Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #5 *charges*

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We went back to see what assumptions we've been making here and one was that there is no mobile reception at all in the area. Well, that is not quite correct. Dargo received a new mobile phone tower in December, 2017. The Telstra coverage map is a nightmare. But it seems there is 3G and 4G on a lot of sections of the DargoHigh Plains road and including the Grant historical Area. Moreover, and this is the really bizarre thing, Optus has a fair amount of coverage in the area, according to their coverage map which, unlike Telstra, is actually usable. And one area covered is the Myrtleford Gate - see screen shots below.
5G would not have been operating, we suspect; but 3G and 4G would have been.
There is according ot the maps no coverage in the valley.
When you add to that the fact that many people have "Roaming" enabled, which means you can use other networks, the police may have had a fair amount of technical information from quite early on. Hence their comments that they have moved this forward by analysis of information. The other sort of data we just realised they may well have had dash camera footage. The volume of videos on youtube of the valley suggests a lot of 4WD folks have cash cameras.
Managing this amount of data and analysing it is a monumental task but also a tribute to the tenacity and dedication of the police.

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Further to today's developments, I wanted to share some screen grabs from the 60 mins story. If one cuts through the usual 60 mins puffery and quizzical grimaces of the reporter, there was this one shot of a wall of posters. How much of this is staged to rattle the suspect has not been stated. But, there is this one poster that shows red and blue dots on a map. This appears to be a map of the Dargo - Mt Hotham area with the Wonnangatta valley.
What is interesting are the two red dots - on the extreme left. Speculation: thiese represent the camp site and possibly the Myrtleford gate.
The line of blue dots appear to follow the Dargo High Plains road.
The reason this is important is that each dot represents a data point. Do the blue dots represent a sighting of the vehicle, verified by say dash camera?
It seems that these maps show the police had tracked a vehicle along the Dargo High Plains road to Mt Hotham. But at the bottom of the screen grabs are other blue dots.

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oh that is really interesting. If they have multiple sightings of the Nissan along that road, with times, they could guess where the car went off that road and into e.g. Grant historic area; and then returned back to the main road.
 
I have been out this afternoon and Just catching up now, so sorry for the delay.
I agree with the police that the Dry River Track camp is the best site in the valley, it is where we camp every time we go there. Luckily every time we have gone there as a group, we get it to ourselves (usually some of the group go in mid week).
The campsite is quite spacious and has a concreted fire pit towards the south end of the clearing. Russell's tent was towards the entrance to the clearing making it about 30m from the fire pit. This suggests to me that someone else may have been camped closer to the fire pit.
There is a long drop toilet about 50m from where Russell had his tent set up.
There is a suspension bridge over the river about 150 -200m upstream from the campsite. The suspension bridge is a foot bridge only about 1m wide. Hunters and bush walkers use this to access the east side of the river. I have never been over the bridge myself for no other reason than I saw nothing of interest on the other side of the river that I couldnt see from the west side of the river.
As far a Russell setting up in the exact same spot, it depends how pedantic you want to be. I would say Russell had set up within about 20m of where he set up the last time we camped there together.
Dont apologize for asking questions, I am glad that I can clear up some of the missing detail and right some misconceptions and miss reported information. Most of the members of the group that I go camping with would not go camping solo or even as a pair or couple in remote areas like Wonnangatta station. What has happened to Russell and Carol reinforces the reason why.
Hi Motomike….please excuse my ignorance, when you say “not go camping solo or even in a pair’…..is it because they are concerned with misadventure or simply that it is so remote whereby it is dangerous to navigate. Again thank you for you insight.
 
oh that is really interesting. If they have multiple sightings of the Nissan along that road, with times, they could guess where the car went off that road and into e.g. Grant historic area; and then returned back to the main road.
Yes. I think that is why the police focus on specific areas. Apart from phone geolocation data, if say he was using google maps, which may have stayed on his phone even if deleted, he may also have had a gps. If he had a fitbit or a watch that uploaded data to a laptop or the cloud, then the police may have had that from months ago, due to warrants. Police were focusing on specific areas prior to the arrest.
I remember reading of a case in I think the US, here the investigators drove along roads, taking timings and they too had data points. so they could see where their alleged perp was slow or fast. The police realised their man stopped in a spot for an hour. The search was successful in that case.
 
Motomike
Thanks so much for your comments here. They correct and clarify so much. I and my friends had a couple of questions and some arise out of us watching the Ch.9 missing documentary.
I hope you do not mind our peppering you with questions. We were wondering....
About how long does it take to set up and take down an antenna?
Do you know what time Mr Hill and Ms Clay arrived at the camp site?
I guess also, how long does it take to traverse the Zeka spur? The press say about 2 1/2 hours at about 10km /hr for 23 km. And how long to exit the area if you go east to Talbottville or use the Cynthia track.
How long would it take Mr Hill to set up his camp site?
Do you know whether Mr Hill took a camera or a firearm with him when he went camping?
Could Mr Hill's drone take night vision? - a witness says he was flying it "in the evening", which sounds odd.
Thanks for reading and your time.

Ok the antenna would only take about 10 min max to put up and it would take less to take it down again. maybe 5 minutes max. Essentially it is a telescoping pole and a length of wire approx 40m long.
I dont know what time they got there, but I would think mid afternoon as they spent the previous night not too far away.
Zeka Spur track can be very rough and slippery, so depending on the conditions it would take anywhere from 1 1/2 hours upwards.
Not sure how long it would take to exit the valley via Talbotville but it would be 3-4 hours in good conditions I guess, more if the conditions were rough and slippery.
Depending on how long you intend to stay at a camping spot you set up more or less equipment. A quick overnight setup might take 1 - 1/12 hours I suppose.
Russell probably had a camera but I dont think he usually had a firearm when camping, at least not that I am aware of. He didnt go hunting in the years I knew him.
The drone was a DJI Mavic I think but I dont think it had night vision capability, at least it was never mentioned by Russell. The term "Evening" means different things to different people. Late afternoon may be considered as evening by some. To me evening is when the light starts to dim approaching sunset. In the valley the sun drops below the hills a bit earlier than the recorded sunset time in flat country.
 
Hi Motomike….please excuse my ignorance, when you say “not go camping solo or even in a pair’…..is it because they are concerned with misadventure or simply that it is so remote whereby it is dangerous to navigate. Again thank you for you insight.
There are a couple of reasons.
1. if you get into difficulty on a track like bogged or break down etc you will need help to either get out of the bog or rescue the vehicle or simply get your self out and back to civilization if the vehicle is not easily recovered.
2. The number of people who have 4WD now that go bush camping is ever increasing and as in all walks of life there are good people and the not so good people. Safety in numbers may be a better way of putting it.
 
Re the Mavic 2: We have one we bought in 2019 so it would be similar to the one in question. It has no real night vision capability, and wouldn't be able to make out faces, licence plates etc, without flying very low or even stationary near the target. People think drones can see into their bedrooms or pools from above etc - this is technically possible, but it has to be so close that it would be very obvious and annoying to people in its sights.

Unless it's equipped with a telephoto lens (some of the latest ones are) and Russell's may have had this option. But as an experienced camper I would think he would have known not to go buzzing people at their campsites.
 
I thought the same but 1 or 2 posters said earlier that it's not unusual at all. I've never known anyone who's changed the colour, just had it resprayed the same colour if there was any damage.
Way back in the day in SA, my father had our white Holden FX painted blue - as far as I know he wasn't a SK!:D
 
While CC had a very nice face for her age, she was 72 or 73. GL's wives were both slim attractive flight attendants, the 2nd wife a fair bit younger than him. I doubt there was a sexual element in this. However, as has been said many time before, anything might have occurred.

Are we allowed to wonder if GL was a SK under the subjudice contempt rules? If so, it's just as possible they came upon GL murdering someone, or disposing of a victims body, in which case he might kill both of them regardless of age and sex.

Was he watching Carol with binoculars, a voyeur?
 
they were saying in March that they could not account for the white dual cab, implying all others had been accounted for.
Yet, in November, "Police have eliminated all other cars of interest from their investigation, except for the blue Nissan",

Perhaps "accounted for" means a vehicle and its occupants at the relevant time have been identified the vehicle but a vehicle is only "eliminated" from their list when LE is satisfied that it was not involved in RH and CC's disappearance.
 
Greg Lynn didn't even attend his first wife's funeral.

'A close friend of hers revealed that her husband did not attend her funeral.
He believes life inside their perfect Mt Macedon home was not all it appeared to be.
It’s understood there were difficulties throughout their marriage.
“Greg’s friends are saying what a nice guy he is, but it is rubbish,” the friend said.
“Greg is very smart and totally self-centred. I attended Lisa’s funeral but Greg did not.”
Not long after Lisa Lynn’s death, the family home was sold and Mr Lynn took up a pilot’s job with Qatar Airways.'

Snipped from No Cookies | Herald Sun

Interestingly, though unconfirmed, people speculating Greg Lynn was seeing a woman in Doha whilst with Qatar and she seemingly 'disappeared'.
 
Ok the antenna would only take about 10 min max to put up and it would take less to take it down again. maybe 5 minutes max. Essentially it is a telescoping pole and a length of wire approx 40m long.
I dont know what time they got there, but I would think mid afternoon as they spent the previous night not too far away.
Zeka Spur track can be very rough and slippery, so depending on the conditions it would take anywhere from 1 1/2 hours upwards.
Not sure how long it would take to exit the valley via Talbotville but it would be 3-4 hours in good conditions I guess, more if the conditions were rough and slippery.
Depending on how long you intend to stay at a camping spot you set up more or less equipment. A quick overnight setup might take 1 - 1/12 hours I suppose.
Russell probably had a camera but I dont think he usually had a firearm when camping, at least not that I am aware of. He didnt go hunting in the years I knew him.
The drone was a DJI Mavic I think but I dont think it had night vision capability, at least it was never mentioned by Russell. The term "Evening" means different things to different people. Late afternoon may be considered as evening by some. To me evening is when the light starts to dim approaching sunset. In the valley the sun drops below the hills a bit earlier than the recorded sunset time in flat country.

Thanks Motomike. That helps a lot. The camera has not been listed as present or missing. And the timings are useful in building a time line.
 
Yesterday there was a brief discussion of a statement in a HS article which reported the observations of a "bushland worker" - presumably the black berry chipper referred to in the 60 mins documentary - comments here, here and here.
The relevant text of the HS article is:
It has emerged that Mr Hill was flying the drone above his isolated Wonnangatta Valley campsite in the hours before he and Carol Clay were murdered.
A bushland worker saw the elderly pair at the site on March 20, last year –believed to be the day they were killed.
The man said Mr Hill’s drone flew above campsites in the area just before nightfall.
..
The witness saw a man with a blue Nissan Patrol and trailer near the Wonnangatta campsite as early as Wednesday, March 18.
He said the man was odd and that he stopped to ask for advice on the best campsites. It is not known if the man was Mr Lynn.
Two comments, now I see the entire quote:
1. the way I read this is that the man asked the bushland worker for directions; presumably the bushland worker would already have a camp and would not need ot ask someone passing by where the best camps were.
2. the comment about flying the drone about "nightfall" is interesting.
We know that Mr Hill was speaking on HF radio to his fellow hobbyists, from 18:00 - 18:40. When he finished the conversation he said that it was getting dark. Allow 5 to 10 mins to take down and stow the antenna for the HF radio, as Motomike has pointed out (he suggested 5 mins).
Sunset was 19;20 but may have been maybe 15 - 20 mins earlier owing to Mr Hill being in the bottom of a valley. That puts it at 19:00. Of course there is some light after sunset, but in a valley the light fades fast. The point of this is that for Mr Hill to fly his drone he would have had to have had it airborne before 18:00, when he commenced speaking over the radio - or for a brief period after completing the radio call and stowing the antenna, say 18:45 or so.
 
It doesn't say why the guy found GL 'odd'. It just says:

"The witness saw a man with a blue Nissan Patrol and trailer near the Wonnangatta campsite as early as Wednesday, March 18.
He said the man was odd and that he stopped to ask for advice on the best campsites. It is not known if the man was Mr Lynn."

It isn't clear if this is the same person as the 'bushland worker' (maybe blackberry sprayer?) referred to in that article just before t his. The worker said RH was flying the drone above his and other campsites just before nightfall on the day he and CC were murdered.


I cannot access this, but possibly something new?
"Witnesses saw 'odd' man before campers vanished"....Does GL look odd? I thought he looks like he fits in up there pretty well?
(But then again, there were sooo many incredulous stories, of CC and RH being seen after the disappeared, a well dressed older woman looking out of place etc).
No Cookies | Herald Sun
 
I just checked. Police and prosecutors can amend charges, either way, prior to a trial. They can start with manslaughter or grievious bodily harm, but in the light of new information or the victim dies, amend the charge to murder. And they can add to the initial charges too. During a trial, prosecutors can accept a pleas to a less charge than the one the person is being tried on (for instance, thee accused is being tried for murder, but the prosecutor can agree to accept a plea of manslaughter). If a jury is involved, a jury can only acquit or convict of a lesser charges - for instance, one reads of a jury acquitting of murder but convicting of manslaughter.
Yes, that's so, but at the same time IMO its premature with the evidence that LE may have that they would suggest anything but murder as you mentioned it can be changed so for right now its probably what they have on the accused.
 
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