Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #19

[mishy66]

O

Def Marion didn’t collect tea chests..and there was no pilot

Of course there wasnt lol

 

[gymtonic]

Based on all your comments recently for the first time I feel like I'm getting a plausible idea of what happened at the end of Marion's life. RB left her in Europe believing he had everything he needed to clear out Marion's bank accounts and steal her possessions. AND like some of you have said, he does not befoul his home nest. He may have left her the Barclay's account on purpose or because he couldn't get to it. Somehow Marion learns from her bank that withdrawals are happening back in Australia OR someone has made an inquiry about her account OR some other red flag is raised. Concerned she returns to figure things out thinking it will just take a week, maybe not even suspecting RB at the time, maybe not even knowing RB is in Australia. Marion arrives home, finds out it's RB stealing from her. Or runs into RB and DdH on the street even! Meanwhile RB's shocked she's back and panics. Here it finally is, on his home turf, he and his wife will be convicted of theft. He has no choice but to kill Marion because his entire swim-team-coin-collector-pensioner life and family will be destroyed. The car is necessary to transport Marion alive and/or dead. okay, now you can poke holes.

Just a couple of things to add to the mix here:
1 I think there is some doubt as to whether there was actually an account at Barclays Bank in Rye with money in it. I have in my notes that the address for Barclay’s in Rye was an overseas contact address used by MB’s bank in Oz. I believe there was some clarification of this at a later stage?

2 The timeline of potentially MB discovering ‘in the UK’ that withdrawals are being made is out if we take the view that MB arrives back on August 2 (passport enters) as the withdrawals take place after this date (start 18 August).
IMO

 

[mishy66]

In this scenario, does RB have Marion's bank cards and/or whatever else is needed to drain her account which is still in the name of Barter?

Thats my theory
He had his time to gather what he needed when he helped her pack
Imo

 

[mishy66]

I think his ramblings that MB wanted to disappear was the final nail for all in parties sitting in the room seeing him for what he is. A complete narcissist liar.

It’s not just about theft or fraud. He could steal from people anywhere. What he does is cruelty.

This is a game to him.

He IMO has scoured newspapers for years reading and searching for lonely people wanting friendship/companionship/love

If he has placed an ad it’s because he’s had to and run out of $ or his ego is in need of the ‘thrill’

The thrill for him is knowing weakness and ensuring he uses the right bait.

His moves quick. It’s a whirlwind. This is a GAME for him.

He portrays himself as successful financial and that is to show he isn’t a threat so a woman who has assets or financial freedom doesn’t have to worry that he us after her money.

None of this is playing by the seat of his pants this is a well thought out pattern and plan. That he has refined over the years.

Yes he is pattern is to leave them high and dry.

But what if it took MB returning for him to realise that’s a mistake and never to do that again? Alter the plan, adjust it..for next victim?

There is no way mb’s chests were stored there and she came to collect. He clearly has tried to keep his other women seperate from his home life.

He admits - the last time he saw her was at wollongbar… WHY????

He doesn’t need to say that.
He has said that for a reason!

Was the last time anybody at all saw MB alive in wollongbar?

What’s the reason?

she may have been seen by someone?
Because he has had stuff of hers in his possession?
There’s something.

Or it’s actually the only thing he’s said that’s truth.

There’s not a lot of detail of her leaving wollongbar just lots of her arriving.

Wollongbar matters! The Magna matters.
The rumour started long ago of found and wants to disconnect from family matters.

That is in his playbook. Don’t tell your kids just leave with me. (Name change / Returning home)

He started that rumour I bet.

Wollongbar matters!!!!!!!!

JMO

IMO
Its a more simple reasoning.

At the time the police questioned him, he had no idea IF they were going to do a search of his home, show photos of marions treasures to his family perhaps and see if they recognise anything, or canvas the neighbours to see if they saw anything, perhaps their neighbour knew them and saw the chests being delivered etc etc


He puts forward that Marion came to the Wollongbar home for the simple reason he had her goods and he was saving his own arse.
That it was her idea to have them there.


But as we know the police never did do a search of his home.

 

[mishy66]

Just a couple of things to add to the mix here:
1 I think there is some doubt as to whether there was actually an account at Barclays Bank in Rye with money in it. I have in my notes that the address for Barclay’s in Rye was an overseas contact address used by MB’s bank in Oz. I believe there was some clarification of this at a later stage?

SL has said NO account was ever held by Marion at Barclays Rye.

It was purely used as a contact address through her own bank in Australia

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Just a couple of things to add to the mix here:
1 I think there is some doubt as to whether there was actually an account at Barclays Bank in Rye with money in it. I have in my notes that the address for Barclay’s in Rye was an overseas contact address used by MB’s bank in Oz. I believe there was some clarification of this at a later stage?

2 The timeline of potentially MB discovering ‘in the UK’ that withdrawals are being made is out if we take the view that MB arrives back on August 2 (passport enters) as the withdrawals take place after this date (start 18 August).
IMO

Even better. If Oz bank can communicate with Rye Bank who can communicate with Marion— then she can be notified of any Oz shady stuff. We don’t know if RB didn’t try something when he returned. Maybe failed withdrawal or inquiry. A red flag. Since no one investigated at the time anyone who knew about that was lost. Or RB leaves, steals all MArions travelers checks or her other passport or her driver’s license or cash or bank checks. Anything that might have hindered her travel forward. She’d have to fly home to fix.

 

[gymtonic]

Even better. If Oz bank can communicate with Rye Bank who can communicate with Marion— then she can be notified of any Oz shady stuff. We don’t know if RB didn’t try something when he returned. Maybe failed withdrawal or inquiry. A red flag. Since no one investigated at the time anyone who knew about that was lost. Or RB leaves, steals all MArions travelers checks or her other passport or her driver’s license or cash or bank checks. Anything that might have hindered her travel forward. She’d have to fly home to fix.

I like some of this as in AKA leaves taking some documents with him« BUT it takes me back full circle again to contradictory evidence of the postmarks on the postcards and the phone call.

If, in the scenario above, she discovers that AKA and her documents have gone missing (à la all the other cases’ pattern), and flies home to fix it….we also have to accept that it means that she has written and pre-arranged later posting of the postcards (IMO this has always seemed a little too complex an explanation when she could just not write or phone if she really wants to remain secret) and she makes the phone call to SL all whilst hiding her true location and that she is concerned about some anomaly and has to fly back to fix it? (again IMO a bit too complex and illogical.

Why not, if she has discovered an anomaly, and the Barclay’s Bank in Rye is the nominated contact point (who has revealed the anomaly) just go through this intermediary to sort it out rather than fly back? Surely the Barclay’s Bank under their duty as contact point would endeavour to assist by making a phone call on her behalf to her bank? Provide emergency cash? Suggest that she contact a consular official to assist with the other missing documents? (Who then IMO would see the con and contact police). To not report it back to Barclay’s IMO pre-supposes that she isn’t suspicious of AKA and wants to maintain secrecy?

So, If she discovers an anomaly but doesn’t suspect RB, and looks to him for advice the last thing RB would want is for her to fly back. If she somehow is in contact with him (as in he is ringing her à la JO rather than the other way around as he doesn’t want her to know where HE actually is), then he would not advise her to go and sort it out at Barclay’s, neither would he advise her to fly back….IMO he would advise her that HE will sort it out and that’s when he would cut ties and abandon, writing it off as a failed plan…but one that has »not fouled his nest ».

All IMO because there are gaps and dead ends and assumptions in all the scenarios! I keep going around in circles on this one looking for a more logical explanations that ties it all together but am yet to get to it without some known fact not fitting. I am sure there is (or was) another piece of the puzzle out there that shifts the kaleidoscope and reveals the explanation for the unresolved conflicting info…

 

[Peralta]

Possible. If The son had the car up until 2001.. would he have been at Uni then.. in Victoria? Vic plates? Just throwing some maybes out

Ha, yes. Could be anything. His son might not have known it was registered to him - I wish the kids had been asked to be witnesses.

RB was also known to steal cars. He might've bought the 'rust bucket', used it to transport Marion/do bank withdrawals, then stole a car, and switched number plates. Disposing of the 'rust bucket' with stolen plates, and keeping the stolen car with 'rust bucket' plates.

 

[Liselle]

Her fathers family were from Britain and her mothers family Australian

I have a relative of English background, whose great grandfather was attached to the British Raj in India (1858-1947). He wed an Indian national and the family (+children) eventually migrated to Australia. Some of the subsequent generations still clearly indicate this ancestry with darkened skin, hair and eye colour, very similar to "someone else".

 

[Liselle]

Ha, yes. Could be anything. His son might not have known it was registered to him - I wish the kids had been asked to be witnesses.

RB was also known to steal cars. He might've bought the 'rust bucket', used it to transport Marion/do bank withdrawals, then stole a car, and switched number plates. Disposing of the 'rust bucket' with stolen plates, and keeping the stolen car with 'rust bucket' plates.

The police and transport authorities should know by now what happened to this car, because at the end of a car's use by date (on sold for parts or crushed for scrap metal) it is law in New South Wales to provide paperwork that has an identifier (VIN, chassis or engine number) so that police can verify these details should they ever be required. Maybe we’ll find out at a future date? I think sleuths here have provided enough information now to question the whereabouts of this car and hopefully LE have also!

 

[mishy66]

I have a relative of English background, whose great grandfather was attached to the British Raj in India (1858-1947). He wed an Indian national and the family (+children) eventually migrated to Australia. Some of the subsequent generations still clearly indicate this ancestry with darkened skin, hair and eye colour, very similar to "someone else".

Totally
Just putting up the immediate family lineage
Who knows what the generations are....
They all have darker skin, European look so def something there

 

[Liselle]

Thats my theory
He had his time to gather what he needed when he helped her pack
Imo

YES! YES! YES! This was perfected with MB and its success was transferred to the scam with JO, who testified that her personal papers etc, were taken and retained by AKA

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I would have liked to have seen the look on his face when he went to Jo's house, and she was there, instead of still in the UK!

I bet he got the shock of his life

 

[Peralta]

Although 'European' was often used pejoratively to describe migrants with tanned skin, it was also used to describe foreigners with accents, and a certain manner of dress and attitude.

We already know Marion was a stylish lady.

I don't know about Diane, but she lived abroad so it's possible she was also stylish in a way that people in small-town rural Australia are not accustomed to. Despite being of anglo-celtic origins, I can imagine her looking rather exotic with long dark hair and a scarf around her neck.

The same could be said about Marion.

To be honest, I think RB left an impression on the salesman of being a stylish exotic European with a French accent, soon to be returning to Europe with his partner.

And I think this may have affected his perception of the lady in the car, assuming she was also European.

It really sucks that his description doesn't shed light on who was in the car. We can only take his word and he thinks it was Diane.

 

[VisitorDog]

Ha, yes. Could be anything. His son might not have known it was registered to him - I wish the kids had been asked to be witnesses.

RB was also known to steal cars. He might've bought the 'rust bucket', used it to transport Marion/do bank withdrawals, then stole a car, and switched number plates. Disposing of the 'rust bucket' with stolen plates, and keeping the stolen car with 'rust bucket' plates.

I’m surprised fire wasn’t involved with the car.

 

[Mrs_Vee]

The police and transport authorities should know by now what happened to this car, because at the end of a car's use by date (on sold for parts or crushed for scrap metal) it is law in New South Wales to provide paperwork that has an identifier (VIN, chassis or engine number) so that police can verify these details should they ever be required. Maybe we’ll find out at a future date? I think sleuths here have provided enough information now to question the whereabouts of this car and hopefully LE have also!

Don’t know if this is of any significance, but I did a search for the NSW number plates & it states PVC069 as white Toyota Celica. Rego expired 2/10/97

 

[hoodunnit]

Don’t know if this is of any significance, but I did a search for the NSW number plates & it states PVC069 as white Toyota Celica. Rego expired 2/10/97

I thought it was a Mitsubushi Magna? Either way, perhaps is was re-registered in Victoria? If it was given to the son, didn't he go to Uni in Melbourne?

 

[MrsWattle]

Don’t know if this is of any significance, but I did a search for the NSW number plates & it states PVC069 as white Toyota Celica. Rego expired 2/10/97

Check PVC096

 

[Peralta]

I've got a screen shot from inquest. Not allowed to post it, but can discuss. RB's registration history says:

PVC096
Mitsubishi Magna TM
White Sedan
Owned from 11 Oct 1997 to 30 Nov 1998

He also had this car:
SQA537
Toyota Lexcen
White Sedan
Owned from 20 Nov 1998 to 20 Jan 1999

The rest of the cars on the list are 4 x blue and 1 x grey which were all Renaults and one Peugeot.

He also had one UNREGISTERED car
Plate number #00286195
Toyota Cornona
No other details except that reg expired 25 Sept 1998

 

[riddlesandpuzzles77]

Session Timeout | Service Victoria

service.vic.gov.au

Haven’t worked out how to reply to comments yet but here’s the link to Victoria rego check and I checked PVC096 (copies and paste) and got something different...... see what you guys get.... apologies if I’ve I’ve missed part of the chats and already not part of things. Thanks