GUILTY Australia - Morgan Huxley, 31, stabbed to death, Neutral Bay, NSW, 8 Sept 2013 #1

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Amazing powers of observation, I agree. I think the accounts of how and when Morgan was found need to examined very carefully, is all I am saying at this point.
rsbm

OK, Ausgirl, I was just going through doing a full review of all time events mentioned in all articles for your timeline and stumbled across something I'm surprised we didn't pick up on earlier. My aim was to get to the bottom of the JR time discrepancies etc etc.
I first listed all time mentions ONLY in the order in which they were published. Then I stripped out all the duplicates.
Then, where one report contradicted another, I gave favour to the newer one over the older one, with the assumption that newer information corrects older stuff ups. As far as JR goes, I was left with something interesting, from an article that was published by Emma Partridge (rather than Clementine Cuneo who has been doing most of the reports). EP appears to have been privvy to some info that CC wasn't; this article also is the only one that gives us the Prior Ave information which gave us all another juicy clue.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-sc...for-morgan-huxleys-killer-20130919-2u13i.html

The barefoot 31-year-old entered the hotel’s Ben Boyd Road entrance at 1.01am. He sat by himself at a table in the saloon bar before leaving at 1.30am.

Less than 90 minutes later his Irish flatmate Jean Redmond found him suffering from more than a dozen stab wounds. Police said she was at home at the time but did not believe she had any involvement in Mr Huxley’s death.


Could it be that this slipped by mistake, that LE are hiding information for the prosecution? Or hiding her exact movements to protect her relationship with EU? Could it be that JR actually heard the murder take place - hence how she knew roughly how many stabs there were? Terrified, hiding in the next room while a killer was stabbing away unaware of her presence in the flat? Could this explain all those weird little time discrepancies and inconsistencies surrounding where she was when she heard "strange noises" from his room, and what noises exactly she did hear?
 
Thanks LB - good to see you over here too :)

So upon finding the victim, still alive, and clothed above the waist which would make checking stab wounds tricky, she was still able to make a pretty close guesstimate of the number of stab wounds? 30 vs 28?

Wow - that's pretty good triage and assessment.

Or maybe I'm just cynical, as always ;)

This is certainly a case to follow - the problem being that the police are obviously in possession of a heck of a lot more information than we have, or that has been made public. And that, of course, is the way it should be.

Would be interesting to see that autopsy report, though.... :please:

Definitely got me thinking cynically too Doc. :) But maybe with her background, who knows. IMO, everyone's a suspect until they arrest someone. We can't even count on the people already ruled out by the police as not been involved, because we've seen it before - 'oh no, they aren't a suspect', then low and behold, they arrest them!

Hopefully MSM keep on this case - and also hope the police investigating are happy to reveal a little more. I think we are all just playing around with such little info right now - but have to say, I'm loving the theories that are coming up!
 
Less than 90 minutes later his Irish flatmate Jean Redmond found him suffering from more than a dozen stab wounds. Police said she was at home at the time but did not believe she had any involvement in Mr Huxley’s death.[/I]

RSBM

I believe she was home sleeping, and was woken by noises as stated by police (which is not to say she wasn't out with friends earlier). But the story may have changed a little later to protect Jean from psycho-girl. If the killer thought that Jean might have seen her run from the flat, or had dashed to the door (instead of helping Morgan) and watched the skinny stunner run down the street, or recognised her shrill voice, or found something she may have inadvertently left behind - that may put Jean at risk. Remember, we are dealing with a killer with possibly/probably a few mental issues here.

I think Jean is staying safe and sound with her boyfriend because she is traumatised, and because she may need the security of some protection. Downplaying where she was during the attack may be additional protection.
 
Time line... some assumptions have been made, and marked as such. Welcome any feedback, don't want to change any of the assumed times unless something is actually impossible as it is (otherwise we'll go back and forth forever due to all the "what-ifs".) This is just some kind of baseline to work off, and hopefully help us nail down a good theory for how events actually unfolded.

Dr Watson, I invite your input to this please!!

:fence:

12.30am? MH IS DROPPED OFF IN A TAXI AT HIS WATSON ST APARTMENT. (time = one news report says 12.30am, the rest just say "some time after midnight").

12.57am? MH LEAVES HOME TO WALK TO THE PUB (time = walking time 3 mins + 1 min wait at crosswalk)
He is still dressed in his daytime clothes, and still has sunnies on his head.

01.01am MH ARRIVES AT OAKS HOTEL
Has 2 to 3 beers, drinks alone.

01.30am MH LEAVES OAKS HOTEL
Leaves alone right on curfew.

??.??am MH HAS SEX
LE seem fairly certain he did have sex immediately - or very shortly - before the crime, but aren't being clear on reasons.

??.??am JR returns home
Either now, or after 02.30am. MSM have conflicting stories. The most recent report that she was home when the stabbing happened.

02.30am? MH IS STABBED 3 TIMES IN NECK, FURTHER 25 TIMES IN BACK
LE believe this happened close to 02.30am - around 60 minutes after leaving Oaks, but giving no clear reason for why they say so.

??.??am JR returns home
Per MSM's conflicting reports, just before 03.00am according to some earlier reports.

??.??am NEIGHBOUR HEARS POSSIBLE MOANING (MSM just report "at the time murder" but don't say an actual time)

03.00am JR HEARS MOAN AND GARGLING, FINDS HIM IN HIS BEDROOM
He is "bleeding profusely from the 3 neck wounds and blood is pooling beneath him"

Questions for Dr. Watson:
#1 , does this indicate that the larynx is still intact, if he's able to moan?
#2 , does this mean he's still (at least semi) conscious?
#3 , is the description of the bleeding enough yet to speculate whether there was a severed artery in his neck?


03.01am JR CALLS EMERGENCY SERVICES

03.11am? AMBULANCES x 3 ARRIVE (time = guess based on ambulance response times avg 10mins reported on website)
He is in cardiac arrest at this point in time, so obviously he's lost consciousness by now too.
Time critical, so decision is made to work in ambulance and get to hospital asap rather than stabilise MH at scene.
They put him onto stretcher, carry him outside, load him into ambo with 4 paramedics.

03.20am? AMBO DEPARTS FOR RNS (time = educated guess)

Ambo rushes to RNS under police escort. Google directions = 8 mins journey time at normal speed. So, 6 minutes?

03.26am? Arrival at RNS

03.40am? PASSES AWAY "SOON AFTER ARRIVAL" (time = educated guess)

Questions for Dr. Watson:
#4 , where I've guessed times above, can you suggest any corrections based on medical possibilities/impossibilities/likelihoods?
#5 , based now on the time frame from being conscious, to being in cardiac arrest (c.10 mins), and then expiring (a further 15 - 20 mins), could you make an educated guess as to whether it was due to a severed artery in the neck?
#6 , based on the type of injury and the times of the events after 03.00am, can you make an educated guess as to roughly what time the stabbing most likely occurred?
#7 , ignoring the reports of the stabbing being at 02.30am, can you speculate what the earliest possible and latest possible times the stabbing could have occurred?

 
Hmm - few questions there! Good work on the timeline though.

Let's see how we go:

Questions for Dr. Watson:
#1 , does this indicate that the larynx is still intact, if he's able to moan?


Larynx almost certainly intact. If the larynx and/or trachea is breached, there would be a lot of gurgling noises but no moaning or other vocalization. That's severed larynx is more typical of a cut-throat injury, rather than stabbing. A slicing action across the front from one side to the other.

#2 , does this mean he's still (at least semi) conscious?

Most likely - probably fading quickly though. The so-called "instantaneous death" that the media love so much really isn't, unless it's a gunshot wound to the head, basically. And even then, it needs to be to the brain stem. A cut throat can take minutes to become unconscious, depending on the rate of bleeding.

#3 , is the description of the bleeding enough yet to speculate whether there was a severed artery in his neck?

It's possible, but more likely is that it involved the internal jugular vein. Yes, the carotid artery lies alongside the internal jugular vein, but I've seen carotids "bounce" away from stab wounds - and even from a chainsaw injury. But the internal jugular vein is much easier to damage. Again, a slicing motion would be more likely to damage the artery, although not impossible by stabbing. The other factor would be the time taken to die according to your timeline - much more in keeping with venous bleeding in general terms.

#4 , where I've guessed times above, can you suggest any corrections based on medical possibilities/impossibilities/likelihoods?

The thing that is a bit of a puzzle is the 30 minutes or so between the attack at 02:30, and the finding of the victim at 03:00 - still alive. That would suggest the bleeding wasn't catastrophic, and raises the question as to why was the victim unable to move or call for help. I gather that the smaller wounds on the back didn't do any damage, although if at least one were to have punctured a lung, then he would have had trouble breathing. But that whole 30 minutes or more between the given attack time, and when he died, seems a fairly long time. Even for significant venous bleeding, like that internal jugular. And if it was just puncture wounds to the vein, as opposed to incised wounds, then the bleeding would have been slower (more consistent with the times) but would have allowed him to put pressure on his neck and stagger out for help. That doesn't all quite fit - at least with the info we have so far.

#5 , based now on the time frame from being conscious, to being in cardiac arrest (c.10 mins), and then expiring (a further 15 - 20 mins), could you make an educated guess as to whether it was due to a severed artery in the neck?

See above - would be much more consistent with an injury to a significant vein, such as the internal jugular vein. but once again, I find it odd that the bleeding was slow enough to take so long to become unconscious and then to die, but he was unable to either call for help or to stagger out while applying pressure to his neck. Maybe there were other injuries, such as a blow to the head? But the adrenalin levels we've been told about would be consistent with a fair degree of panic, so presumably he was conscious and knew he was in danger of exsanguinating. Which of course, is what it appears he did.

#6 , based on the type of injury and the times of the events after 03.00am, can you make an educated guess as to roughly what time the stabbing most likely occurred?

Same answer, essentially. Stab wounds to the neck enough to render him unable to do anything, and to cause significant bleeding as seems to have been the case, would usually be expected to result in a quicker death. One other possibility - and this is pure speculation of course - is that one or more of the stabs entered his vertebral column and damaged his spinal cord, rendering him unable to move. As long as it was below the level of the 5th cervical vertebra (C5) he would still have been able to breathe and gurgle. Just a thought.

#7 , ignoring the reports of the stabbing being at 02.30am, can you speculate what the earliest possible and latest possible times the stabbing could have occurred?

Further than I've speculated above, not really. If I had access to the autopsy report, information about what vessels were damaged and what type of damage they suffered, if his vertebral artery was damaged in the cervical spine, if he had spinal cord damage, etc etc - then I may be in a position to speculate a tad more accurately - maybe ;)

Hope that all makes some kind of sense :moo:
 
RSBM
#4 , where I've guessed times above, can you suggest any corrections based on medical possibilities/impossibilities/likelihoods?

The thing that is a bit of a puzzle is the 30 minutes or so between the attack at 02:30, and the finding of the victim at 03:00 - still alive. That would suggest the bleeding wasn't catastrophic, and raises the question as to why was the victim unable to move or call for help. I gather that the smaller wounds on the back didn't do any damage, although if at least one were to have punctured a lung, then he would have had trouble breathing. But that whole 30 minutes or more between the given attack time, and when he died, seems a fairly long time. Even for significant venous bleeding, like that internal jugular. And if it was just puncture wounds to the vein, as opposed to incised wounds, then the bleeding would have been slower (more consistent with the times) but would have allowed him to put pressure on his neck and stagger out for help. That doesn't all quite fit - at least with the info we have so far.

If the timeline were written up the same but with 02.45 or 02.50 or thereabouts as the time of the stabbing, do you think the rest of the sequence of events with regards to bleeding death would make more sense?
Of course, based only on the info we have and what we can speculate!
One other possibility - and this is pure speculation of course - is that one or more of the stabs entered his vertebral column and damaged his spinal cord, rendering him unable to move. As long as it was below the level of the 5th cervical vertebra (C5) he would still have been able to breathe and gurgle. Just a thought.
This, and pretty much everything you've said is golden!!! Thanks so much! It probably won't be the last time I bother you with questions - the mind is always ticking!

Cheers!!!!!

:seeya:
 
Hmm - few questions there! Good work on the timeline though.

Let's see how we go:

Questions for Dr. Watson:
#1 , does this indicate that the larynx is still intact, if he's able to moan?


Larynx almost certainly intact. If the larynx and/or trachea is breached, there would be a lot of gurgling noises but no moaning or other vocalization. That's severed larynx is more typical of a cut-throat injury, rather than stabbing. A slicing action across the front from one side to the other.

#2 , does this mean he's still (at least semi) conscious?

Most likely - probably fading quickly though. The so-called "instantaneous death" that the media love so much really isn't, unless it's a gunshot wound to the head, basically. And even then, it needs to be to the brain stem. A cut throat can take minutes to become unconscious, depending on the rate of bleeding.

#3 , is the description of the bleeding enough yet to speculate whether there was a severed artery in his neck?

It's possible, but more likely is that it involved the internal jugular vein. Yes, the carotid artery lies alongside the internal jugular vein, but I've seen carotids "bounce" away from stab wounds - and even from a chainsaw injury. But the internal jugular vein is much easier to damage. Again, a slicing motion would be more likely to damage the artery, although not impossible by stabbing. The other factor would be the time taken to die according to your timeline - much more in keeping with venous bleeding in general terms.

#4 , where I've guessed times above, can you suggest any corrections based on medical possibilities/impossibilities/likelihoods?

The thing that is a bit of a puzzle is the 30 minutes or so between the attack at 02:30, and the finding of the victim at 03:00 - still alive. That would suggest the bleeding wasn't catastrophic, and raises the question as to why was the victim unable to move or call for help. I gather that the smaller wounds on the back didn't do any damage, although if at least one were to have punctured a lung, then he would have had trouble breathing. But that whole 30 minutes or more between the given attack time, and when he died, seems a fairly long time. Even for significant venous bleeding, like that internal jugular. And if it was just puncture wounds to the vein, as opposed to incised wounds, then the bleeding would have been slower (more consistent with the times) but would have allowed him to put pressure on his neck and stagger out for help. That doesn't all quite fit - at least with the info we have so far.

#5 , based now on the time frame from being conscious, to being in cardiac arrest (c.10 mins), and then expiring (a further 15 - 20 mins), could you make an educated guess as to whether it was due to a severed artery in the neck?

See above - would be much more consistent with an injury to a significant vein, such as the internal jugular vein. but once again, I find it odd that the bleeding was slow enough to take so long to become unconscious and then to die, but he was unable to either call for help or to stagger out while applying pressure to his neck. Maybe there were other injuries, such as a blow to the head? But the adrenalin levels we've been told about would be consistent with a fair degree of panic, so presumably he was conscious and knew he was in danger of exsanguinating. Which of course, is what it appears he did.

#6 , based on the type of injury and the times of the events after 03.00am, can you make an educated guess as to roughly what time the stabbing most likely occurred?

Same answer, essentially. Stab wounds to the neck enough to render him unable to do anything, and to cause significant bleeding as seems to have been the case, would usually be expected to result in a quicker death. One other possibility - and this is pure speculation of course - is that one or more of the stabs entered his vertebral column and damaged his spinal cord, rendering him unable to move. As long as it was below the level of the 5th cervical vertebra (C5) he would still have been able to breathe and gurgle. Just a thought.

#7 , ignoring the reports of the stabbing being at 02.30am, can you speculate what the earliest possible and latest possible times the stabbing could have occurred?

Further than I've speculated above, not really. If I had access to the autopsy report, information about what vessels were damaged and what type of damage they suffered, if his vertebral artery was damaged in the cervical spine, if he had spinal cord damage, etc etc - then I may be in a position to speculate a tad more accurately - maybe ;)

Hope that all makes some kind of sense :moo:

Doc and Michael - great job! You've given us something else to ponder.

Doc, (BBM) - this is really interesting. The timeline has really bothered me, particularly in the context of reported gurgling, lack of other reports of noise/screams (that we know of), and the roommate's location and state (was she drunk, in a deep sleep, just got home??). You've given a new scenario here with the potential for part-paralysis.

Now, for that autopsy report....waiting....waiting....
 
I don't think we need to worry ourselves too much with the noises... If he was "entertaining", he probably had a bit of music going and his door closed. If JR came home in that time, or was already home, maybe she heard some music.

Even the killing might have just sounded like some grunts, thumps and moans, something you'd expect when you live with a guy who entertains a lot.

And even an emotional girl shrieking and crying behind the door probably wouldn't draw much more thought than "oh morgs, he's breaking another heart...".

At some point, sure, the sounds changed and she would have realised something is not right, better call out - no valid response - OK, I'm gonna open the door... OMG! Poor poor girl. :(
 
If the timeline were written up the same but with 02.45 or 02.50 or thereabouts as the time of the stabbing, do you think the rest of the sequence of events with regards to bleeding death would make more sense?
Of course, based only on the info we have and what we can speculate!

Oh yes - it's the apparently longish time between 02:30 and when he is known to have died that bothers me. It would make much more sense - purely from a medical point of view, and assuming no other injuries (eg the spinal cord thing) - if he had been stabbed only a few minutes before he was found by the ambulance crews. The shorter that timeframe, the less of a problem I have with it.

I wonder why the police have suggested about 02:30 as the time of the attack? Do they know something else such as witnesses to someone leaving in a hurry at about that time, for example? Presumably they have SOME reason to suggest 02:30.

But that does leave a long time to bleed out, and during that time - again assuming no other significant injuries - he SHOULD have been able to clutch his neck.

There is a large plexus of nerves in the side of the neck, called the brachial plexus, and this controls the upper limb. It is conceivable that the brachial plexus was damaged in the stabbing, but that would only have paralysed the upper limb of that side. I think it was stated that all three major stab wounds were to the same side of the neck. So he COULD have just reached up with his other hand and put pressure on his neck once the attacker had fled.

Wonder if there were any injuries to the back of a hand, eg the opposite one to the side of the neck injuries?

Intriguing.... :banghead:
 
Did police suggest 2:30 as time of attack? I thought it was within a 60 minute time frame (in some reports) or between 1:30 and 3:00 (in other reports)?


Oh ... and great job guys! Keep at it and you'll have this solved for us in no time! :wink:
 
Upon leaving the pub at 01.30am
Sometime within the next 90-minutes, although police believe it could possibly be closer to 60-minutes, Mr Huxley was repeatedly stabbed almost 30 times.

ETA of course that's up to interpretation a thousand different ways... I'm just trying to take it on face value for the moment... but seems we're already disproving it too...
 
Ok, thanks. I did read that, but interpreted it differently too. After all that reading I did about blood loss and cardiac arrest, I thought Morgan was attacked closer to 3am too. And that's part of the reason I lean toward Jean being home at the time of the attack. Otherwise, in my mind, she would be walking in the door as the killer is running out of it.


(I just figured Morgan made something to eat .. common to have a late night snack after drinking .. before his booty call or before he was attacked).
 
You guys have some great thoughts and theories :)

I'm still a little confused with how this all happened I'm such a short time span.
Is it assumed that he came back from the pub and someone was waiting there unexpectedly or more that he called for a meet up?

It really is like a romance novel turned bad!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
OK that does make sense .. if the flatmate walked in and it just seemed like MH was 'entertaining' and then the sounds changed and she realised something 'was wrong' and investigated and found him on the floor. POOR WOMAN!! No wonder she moved out and in with her boyfriend, so would have I.

Just going through old statements too, and this one seems unrealistic:

Ms Orcsik gave a statement to police in the days after Mr Huxley’s murder.

When asked why she thought that, Ms Orcsik said “I just know that Morgan wasn’t the type to make enemies”.

Since the gruesome murder, police have focused largely on the likelihood Mr Huxley’s killer was a female, and possibly a scorned lover.


Now look, when I was in Sydney it was normal to have a few lovers on the go at once, no big deal, as everyone knew where they stood, and the same with my female friends. Like even if you are casually sleeping with a guy you would like a relationship with, I can't imagine ever getting actually angry at a guy for being casual with you, even if you knew he had other lovers, actually you'd be even less likely to get angry at a guy who was open about that.

So to me the only way a woman could muster up enough anger to do this to a lover was if she had been led to believe in a different reality, or if she had been humiliated in some way.

Who felt like they had the right to more from Morgan than just a bit of casual sex, yet was willing to front up for just that on the basis of a phone call or a last minute suggestion at a party?

I still think the arrangement was made there, and they decided to leave separately to keep the hook up a secret from other party goers. That to me explains the visit to the pub for 30 mins.

Every time I look at this case I go back to RP, or someone in a similar position as her, a girl who at the time of his death considered herself to be his girlfriend.
 
Dr Watson & michael - what an great deal of information there is there! Thank-you so much!
 
Could something have happened at the engagement party that got back to the killer? Like Morgan was getting flirty (or more) with someone there, and this was communicated to the killer that day/evening - angering them or igniting jealousy? The possibility that this person was stewing over it for a number of hours could lead to an explosive confrontation, especially if the killer thought Morgan had gone home with someone else.
 
Could something have happened at the engagement party that got back to the killer? Like Morgan was getting flirty (or more) with someone there, and this was communicated to the killer that day/evening - angering them or igniting jealousy? The possibility that this person was stewing over it for a number of hours could lead to an explosive confrontation, especially if the killer thought Morgan had gone home with someone else.

Yes!! Perhaps yes.

Even if the killer didn't attend herself she may have heard from a mutual friend, a comment, a brag, something that got her steamed, even the fact she wasn't invited if in fact she did consider herself to have 'girlfriend status' at the time. Clearly whoever it was didn't leave WITH Morgan, say she was there, and he wanted to leave separately even .. that may have got her riled up.

Say she HAD had girlfriend status in recent history, and was now demoted to a late night BC. The demotion itself combined with a personality disorder and alcohol may have easily tipped her over the edge.

I really hope they err on the side of caution here and make an arrest soon.
 
Yes!! Perhaps yes.

Even if the killer didn't attend herself she may have heard from a mutual friend, a comment, a brag, something that got her steamed, even the fact she wasn't invited if in fact she did consider herself to have 'girlfriend status' at the time. Clearly whoever it was didn't leave WITH Morgan, say she was there, and he wanted to leave separately even .. that may have got her riled up.

Say she HAD had girlfriend status in recent history, and was now demoted to a late night BC. The demotion itself combined with a personality disorder and alcohol may have easily tipped her over the edge.

I really hope they err on the side of caution here and make an arrest soon.

BBM

Great point. I couldn't imagine Morgan having a standard date, if he was hooking up with multiple women. And his friends probably didn't do the 'couple' invite thing, as they would leave it up to Morgan to invite whoever he felt like taking. So maybe the killer expected to be his date and wasn't. That would add fuel to the fire too.

It's a really curious statement about the personality disorder that IIRC a uni professor made (correct me if I'm wrong - I can't remember which article it was in). I don't know if this is either a professor that just wanted to get their name in the paper, they were approached for expert comment by MSM, or they are assisting the police investigation - feed small details to MSM that causes some sort of reaction in the killer.

I know people with personality disorders can sometimes become very defensive if accused of having a PD, either through lack of insight into their own issues, or that it presses a button - challenges their self concept. This one sentence in MSM could be very confronting for the killer if they do in fact suffer from a PD.

It's so hard to pick if this is a very strategic approach by the police, or if it is just a passing comment/assessment by a professional sought by MSM for an expert opinion (the uni professor).

EDIT:

Found the article and quote:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...va-morgan-huxley/story-fni0cx12-1226724096453

Associate Professor of Criminology at Queensland's Bond University, Dr Wayne Petherick, said the description of the injuries sustained by Mr Huxley indicated his killing was "very deliberate and very angry".

He said the attack on Mr Huxley was symptomatic of a personality disorder
 
Just adding to my thoughts above. What also struck me as odd about the quote from the Assoc. Prof is that it is quite a leap to even consider a public diagnosis without assessment. At this stage (as far as we know) the killer has not been assessed by this professor. Most mental health/psychiatric professionals would be very hesitant slapping a label onto someone without more info. Possibly this quote was more along the lines of profiling. Or he has access to quite a bit more crime scene info/background than we do. It really is curious.
 
RSBM

I believe she was home sleeping, and was woken by noises as stated by police (which is not to say she wasn't out with friends earlier). But the story may have changed a little later to protect Jean from psycho-girl. If the killer thought that Jean might have seen her run from the flat, or had dashed to the door (instead of helping Morgan) and watched the skinny stunner run down the street, or recognised her shrill voice, or found something she may have inadvertently left behind - that may put Jean at risk. Remember, we are dealing with a killer with possibly/probably a few mental issues here.

I think Jean is staying safe and sound with her boyfriend because she is traumatised, and because she may need the security of some protection. Downplaying where she was during the attack may be additional protection.

Good thought! :thumb:

JR would probably need some protection (and therapy) if the killer thinks JR has some idea who she is!

JMO
 
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