money because someone did not do their job properly and disclosed confidential information. We only know about the name change, which Sally only found out about years later, because of the work of the police. The only other hint the family had was the phone call from the Salvation Army, where Marion's father was told that Marion didn't want contact and was cranky with Sally.

Marion thought she had months to do what ever she was planning on doing. Not calling Owen on his birthday- she had been estranged from him, and had warned family she wouldn't be in contact. It was obviously a big red flag for Sally, but doesn't seem so big to me.

Changing her name- she didn't tell anyone we know of. She only changed it on her passport. It doesn't seem like her new identity, it seems to me to be one step in a plan. She would have had plenty of documentation to obtain identification in any of the four names she had been known by. She was last supposedly known to be in Byron- which is in NSW. I wonder if she applied for a drivers licence in NSW? She had documentation to do so legally under Marion Barter, Marion Brown, Marion Warren, Marion Wilson or Florabella Remakel. You only need your birth certificate and marriage certificate to change to your married name, or your birth certificate and change of name deed. Just because she was divorced from the first two wouldn't stop her getting a licence issued in those names. She could also have easily been living under a completely different name.

The crimestoppers call- I believe it said that the body of Marion, missing from north coast is at a location in Armidale. A number of years later, Gary Sheehan followed up on this with a search. He was looking for Marion Barter. I wonder if the call was followed up by other police? Followed up at the time by Armidale police? Gary Sheehan followed up after digging through years of crimestoppers calls, with the information he now had about the name change. I cant find any information on the search Gary Sheehan conducted. The caller apparently left a name and address- the address was real, but the name not. I'd love to know what the name was, and where the search occurred. The search was apparently near the university, but that doesn't narrow it down much.

Mystery man in the car. Late at night, they went through a McDonalds drive through- not a big romantic date. Why didn't she want Chris to meet him. Very new man, just testing the waters? He was married? He was part of the new life she was embarking on?

It was sad listening to Matt Levison's dad. I understand his point about continuing to push, but there are some big differences here. It appeared obvious, sadly, that Matt had been killed from not long after his disappearance. A key suspect was easily identified. This is not the case with Marion. The little evidence there is points more to her walking away (IMO) than to murder.

 

[tempcoops]

Conversations 11.

Sally states that if Marion had gone missing on purpose, she didn't do a very good job. I respectfully disagree. 22 years later, no one has found her yet.

Couldn't agree more! You took the words right out of my mouth as I listened to it. Um. I call 22 years and still not found a very good effort. Sorry to Sally if that sounds rude, but I'd call that a successful disappearance. Not sure I'd walk the streets of my home town, but a quick dash wearing some sort of disguise with no one expecting to see me - might risk it.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

I concur with both of you regarding Marion 'not doing a very good job of disappearing'.

Marion being able to go missing for 22 years was what initially got my attention.

 

[sunnynz]

Can't help noticing that the bottom appears to have fallen out of this forum's interest in the case.

I haven't listened to all of conversations 11 yet so can't comment about that, but in response to people's interest waning here I'd say this is the first case on websleuths that I've followed where there's a podcast being published at the same time that websleuthers are sleuthing. Naturally, we all discuss the podcast episodes but it feels like we don't really do any sleuthing. So for me, it's interesting to read everyone on here's point of view on the podcast episodes but I get more engaged in threads where there's actual sleuthing happening. I haven't had time to follow up on any leads myself so I'm just as much at fault. But I wonder if that's why people are losing interest? Because there's less 'new' info coming out in the conversations episodes so less to discuss?

Also, most of the cases I've been involved in have been US ones and I have to say that searching for people online is way easier when they're from the US than it is in Australia (and NZ where I'm from). AU doesn't seem to have the publicly available info online.

I did see a comment on the Marion Barter FB saying someone had found a whitepages premium listing for a Florabella Remakel in the US but couldn't view the info without a paid subscription. Anyone on here have a paid sub for whitepages in the US to follow up on this lead?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Hey sleuthers, I'm back .... but wait, you didn't notice I went, did you ... fair enough .... anyway back from my outrage about the door knock on Remakel's door ... I've still been sleuthing and listening to the podcasts and sharing theories and thoughts, so a bit hypocritical of me really .... well, there it is. I am completely obsessed to the point of insanity to find out who wrote this ad in Le Courrier newspaper. The search continues ... am looking in the website archives on Trove mostly, it's very interesting there .....

 

[Josiegirl62]

Hey sleuthers, I'm back .... but wait, you didn't notice I went, did you ... fair enough .... anyway back from my outrage about the door knock on Remakel's door ... I've still been sleuthing and listening to the podcasts and sharing theories and thoughts, so a bit hypocritical of me really .... well, there it is. I am completely obsessed to the point of insanity to find out who wrote this ad in Le Courrier newspaper. The search continues ... am looking in the website archives on Trove mostly, it's very interesting there .....

I too have trolled the newspaper and no other adds appear with the same adjectives MF Remakel used, in ane edition, also above his add there was another add from michele(?) did they meet at all? Is this the michele who was searching for him on another site???

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I too have trolled the newspaper and no other adds appear with the same adjectives MF Remakel used, in ane edition, also above his add there was another add from michele(?) did they meet at all? Is this the michele who was searching for him on another site???

Hey Josiegirl62, I haven't been able to find anything else like the MF Remakel ad either, but still looking. And that other ad on the page from Marie, her postal address was in Bollene, France, so she wasn't on these shores at the time. And that other Michelle is such a phony fake, really, why would you put an ad like that up saying you met in Australia once and you'd like to catch up ... really? He's the only one in the world with that name , hey, not so hard to find his phone number, why not call him? For shame. They should be charged for creating mischief, very dangerous behaviour .... just my thoughts.
Now, this is where a lot of good stuff can be found on Trove, if you're looking for obscure things hidden away, go into the archived websites, set your dates to '96/97, sometimes there are several layers to each result to delve in. Here's an example getting closer to the 066 86 4788 - the Flat Rock ad. I think numbers like this are bunched into certain areas, have been mapping them out, might stumble across something. Wish I could find '94 archived websites though, but some of these go back to then anyway.
27 Jan 1997 - Ballina ACCOMMODATION - Archived Website - Trove