Australia Australia - Peter Falconio, 28, Barrow Creek, NT, 14 Jul 2001

[they'll get you]

Where is Falconio’s body? Why, asks a professor who describes himself as a specialist in “human secretions”, was there no blood spatter at the scene, just pools of blood, if Falconio had been shot? Why would a hitherto careful drug runner, asks the author of a book on the case, bundle an abducted woman into the back of his truck containing $200,000 of hydroponically grown cannabis? Most of all, what was the deal with the mysterious red car and the so-called jelly man spotted up the road from the crime scene?
Murder in the Outback: the Falconio and Lees Mystery review – more tragic than mysterious

 

[they'll get you]

The most disturbing issue, though, arises when Fraser interviews the lorry driver who picked up Lees. Vince Millar recalls something he has never mentioned before. Just before he found Lees on the highway, he says, he noticed a parked red car and, beside it, two men holding up a third. “I saw this bloke who looked like jelly,” he recalls. “He was in the middle of two blokes.” He pulled over and asked if they were all right, but they got into the car and sped off. “I’m pretty sure that the bloke in the middle was Peter Falconio.” If so, then, just possibly, Falconio survived his own murder.
Murder in the Outback: the Falconio and Lees Mystery review – more tragic than mysterious

 

[dreadbundi]

There's so many things on this case that muddy the few facts there are. All very confusing, not helped by lots of different people telling lots of different stories.

 

[JLZ]

Just watched all 4 episodes of the Channel 4 show. Lots of questions that weren't raised in it (I guess that wasn't really the purpose of the show-more to show that he didn't get a fair trial), and apologies if any of these have been covered in the thread already (I'm going back to the start and working my way through now)

1. Did Bradley Murdoch ever confirm or deny if that was him in the footage from the evening of the murder in the shell petrol station?
2. Timeline wise, what time roughly was the 'murder' supposed to have taken place? Joanne says she lay down in the bush for a few hours? How does this match with the time from the petrol station footage? If BM was in the footage, did he have time to murder Peter, search for Joanne for that length of time, then get to the petrol station from the murder site in this time frame?
3. CCTV- a few issues here-
-the truckstop Joanne was driven to after she was picked up by the truckers.
-the cafe/bar that the owners say Peter and Joanne dined in (where Joanne was spotted talking to a man matching her description), that she denied ever being in.
-the sighting of Peter in the days after his apparent murder by the couple that worked in the shop.
-the red rooster restaurant that Lees and Falconio AND BM ate in on the morning of his murder.

Do any of these establishments, or places nearby have CCTV that the police checked?

Thanks.

Re your second point. One of the recent articles does say that JL hid in the bush for 5 hours while BM searched for her. I don't have either of the books I read on this any more, but my recollection is that BM didn't search for anything like that length of time. She remained in hiding for a long while (hours) after he'd given up.

 

[Mrs Marple]

The lorry driver who picked JL up said she was terrified. For someone who has been accused of being so unemotional, that must be hard to fake. I'm not sure why the DNA evidence is being refuted. It was on the gear knob of the car.

 

[sonz82]

Ive been watching the documentary. Part 4 is on tonight and the more i watch it, the more im convinced Murdoch was stitched up good and proper. So many questions... why did Joanne lie about not visiting that truck stop restaurant?
Who is this mystery man who seems like a more likely suspect and fits the description of the attacker better than murdoch?
Before the night of the attack, falconio worked at an insurance company and suggested to coworkers that he knew how to fake a death and just dissapear. Did he know Joanne had cheated and hatched a plan with the long haired mystery man so he could just dissapear?
(There are witnesses who stated they saw Falconio after his photo was in the paper)

 

[sonz82]

The lorry driver who picked JL up said she was terrified. For someone who has been accused of being so unemotional, that must be hard to fake. I'm not sure why the DNA evidence is being refuted. It was on the gear knob of the car.

I thought the only DNA evidence was on the back of Joannes tshirt?
If somehow murdoch was in one of the same bars and brushed past joanne, that could explain how that got there.

 

[Mrs Marple]

I thought the only DNA evidence was on the back of Joannes tshirt?
If somehow murdoch was in one of the same bars and brushed past joanne, that could explain how that got there.

There was further evidence on the gear stick and l think on the steering wheel. However. They were in the context of other samples and were low grade. This makes sense as there would have been a lot of DNA in the vehicle. One of the lorry drivers cleaned JL up so the lack of DNA evidence isn't surprising.

There were in the same restaurant earlier in the day but not at the same time.

 

[Funky funky]

I was leaning towards it not being BM and then I saw this https://amp.abc.net.au/article/8117358
But I still believe JL is lying, this case is so perplexing.

 

[Funky funky]

DBM

 

[Mrs Marple]

Not lying but possibly not telling the whole truth.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Ive been watching the documentary. Part 4 is on tonight and the more i watch it, the more im convinced Murdoch was stitched up good and proper. So many questions... why did Joanne lie about not visiting that truck stop restaurant?
Who is this mystery man who seems like a more likely suspect and fits the description of the attacker better than murdoch?
Before the night of the attack, falconio worked at an insurance company and suggested to coworkers that he knew how to fake a death and just dissapear. Did he know Joanne had cheated and hatched a plan with the long haired mystery man so he could just dissapear?
(There are witnesses who stated they saw Falconio after his photo was in the paper)

I am curious as to when and where PF worked in an insurance company? And link to where this is stated?

As far as I know, and I have read several books, he never worked in an insurance company. He worked in UK in construction companies and odd jobs like pizza delivering. In Sydney he had worked for a furniture design company.

A friend he knew in UK who did work in one, stated later that PF questioned him intently about 'insurance cheaters' when the friend told him about something he had learned at work about investigating bogus insurance claims.

I have never seen it stated PF saying, to quote your words, "he knew how to fake a death and just dissapear" and I am sure if he had made such a statement it would have been widely reported in the numerous books and articles since, given what happened.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

One thing that does strike me about the case, is that on July 11 after arriving in Alice, PF went to see a firm of accountants to apparently finalise a tax return. Expecting a tax rebate, it is said he found he actually owed tax.

How much tax? Enough for him to consider doing a 'dodgy deal' to run some drugs or contraband up the highway on their way up? Money must have been tight, particularly with having to fork out on repairs to the Kombi, and that might have appeared like an easy way to make a few bucks.

Did something then go wrong on the night, like trying to pull a fast one and not delivering?

 

[JLZ]

One thing that does strike me about the case, is that on July 11 after arriving in Alice, PF went to see a firm of accountants to apparently finalise a tax return. Expecting a tax rebate, it is said he found he actually owed tax.

How much tax? Enough for him to consider doing a 'dodgy deal' to run some drugs or contraband up the highway on their way up? Money must have been tight, particularly with having to fork out on repairs to the Kombi, and that might have appeared like an easy way to make a few bucks.

Did something then go wrong on the night, like trying to pull a fast one and not delivering?

PF learnt of the tax debt the same day he disappeared. That doesn't leave much time to source and arrange a 'dodgy deal', in a small town where they are strangers.

Edited to add: I believe he did not yet have a debt as far as the ATO was concerned. The accountant said that the tax he had so far paid was insufficient, so that when he submitted his tax return, which properly he needed to do within three and a half months, ATO would request payment of the balance not before the end of November. There was no urgency to come up with the cash.
Court hears of Falconio movements on day he vanished

 

[Funky funky]

Not lying but possibly not telling the whole truth.

What reasons would you suggest for that?

 

[Kasmeer]

Very interesting documentary, but left me with more questions than answers after watching all 4 programmes. Clearly, the programme was made with a bit of bias, given its focus on the ex-defence lawyer working for Murdoch, but it made a lot of good points, enough to really make the case very questionable indeed without the DNA evidence. And that evidence, also questionable, only the spot on the t-shirt as a cast-iron match, and that's small enough to have been a contact transfer.

I'm generally one who believes strongly in DNA as an indicator, but they sure made a good point that if the incident happened as Lees says, why was there only one tiny speck of DNA on her? Indeed I'd ask, if it happened as she said, why was there not large quantities of DNA of anyone on her? Which only adds to the questions and doubts about her account of the whole thing, having read this thread I know a bit about the no other footprints, the van being moved near her without her hearing, disappearing/species-changing dog, etc etc.

The whole thing leaves me with a lot of doubts about Murdoch's guilt, although equally, it's not impossible that he could've done it, and he certainly is an unpleasant man who was probably well capable of it. I struggle to believe Lees' story, yet I know myself that I'd be terible at recalling things, come across badly, want to avoid the media, give off poor body language, etc etc. I'd be a terrible witness, which means I try to be more understanding of people in her situation... however when no evidence appears to actually corroborate her version of events, it's a bit hard to believe. I have a feeling this is one that'll never be fully solved unless Peter Falconio himself pops up to explain all; after all, there's no evidence that he's actually dead...

 

[sonz82]

I am curious as to when and where PF worked in an insurance company? And link to where this is stated?

As far as I know, and I have read several books, he never worked in an insurance company. He worked in UK in construction companies and odd jobs like pizza delivering. In Sydney he had worked for a furniture design company.

A friend he knew in UK who did work in one, stated later that PF questioned him intently about 'insurance cheaters' when the friend told him about something he had learned at work about investigating bogus insurance claims.

I have never seen it stated PF saying, to quote your words, "he knew how to fake a death and just dissapear" and I am sure if he had made such a statement it would have been widely reported in the numerous books and articles since, given what happened.

Theres no link. It was on the 4 part documentary. It was all in the police reports and files. Witnesses even state that they saw falconio alive with the Ute days after the incident.

 

[sonz82]

The thing that made me think that Joanne was lying was that when she was asked if she knew what happened to peter, she said no and nodded her head at the same time. Ive seen that happen many times, people who lie subconsciously reveal the truth.
A suspect in a boys dissapearance, when asked if he put the boy on a bus, he said yes but was shaking his head as he said it.

 

[JLZ]

Where is Falconio’s body? Why, asks a professor who describes himself as a specialist in “human secretions”, was there no blood spatter at the scene, just pools of blood, if Falconio had been shot? Why would a hitherto careful drug runner, asks the author of a book on the case, bundle an abducted woman into the back of his truck containing $200,000 of hydroponically grown cannabis? Most of all, what was the deal with the mysterious red car and the so-called jelly man spotted up the road from the crime scene?
Murder in the Outback: the Falconio and Lees Mystery review – more tragic than mysterious

Re Falconio's blood and whether there was "spatter": this is taken from the trial judgement:

"these included a large pool of apparent blood staining on the bitumen near the edge of the road that had been covered with dirt and loose stones and measured about 60 centimetres by 40 centimetres, two smaller areas to the south of the main stain (that could, possibly, have been comprised of material scattered from the main area of staining) and some "dotting" to the west of the main stain" Murdoch v The Queen [2007] NTCCA 1 (10 January 2007)
paragraph 38 (f).

 

[JLZ]

Very interesting documentary, but left me with more questions than answers after watching all 4 programmes. Clearly, the programme was made with a bit of bias, given its focus on the ex-defence lawyer working for Murdoch, but it made a lot of good points, enough to really make the case very questionable indeed without the DNA evidence. And that evidence, also questionable, only the spot on the t-shirt as a cast-iron match, and that's small enough to have been a contact transfer.

I'm generally one who believes strongly in DNA as an indicator, but they sure made a good point that if the incident happened as Lees says, why was there only one tiny speck of DNA on her? Indeed I'd ask, if it happened as she said, why was there not large quantities of DNA of anyone on her? Which only adds to the questions and doubts about her account of the whole thing, having read this thread I know a bit about the no other footprints, the van being moved near her without her hearing, disappearing/species-changing dog, etc etc.

The whole thing leaves me with a lot of doubts about Murdoch's guilt, although equally, it's not impossible that he could've done it, and he certainly is an unpleasant man who was probably well capable of it. I struggle to believe Lees' story, yet I know myself that I'd be terible at recalling things, come across badly, want to avoid the media, give off poor body language, etc etc. I'd be a terrible witness, which means I try to be more understanding of people in her situation... however when no evidence appears to actually corroborate her version of events, it's a bit hard to believe. I have a feeling this is one that'll never be fully solved unless Peter Falconio himself pops up to explain all; after all, there's no evidence that he's actually dead...

Of a traumatic situation I'd be a poor witness too. My memory would be patchy. At the best of times my face-identification skills are below average. I'd probably contradict myself as recollections came into and went out of focus. But, say you understand about that--that trauma interferes with memory--that doesn't mean you should pretend I'm a good witness and put utter faith in all the details of my latest version. I have trouble accepting as conclusive JL's identification of BM as her attacker. (Still if I had to guess one way or another, I'd plump that BM is guilty.)