Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #6 *charges*

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JudgeJudi

JudgeJudi

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On Monday, the court heard the crown will be relying on phone records, the transcript of an “ongoing” interview, intercepted phone calls and digital surveillance material to prove their case.

The court heard 4 witnesses will be called to give evidence during the hearing, including ballistics expert Paul Griffiths and a forensics officer.

The Crown prosecutor reminded the court that Griffiths was unavailable for the duration of the four day hearing, and suggested the firearms expert could appear on another date.

The court heard his evidence was crucial to the case, particularly in terms of the “bullet trajectory”.

The bullet trajectory is more than interesting. I know this would be a horrific scenario, but perhaps RH was standing and CC was lying down. There would be no defence to shooting an unarmed victim who’s lying down, can’t cause him harm and can’t defend herself.

https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...s/news-story/cae0d4746b916462b98df1f5cd419a36
 
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Kemug

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I wonder if there had been an argument earlier in the evening, and then later when Carol and Russell were in their tent, maybe even asleep, GL entered and shot them both from above. In a way I hope that was the case, and that it may not have been as terrifying as we were thinking.
 
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5W's

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Kemug said:
I wonder if there had been an argument earlier in the evening, and then later when Carol and Russell were in their tent, maybe even asleep, GL entered and shot them both from above. In a way I hope that was the case, and that it may not have been as terrifying as we were thinking.
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As I had posted towards the beginning of this case if they were shot in their tent there may be a lot of blood splatter that would come on to him depending on how close he was to them at the time of shooting. So I guess we will have to see what is said at trial by the ballistics expert. I would think if this was the case they would be shot multiple times to make sure they had passed on.
 
NancyCoburn

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5W's said:
As I had posted towards the beginning of this case if they were shot in their tent there may be a lot of blood splatter that would come on to him depending on how close he was to them at the time of shooting. So I guess we will have to see what is said at trial by the ballistics expert. I would think if this was the case they would be shot multiple times to make sure they had passed on.
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Yes good point. The tent site (and possible murder site) would be an area GL didn’t go back to because he would’ve been off disposing of things and the camp site was found the next day or so. So even though the camp site was burned there could still be evidence of gunpowder, bullet holes, residue of a number of things. Possibly tyre tracks matching his car, or his dna on items such as RH’s door handles
 
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"4 witnesses will be called to give evidence during the hearing, including ballistics expert Paul Griffiths and a forensics officer".

This leaves 2 more witnesses that will be called besides the ballistics expert and the forensics officer.

From memory GL was arrested at the remote campsite soon after he had an argument with his wife and went bush. I believe police intercepted the "argument" and then quickly pounced so it appears that his house and phone both had listening devices implanted.

Perhaps his wife is one of the other persons that will be called to give evidence? Maybe he said something to her in that argument that led Police to move so quickly to arrest him within a few hours of him leaving the house?

I also doubt that he ever sold the trailer. I always thought that he disposed of it and the sale is just a ruse to explain why he got rid of it shortly after Russell and Carol disappeared.
 
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Detective Willy said:
I also doubt that he ever sold the trailer. I always thought that he disposed of it and the sale is just a ruse to explain why he got rid of it shortly after Russell and Carol disappeared.
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If he did sell the trailer, then presumably police would be able to locate it based on registration records.

I also doubt that he sold it and more likely disposed of it somewhere (possibly in dense bushland).
 
JudgeJudi

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Kemug said:
I wonder if there had been an argument earlier in the evening, and then later when Carol and Russell were in their tent, maybe even asleep, GL entered and shot them both from above. In a way I hope that was the case, and that it may not have been as terrifying as we were thinking.
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I agree that it may not have been as terrifying as it would have been over and done with quickly, one would hope, but how absolutely gutless to shoot 2 people not in a position to fight back or flee. That's an execution.

I think at this stage there can be little doubt that they were shot:

The court heard 4 witnesses will be called to give evidence during the hearing, including ballistics expert Paul Griffiths and a forensics officer.

JudgeJudi said:
The Crown prosecutor reminded the court that Griffiths was unavailable for the duration of the four day hearing, and suggested the firearms expert could appear on another date.

The court heard his evidence was crucial to the case, particularly in terms of the “bullet trajectory”.
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ETA: The magistrate said given the content of his statement and GL’s explanation for issues raised, Griffiths was a “pretty critical” witness.

In all probability Griffiths will be able to explain if the shooter was standing, his distance from the victims and the position they were in at the time. How sickening and coldblooded would it be if they were both lying down? We never heard if their sleeping bags were ever found, but they would have made convenient body bags for transporting the victims to the site where he burned them and probably the bags too.

Blood spatter would no doubt be the reason the tent was burned. It was a hot fire.
 
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JudgeJudi

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Detective Willy said:
From memory GL was arrested at the remote campsite soon after he had an argument with his wife and went bush. I believe police intercepted the "argument" and then quickly pounced so it appears that his house and phone both had listening devices implanted.

Perhaps his wife is one of the other persons that will be called to give evidence? Maybe he said something to her in that argument that led Police to move so quickly to arrest him within a few hours of him leaving the house?
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Dermot Dann, QC, revealed that GL’s lawyers were waiting to receive covert surveillance material that police had recorded from GL’s vehicle and home, including copies of listening device and telephone intercept material.

He said, “We don’t actually have any of the recordings or transcripts. If it’s relied upon, I’m not sure why it’s not provided to us”. Prosecutor Sparrow said those items would be ready to be given to the defence team by the end of November.

Stamper said there had been saturation coverage of the story in the media but it was only on 7 November that the image and sketch were released for the first time. If his wife didn’t suspect him previously, I find it hard to believe she didn’t recognise, or at the very least suspect, the blue car and trailer in the photo were her husband’s. She would also have been aware of the general areas where he went camping. I still think it's possible that the cause of the argument was his wife raising the issue of the similarity between his vehicle and trailer and the one shown on TV and in print media.

Just a reminder: There will be a 4 day contested committal hearing commencing 16 January.

Police weigh up fresh High Country search as accused killer contests murder charges
 
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Or of course, she may have said something joking, eg "Oh Greg, that looks like your jeep and trailer - ooh, I'm scared!", and been surprised by his reaction.
 
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Kemug

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JudgeJudi said:
In all probability Griffiths will be able to explain if the shooter was standing, his distance from the victims and the position they were in at the time. How sickening and coldblooded would it be if they were both lying down? We never heard if their sleeping bags were ever found, but they would have made convenient body bags for transporting the victims to the site where he burned them and probably the bags too.

Blood spatter would no doubt be the reason the tent was burned. It was a hot fire.
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And bullet holes in sleeping bags would explain why they have never been found, also blood of course. The shooter had to destroy the sleeping bags too.
 
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Yes. Shoot them through the tent. Then unhinge the tent and roll the tent up with the bodies inside the tent and sleeping bags. Minimal blood trails. Then drag the entire combination into the trailer. Then burn the site to clear evidence just like in the case of a torched car. Drive away with the tent, bodies etc in the trailer and plan a disposal location. I would be interested to know if that trailer ever made it home after that visit even though we know it no longer exists it seems ? Perhaps GL hid the trailer with the bodies and returned later to dispose of the bodies and then the trailer was dismantled and gotten rid of to inhibit any attempt to find the deceased's dna on the trailer.
 
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ScottToorak said:
Yes. Shoot them through the tent. Then unhinge the tent and roll the tent up with the bodies inside the tent and sleeping bags. Minimal blood trails. Then drag the entire combination into the trailer. Then burn the site to clear evidence just like in the case of a torched car. Drive away with the tent, bodies etc in the trailer and plan a disposal location. I would be interested to know if that trailer ever made it home after that visit even though we know it no longer exists it seems ? Perhaps GL hid the trailer with the bodies and returned later to dispose of the bodies and then the trailer was dismantled and gotten rid of to inhibit any attempt to find the deceased's dna on the trailer.
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Just trying to be helpful, but I think the tent was burned to the ground if I'm not mistaken, althought you could be right (your reasoning and description makes sense to me) maybe it was in tact.
 
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ScottToorak said:
Yes. Shoot them through the tent. Then unhinge the tent and roll the tent up with the bodies inside the tent and sleeping bags. Minimal blood trails. Then drag the entire combination into the trailer. Then burn the site to clear evidence just like in the case of a torched car. Drive away with the tent, bodies etc in the trailer and plan a disposal location. I would be interested to know if that trailer ever made it home after that visit even though we know it no longer exists it seems ? Perhaps GL hid the trailer with the bodies and returned later to dispose of the bodies and then the trailer was dismantled and gotten rid of to inhibit any attempt to find the deceased's dna on the trailer.
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Not sure two bodies in a tent and everything else could be moved by one man like that
 
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