Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #16

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cortina

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on the suzy Cooper. thing...I think some. people have been too hard on her husband...only he knows how it might affect her if. she was subjected to everything associated with this case...although I appreciate its a thin line between being concerned and controlling
as. for teaching ...it depends what shed be satisfied with .....I think quite a. lot of Aussies come over as. no. fixed contract teaching assistants...certainly in London...usually don't. have any teaching qualifications and aren't necessarily studying the subjects they're helping with...obviously usually young single people who don't mind slumming it a bit for. the chance to. experience living in London for a couple. of years.
mb would obviously have to. jump. whatever residency hurdles. were in place, but if wotsisname had. or told her he had...an eu nationality...not sure if he did or. told her. he did....and she thought they were getting married and she could rely on his financial backing..then it wouldn't have been a. problem...this visit. could. just have been for a sniff around to. see how the land lie...ive got a friend who is an eu national, so no problems. there as she. came over pre Brexit...she was a qualified teacher...but of. English. and history...and. was offered a job teaching a level French in Berkshire, although shed dropped French at the age of 16...makes you weep
 

vivienbee

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On the Suzy Cooper thing - I said at the time that Marion could not have been further apart from this lady's home town and still be in England. Kent/East Sussex are in the far south east, Cumbria is in the far north west. It's a good 8-10 hours drive, or a complex train journey involving changing stations by tube in London.
This post threw me for a loop because along with Marion's case I'm just wading through (from the beginning) the threads for the Claudia Lawrence (UK) case again and the person she was meant to meet with on the night of her disappearance (?) was also called Suzy Cooper. I thought I was in the wrong thread.
Note: it isn't the same SC before anyone goes on a wild goose chase. It just confused me. :p
 

Observe_dont_Absorb

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4. It really struck me that Marion told several people she intended working in England. She would have known as an experienced teacher that it's not that simple - immigration, registration with the General Teaching Council, proving your qualifications. No school worth their salt is going to employ an illegal Australian worker without a working visa. If you think you're going to BUY a school with a view to marrying a European and working there at some point in the future once you've got UK/European nationality though, that's a different matter.

Maybe there's a clue in here?

In the past, RB had told someone he was employed by the British Embassy. Perhaps he misled Marion into believing that marrying him could entitle her to the right to reside and work in the UK / Europe?

Also, as so very many Aussie people had at least one British grandparent in those days, most were eligible for a UK passport. So, I guess her story of working in the UK would have gone unchallenged by most people she told it to? And for that reason it may have just been a convenient fib to cover her extended absence.

But remember in the inquest, didn't RB say something about Marion particularly wanting to keep her teacher training books or something? Maybe also another clue as to the lure that he had used.
 

cortina

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This post threw me for a loop because along with Marion's case I'm just wading through (from the beginning) the threads for the Claudia Lawrence (UK) case again and the person she was meant to meet with on the night of her disappearance (?) was also called Suzy Cooper. I thought I was in the wrong thread.
Note: it isn't the same SC before anyone goes on a wild goose chase. It just confused me. :p
you. and me both, chuck...youll find me on that thread too...what a couple cases to do your head in
 

KathPlumber

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PLUS and this is the main point I was making: It seems very specific reference for a non-education specialist medical Doctor to recall that name in particular In relation to consultations with MB! I mean did anyone else, apart from those in the education curriculum department (like me) sit up straight when they heard mention of Gonski? The layperson would just let it pass not thinking that the timeline was out.
Yes, agree. I did the same. It was very weird. If it was a mistake, like the doctor using the word GONSKI to indicate discussions about general education reform, what else might that doctor have forgotten/generalised about? Was he even remembering Marion, or another teacher from a later time period? (Goodness knows we teachers never stop talking about work and complaining about government initiatives not getting it right, doctors probably hear it endlessly )
 

Estelle

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SL clearing the confusion with the year the wallet was stolen
I understand from reading your attachment that MB's credit card was reported as being stolen in 1994 but the female thief did not try to use it at the service station until 1996. I remember Sally saying that the woman in the photo looked very much like MB (possibly DdH?). That's why I have often thought that RB could have stolen Marion's wallet in 1994 after MB had replied to his ad and he followed her to the school as she had given him her address. Marion had carried books from (or to) her car and had left the door open with the wallet on the seat.
 

mishy66

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I understand from reading your attachment that MB's credit card was reported as being stolen in 1994 but the female thief did not try to use it at the service station until 1996. I remember Sally saying that the woman in the photo looked very much like MB (possibly DdH?). That's why I have often thought that RB could have stolen Marion's wallet in 1994 after MB had replied to his ad and he followed her to the school as she had given him her address. Marion had carried books from (or to) her car and had left the door open with the wallet on the seat.
No SL is saying her wallet was stolen in 1996 and MB friends also think the same

And that her CC was on file as stolen in 1994 - so I read it as the police made yet another blunder
 

mishy66

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I understand from reading your attachment that MB's credit card was reported as being stolen in 1994 but the female thief did not try to use it at the service station until 1996. I remember Sally saying that the woman in the photo looked very much like MB (possibly DdH?). That's why I have often thought that RB could have stolen Marion's wallet in 1994 after MB had replied to his ad and he followed her to the school as she had given him her address. Marion had carried books from (or to) her car and had left the door open with the wallet on the seat.
SL also states, and I posted a few days back, that MB was in a relationship with GE 1994 /95 so would not be answering ads in papers
 

cortina

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never underestimate the tangled web of lies that can be woven by someone. who is or. purports to be of Australian nationality. with regards to their rights of residence in the uk.
probably the greatest. recent example...although not a lie... set the Australian national football team back a good few years when the British team Leeds united realised they were suffering because so many of. their players. were being called up for international. duty....at. the time, they players could only earn a fraction of what they could earn in Britain if they played in Australia.
so Leeds signed up a lot of. the best Australian players, with at least one. English grandparent, providing they chose England as. their. national team...none were going to get picked for England for at least a. few years and Australia. could no longer call. on them

sorry for the diversion, but it shows. what fluidity and ambiguity the British Australian relationship could lead to
 

Estelle

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No SL is saying her wallet was stolen in 1996 and MB friends also think the same

And that her CC was on file as stolen in 1994 - so I read it as the police made yet another blunder
IMO they have all assumed that MB's wallet was stolen in 1996 because they also assumed that the female thief would attempt to use it in 1996 as soon as it was stolen.

But IMO not all police make mistakes. If the police had it on record that Marion's wallet was reported to them as being stolen in 1994, I would assume that that is correct. The credit card had probably not expired so, as far as the thief was concerned, they thought they could still use it. But she was caught as the card had been reported to the credit card company also in 1994 and it had been cancelled. The thief was ignorant that when a card has been stolen, the owner reports it straight away to the credit card company and it can never be used by a thief whether it was in 1994 or 1996.

If it was DdH (SL said the photo looked like her), perhaps she found it amongst RB's possessions when he was overseas and thought she'd try using it.
 

Estelle

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SL also states, and I posted a few days back, that MB was in a relationship with GE 1994 /95 so would not be answering ads in papers
First of all, we don't know the date that GE and MB began their legal separation or got divorced (if they were married). When did they stop living together? Were they separated under the one roof as many people are? Marion may have not told anyone that they were separated or had decided to live their own lives but remain friends. MB may have secretly decided to look around as she knew the end of her relationship with GE was ending. Many people have affairs when in a relationship but don't tell their children.

The other thing that I remember Peralta telling us was that SL came to stay with MB for the school holidays in December, 1994. There was no mention of GE being there. Marion seeing GE for a holiday in 1995 may have just been that. They decided to holiday together.

I don't think anyone knows the facts. I have been in Marion's situation so I am just giving other scenarios.
 

poppypopcorn

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OK Back to the medical stuff.

Sally is absolutely wrong in thinking that women who have had a hysterectomy do not go through the menopause. They most DEFINITELY do. If you have a hysterectomy with removal of ovaries, it's immediate. If you conserve your ovaries, they are likely to pack up sooner than if you'd kept your uterus. At 51, Marion was slap bang in the middle of prime menopause time.

Without going off at too much of a tangent, even in 2022 it's really difficult to get doctors to listen to what you are experiencing. I had endless blood tests to try to figure out what was going on - including hormone tests and liver function tests. And often when you have had a hysterectomy, the tests are about ruling stuff out before settling on a menopause diagnosis which might involve repeated tests and consultations. Many women going through the menopause feel a level of anxiety/depression which they had not experienced before, and struggle to cope with everyday pressures like niggles or difficult colleagues at work. I can absolutely envision a menopausal Marion who is trying to get her doctor to take her seriously, upset and emotional at work, feeling redundant and useless, kids growing up and moving on and thinking what do I DO with the rest of my life? It is a time of huge transition for many women.

And of course Mr Blum knows all this, and knows what buttons to push to get what he wants. Poor Marion. If she was in the midst of menopausal symptoms, she would have been very vulnerable.
 

poppypopcorn

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Agree with Cortina too that there were lots of young Aussies working as teaching assistants or in bars and shops in the UK on a working holiday visa. These are easy to get and cover a working holiday to the UK of up to 21 years. But you have to be under 30. It's a gap year, or post-uni thing.

Marion would not have qualified.
 

MrsEmmaPeel

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After finished the TLV Recap episodes, I've had a real change of heart about a few things. For one, the Episodes do a brilliant job of describing coercive control and its affect on women. The fear and panic that take over one's life. The description of Marion lugging giant suitcases alone, traipsing all over England when she really wanted to go on the Orient Express, of demanding Chris leave the house, of changing her name, of her unhappiness at school and fear of the other teachers attacking her. I was always secretly peeved at Marion for changing her name, but now I see she couldn't help it. Everything that happened to her was not her fault. She was a battered woman, and she was trapped from the minute she met RB.

Two, I developed even more respect for Sally. She KNEW something was wrong with her mother's behavior, something desperately not normal, and she could not make anyone see what she saw. Now Australia and other countries are educating LE and other agencies about Coercive Control.

Three, now more than ever I see RB as something far more than a Conman who is after money. I now believe his behavior is deeply disturbing: misogynistic and borders (if not arrives at!) serial killing of women. Based on his need to humiliate and destroy women. This is purely my opinion but I think the psychology of his attacks and descriptions of his behavior point to this.

Finally, in one of the episodes Sally says she believes in her heart, Marion was leaving bread crumbs, a trail to follow, of her movements in the UK. On the passenger cards. I now feel this way. That part of Marion may have known she was doomed. Not consciously but subconsciously. The postcards, letters, and calls were all from the REAL Marion. Her wavering hand reaching out from the void to say "Here I am. Don't let me go."

Thanks for reading all this. More than ever I want justice to prevail, swiftly and with vengeance. I'm grateful to everyone, and I mean everyone here and elsewhere, who's worked to help Sally and Marion.
 

MrsEmmaPeel

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One more thing: I think the recap says that Marion has about 2 weeks of her UK stay where no one knows where she was or what she was doing. I believe Sally brings this up. She also says that Marion could have easily driven to Luxembourg during that time. The point is also made that when a woman marries in Luxembourg she keeps her maiden name. This is the perfect lever RB needed to cause MB to change her name in Australia! "If you want to take my name you'll have to do it yourself. . ."

Anyway, lots of new information on the Recaps. Including the outgoing passenger card information. Or at least I'd never heard that.
 

Housemartyn

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OK Back to the medical stuff.

Sally is absolutely wrong in thinking that women who have had a hysterectomy do not go through the menopause. They most DEFINITELY do. If you have a hysterectomy with removal of ovaries, it's immediate. If you conserve your ovaries, they are likely to pack up sooner than if you'd kept your uterus. At 51, Marion was slap bang in the middle of prime menopause time.

Without going off at too much of a tangent, even in 2022 it's really difficult to get doctors to listen to what you are experiencing. I had endless blood tests to try to figure out what was going on - including hormone tests and liver function tests. And often when you have had a hysterectomy, the tests are about ruling stuff out before settling on a menopause diagnosis which might involve repeated tests and consultations. Many women going through the menopause feel a level of anxiety/depression which they had not experienced before, and struggle to cope with everyday pressures like niggles or difficult colleagues at work. I can absolutely envision a menopausal Marion who is trying to get her doctor to take her seriously, upset and emotional at work, feeling redundant and useless, kids growing up and moving on and thinking what do I DO with the rest of my life? It is a time of huge transition for many women.

And of course Mr Blum knows all this, and knows what buttons to push to get what he wants. Poor Marion. If she was in the midst of menopausal symptoms, she would have been very vulnerable.
Totally agree with the menopause stuff. Surgical menopause is a fact. But do we know when Marion had it? I don't think so but still, she should have been having help with it.
 

KiwiNZ

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One more thing: I think the recap says that Marion has about 2 weeks of her UK stay where no one knows where she was or what she was doing. I believe Sally brings this up. She also says that Marion could have easily driven to Luxembourg during that time. The point is also made that when a woman marries in Luxembourg she keeps her maiden name. This is the perfect lever RB needed to cause MB to change her name in Australia! "If you want to take my name you'll have to do it yourself. . ."

Anyway, lots of new information on the Recaps. Including the outgoing passenger card information. Or at least I'd never heard that.

Agree with the surname - but what the heck did he say to convince her to change her first name and middle name
 

KiwiNZ

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The Neighbours comments on DHD was really interesting since it is difficult to put DHD's evidence into context without knowing what she is normally like.

The Neighbour described her as - dominant and assertive - that's the opposite of what I saw on the stand

But then the school friend described her as - Normal, kind, caring, gentle,

and who asks their Neighbour if they know anyone who could make a mint press to make fake coins ??? totally brazen.
 
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