Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

[AmandaSkis]

Last night, I was thinking a lot about this case and comparing it to other cases. Typically, when evidence/data seems confusing, it’s because of:
1) Big pieces or clues aren’t being revealed.
2) Someone is lying.

I decided to not assume that ANYTHING I have read is true, starting with the drone. We know RH had a drone. How do we know he had it with him on this trip?

What is the exact timeline from when RH picked up CC? Others have noted some large gaps in time.

Why do we think CC camped often? Her friends express surprise but all we know about is this one supposed trip. For all we know, they might have normally met in hotels.

 

[trujac]

Last night, I was thinking a lot about this case and comparing it to other cases. Typically, when evidence/data seems confusing, it’s because of:
1) Big pieces or clues aren’t being revealed.
2) Someone is lying.

I decided to not assume that ANYTHING I have read is true, starting with the drone. We know RH had a drone. How do we know he had it with him on this trip?

What is the exact timeline from when RH picked up CC? Others have noted some large gaps in time.

Why do we think CC camped often? Her friends express surprise but all we know about is this one supposed trip. For all we know, they might have normally met in hotels.

Yes, I agree. From the very beginning of RH and CC's disappearance it seems like the drone has been the focal point of the investigation and the reason why RH and CC were missing...just because the drone wasn't found at their burnt out campsite. It could very well be that RH and CC left the campsite willingly with their drone--either by themselves, or they went off with someone else not suspecting anything bad would happen.

 

[Satchie]

Andieinsyd, Yes...so why can't investigators find RH and CC? Somehow, in spite of RH's physical disabilities--he and CC seem to have vanished in thin air. There seems to me to be four major factors in this case. 1) The campsite fire 2) RH's locked truck 3) RH's medical disabilities/preventing him from walking any distance 4) RH and CC haven't been found, and their personal identification/belongings were found in RH's locked truck.
Setting aside theft, intentional murder...what might have happened was a chain of events that ended in their death...eliminating that RH and CC walked a distance from their campsite...(RH couldn't walk a far distance), and assessing the campsite fire--it seems possible the fire ignited spontaneously after the campsite had been abandoned unintentionally for several hours. What is left in the way of an explanation as to what happened to RH and CC??

I agree that not finding their bodies is why the case is so uncertain.

I don't know the terrain and ground cover and I wish I knew more, but I am very hesitant to assume that if their remains were in the vicinity, they would have been found.

For example, a man went missing in Joshua National Park in US: a place with no bushes or trees. His remains weren't found for 18 months, even though family had passed within 15 feet of his remains, and not far off the trail. Human remains found at Joshua Tree National Park have been identified as a missing Canadian man - CNN He was wearing earth toned clothing, and the body was on the slope above them.

The searches for a missing woman in Scotland passed repeatedly near her body, which was at the base of a tree with low, concealing limbs. A search by a close friend who, after 3 months, flew from the US found her remains quickly. A second search on Saturday located her corpse 25ft into the woods, just 100 yards off Loch Hoil Trail — which “significant numbers” of cops had used during their hunt (with cadaver dogs too).
How could cops have missed her?
100 yards is not that close: especially since she was also concealed by tree branches. Unless you were close to her and bent down and looked, she was invisible.

This is not to say they are nearby, just that to rule it out completely seems to me unwise in a wilderness area.

 

[trujac]

I agree that not finding their bodies is why the case is so uncertain.

I don't know the terrain and ground cover and I wish I knew more, but I am very hesitant to assume that if their remains were in the vicinity, they would have been found.

For example, a man went missing in Joshua National Park in US: a place with no bushes or trees. His remains weren't found for 18 months, even though family had passed within 15 feet of his remains, and not far off the trail. Human remains found at Joshua Tree National Park have been identified as a missing Canadian man - CNN He was wearing earth toned clothing, and the body was on the slope above them.

The searches for a missing woman in Scotland passed repeatedly near her body, which was at the base of a tree with low, concealing limbs. A search by a close friend who, after 3 months, flew from the US found her remains quickly. A second search on Saturday located her corpse 25ft into the woods, just 100 yards off Loch Hoil Trail — which “significant numbers” of cops had used during their hunt (with cadaver dogs too).
How could cops have missed her?
100 yards is not that close: especially since she was also concealed by tree branches. Unless you were close to her and bent down and looked, she was invisible.

This is not to say they are nearby, just that to rule it out completely seems to me unwise in a wilderness area.

yes, very good point. It is strange how missing people are found months, years later--in relatively plain view...Inattentional Blindness comes to mind. I am glad a new search for RH and CC is in the works.
Inattentional Blindness Can Cause You to Miss Things in Front of You
https://nobaproject.com/modules/failures-of-awareness-the-case-of-inattentional-blindness

 

[trujac]

Yes, I agree. From the very beginning of RH and CC's disappearance it seems like the drone has been the focal point of the investigation and the reason why RH and CC were missing...just because the drone wasn't found at their burnt out campsite. It could very well be that RH and CC left the campsite willingly with their drone--either by themselves, or they went off with someone else not suspecting anything bad would happen.

Now it seems like RH and CC knew each other/dated before they married other people. There seems to be a lot of cases were people who were close as teenagers/young adults forge a very strong bond not broken by time or separate marriages/family commitments. It does seem reasonable to think RH and CC met at other places beside camping in the Wonnangatta Valley. Talk about divine destiny...apparently, RH and CC took great care to conceal their affair for decades--now they affair is on national news because they are missing together. Makes me believe in the Law of Polarity.

 

[Catmommy]

I feel they're together, as they chose to be multiple times in the past. I hope that they are alive and happy and loving each other freely. If they are dead I hope they didn't suffer and were happy right up to the minute they stopped breathing. I feel they're still together. I hope they are.

 

[Panda]

I'm still of the view as in an earlier post - that the tent could have been set on fire as it was "personal". Although unlikely, I still feel it's a possibility that someone either knew where they camped or followed them, and someone had an ax to grind. The tent was set on fire because they slept in it and they were either murdered at the scene, which I think is more unlikely due to the seemingly lack of evidence, or they were taken somewhere else and murdered.

In any case, I think they were murdered and the tent was burnt in rage, or to get rid of any evidence. Let's hope the police solve it soon, to put everyone out of their misery!

 

[Kemug]

I know I am in a minority here, and I may soon/one day have egg all over my face, but I have never believed, and still don't, that the drone had anything to do with it. Sorry!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Police would still like to speak to anyone who was in the Wonnangatta Valley on March 19 and 20.

Police turn to overseas expert over missing Victorian campers mystery

 

[IainD]

Would you say that you did that more commonly when it was new? Is it easier to control with or without a phone?

ETA: thinking he might have just wanted to practise, since it was new.

I still like to practise flying manually as I like to keep my hand in and know that if I where to lose signal with the GPS through the app then I can still control the drone.
As for being easier with or without the app then for most people they would probably find it easier, as you can set altitude, flight path, hold position and a host of other things as well as return to home mode automatically.
For me personally I still use the app when I'm taking pictures and video as you can see through the phone exactly what the camera is seeing in real time and make adjustments for better pictures.
I hope all this makes sense lol....

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree that not finding their bodies is why the case is so uncertain.

I don't know the terrain and ground cover and I wish I knew more, but I am very hesitant to assume that if their remains were in the vicinity, they would have been found.

For example, a man went missing in Joshua National Park in US: a place with no bushes or trees. His remains weren't found for 18 months, even though family had passed within 15 feet of his remains, and not far off the trail. Human remains found at Joshua Tree National Park have been identified as a missing Canadian man - CNN He was wearing earth toned clothing, and the body was on the slope above them.

The searches for a missing woman in Scotland passed repeatedly near her body, which was at the base of a tree with low, concealing limbs. A search by a close friend who, after 3 months, flew from the US found her remains quickly. A second search on Saturday located her corpse 25ft into the woods, just 100 yards off Loch Hoil Trail — which “significant numbers” of cops had used during their hunt (with cadaver dogs too).
How could cops have missed her?
100 yards is not that close: especially since she was also concealed by tree branches. Unless you were close to her and bent down and looked, she was invisible.

This is not to say they are nearby, just that to rule it out completely seems to me unwise in a wilderness area.

I think the thing that sways me is that - if they were searching in the right areas - the dog squad were searching too.

The police seem to think Russell and Carol were removed from the area. To me that means that the dogs searched well in the area around the campsite. But Russell and Carol could have been taken anywhere outside that 2km (?) area where the searches happened.

It also makes me wonder where the dogs last scented Russell and Carol.
Did they scent them just in the immediate area? Did they sent them to the river? Did they scent them to nearby and then the scent stopped, as if Russell and Carol got into another vehicle? Did they not scent them at all?

 

[SouthAussie]

I still like to practise flying manually as I like to keep my hand in and know that if I where to lose signal with the GPS through the app then I can still control the drone.
As for being easier with or without the app then for most people they would probably find it easier, as you can set altitude, flight path, hold position and a host of other things as well as return to home mode automatically.
For me personally I still use the app when I'm taking pictures and video as you can see through the phone exactly what the camera is seeing in real time and make adjustments for better pictures.
I hope all this makes sense lol....

So, it sounds as if there was a good possibility that Russell would have had the app on. Being a beginner and probably not wanting to lose his drone in the scrub.

Does gps work well out in Wonnangatta Valley, I wonder?

 

[IainD]

So, it sounds as if there was a good possibility that Russell would have had the app on. Being a beginner and probably not wanting to lose his drone in the scrub.

Does gps work well out in Wonnangatta Valley, I wonder?

I should have added on my previous post that when the return to home mode is enabled then even if you lose GPS signal or the drone goes out of range then it should have returned to where it set off from, most high end drones are pretty accurate with this feature.
The only thing that makes me think Russell was flying without the app is LE say they cant find any data recorded.

 

[kiwijayne]

It seems the police are turning to overseas for help

https://7news.com.au/news/missing-p...td1Xq8yPm3fP0CqbR6JeXGt-oMxhrQLYeA43ZkX1fpRYE

 

[SouthAussie]

I should have added on my previous post that when the return to home mode is enabled then even if you lose GPS signal or the drone goes out of range then it should have returned to where it set off from, most high end drones are pretty accurate with this feature.
The only thing that makes me think Russell was flying without the app is LE say they cant find any data recorded.

Or he didn't get the opportunity to fly the drone at all.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Missing campers mystery slowly coming together

A staged disappearance? A marijuana crop? A freak injury? Police liken solving the case of missing High Country campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay to putting together a jigsaw puzzle without the box lid. But six months on from their disappearance detectives are slowly building a picture of what went on, writes Mark Buttler.

Behind a paywall but some who subscribe may be able to see more


Category: <span> </span> | Herald Sun

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder if the overseas help could be satellite imagery for the time period in question.

 

[they'll get you]

I'm no expert just a hobbyist, but I fly my drone manually quite often without having it connected to the app on my phone. If RH was doing that then there wouldn't be any data on his phone.

Say if the phone has no service where the drone was flying?

 

[they'll get you]

It seems the police are turning to overseas for help

https://7news.com.au/news/missing-p...td1Xq8yPm3fP0CqbR6JeXGt-oMxhrQLYeA43ZkX1fpRYE

There's been a couple of murders in Australia where help was sought from overseas. I can't remember what that help was. DNA profiles, phone pings?
Was it in the Ristevski case? Anyone remember?

 

[they'll get you]

I feel the porridge had already hit the fan. I think the cops should be looking closer at the Mrs. and the ham radio crew who knew where they were.
Imagine being married all those years, your husband has retired and he's off spending your hopes and dreams with another woman.
How strained was Russell and Robyn's marriage? The wording in this article makes me suspicious.

His wife of 50 years, Robyn, previously told the Herald Sun she had no idea her husband was out camping with another woman.

They left on March 19, with Mr Hill contacting his wife over high-frequency radio a day later. He has not been seen since.

Vital new evidence discovered after pair mysteriously disappear from campsite