Australia - Siege/Ambush at Remote Property - 6 Dead Including 2 Police/Neighbor - Wieambilla (Queensland)

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I’m curious to hear what the witnesses next week have to say about the relationship between Gareth and Nathaniel. Nathaniel excels at army training, but Gareth fails, so Nathaniel gives up this career opportunity. Because he loves Gareth or because Gareth couldn’t handle it? Nathaniel marries Stacey and they have kids, then Gareth moves in, takes over this relationship, and now becomes Stacey’s new husband and father role towards the children. Nathaniel stays for awhile, but eventually leaves. He apparently excels at his career as a teacher. He has a heart attack and deteriorates in all sorts of ways, including strong personal grievances against the Education Department. Then he abandons his career and goes back to his brother, the one who it seems forced him out of his own family? Lots of people love their siblings but this is really something else.

There was some kind of weird symbiotic relationship between Gareth and Nathaniel.

It reminds me of parasitism. Where one benefits, and the other has resulting negative experiences.

Do you think that maybe Nathaniel was afraid of Gareth (maybe for good reason) - who was deemed psychologically unfit for the army - and therefore went along with whatever Gareth wanted? Not strong enough to break free and stay free?

imo
 
No, they both applied to join the army when they were younger. Gareth failed the psych exam. Nathaniel was marked as officer material, but he opted out in solidarity and studied to become a PE teacher instead.

There is now a Part 2 to this informative article via an ABC Podcast ..


@sunnybree the podcast addresses a lot of the issues you raise in the above post …. And the timeline leading up to the diabolical event of the shootings…

IMO
 
Do you think that maybe Nathaniel was afraid of Gareth (maybe for good reason) - who was deemed psychologically unfit for the army - and therefore went along with whatever Gareth wanted? Not strong enough to break free and stay free?
I think it is possible that Nathanial’s cardiac arrest (and resulting hypoxic brain injury, IMO) played a significant role in the brothers relationship …. Making NT very vulnerable, to his brothers ideologies, and the dire consequences that followed …

Until then, NT had managed to break away, and stay free ….and was living a successful life …

JMO
 
I’m curious to hear what the witnesses next week have to say about the relationship between Gareth and Nathaniel. Nathaniel excels at army training, but Gareth fails, so Nathaniel gives up this career opportunity. Because he loves Gareth or because Gareth couldn’t handle it? Nathaniel marries Stacey and they have kids, then Gareth moves in, takes over this relationship, and now becomes Stacey’s new husband and father role towards the children. Nathaniel stays for awhile, but eventually leaves. He apparently excels at his career as a teacher. He has a heart attack and deteriorates in all sorts of ways, including strong personal grievances against the Education Department. Then he abandons his career and goes back to his brother, the one who it seems forced him out of his own family? Lots of people love their siblings but this is really something else.
I think the three of them were potentially in a relationship, Nathaniel moved away for a while and then the three adults got back together.

Nothing much has been said about the correspondence on their phones between the three of them.

I wonder if SMS messages or other comms between them might shine a light on the nature of their relationship.
 
There is now a Part 2 to this informative article via an ABC Podcast ..


@sunnybree the podcast addresses a lot of the issues you raise in the above post …. And the timeline leading up to the diabolical event of the shootings…

IMO
Omg, the partner of Nathaniel (before he died) is covered under an interim suppression order.

Wow.
 
I’m curious to hear what the witnesses next week have to say about the relationship between Gareth and Nathaniel. Nathaniel excels at army training, but Gareth fails, so Nathaniel gives up this career opportunity. Because he loves Gareth or because Gareth couldn’t handle it? Nathaniel marries Stacey and they have kids, then Gareth moves in, takes over this relationship, and now becomes Stacey’s new husband and father role towards the children. Nathaniel stays for awhile, but eventually leaves. He apparently excels at his career as a teacher. He has a heart attack and deteriorates in all sorts of ways, including strong personal grievances against the Education Department. Then he abandons his career and goes back to his brother, the one who it seems forced him out of his own family? Lots of people love their siblings but this is really something else.
An interesting read….

Wieambilla police killers' father reveals estrangement following child sex abuse allegations - ABC News
'Bewildered': Trio made shocking allegations against parents years before deadly ambush
 
Then McCrow was shot in the back and legs while trying to crawl to cover.

She pleaded with Gareth Train before he fatally shot her in the head at close range, the inquest heard.



I hadn’t realised that Rachel had been able to try and crawl for cover, (good on her and how brave) previously I had thought she was shot next to Matthew in the middle of the driveway..

IMO
 
Todays Proceedings

Wieambilla inquest into cop deaths to hear about shooters' motives​

By Cheryl Goodenough • AAP
8:28am Aug 12, 2024

Witnesses due to testify in Brisbane Coroners Court on Monday include a forensic psychiatrist who was asked to provide an expert opinion on the Trains' mental states before and during the incident.
An academic who has provided a report identifying the political, religious and ideological influences that shaped the Trains' actions is also scheduled to take the stand.



 

Wieambilla inquest day 10: Expert forensic psychiatrist says Train trio were most likely delusional​

Text messages and diary entries of Gareth, Nathaniel and Stacey Train in the months leading to the Wieambilla police massacre have been examined at the inquest.
 

Wieambilla coronial inquest told how Gareth, Nathaniel and Stacey Train shared their delusions​



The trio who gunned down two police officers and their neighbour shared a persecutory delusion that led to them planning the fatal ambush as way of preparing for the second coming of Christ, an inquest has been told

Consultant forensic psychiatrist Andrew Aboud said after examining the case he found the trio had been experiencing symptoms of a shared psychotic disorder. Dr Aboud said the Trains suffered from identical persecutory and religious beliefs and delusions at the time of the fatal ambush.

The inquest was told Gareth was the primary and Stacey and Nathaniel acted as secondaries to the shared delusion.

“In the Trains’ case, persecutory beliefs of the delusional intensity and religious beliefs of a delusional intensity.

“They start to bring the ends of different beliefs together into something that is systematic.

“In the case of the Trains, this became the impact of Covid, the meaning of Covid, its vaccinations and the issues related to their religious beliefs … that all made sense in terms of a second coming of Christ.”
 

Wieambilla massacre was ‘suicide by cop’, inquest hears​

Nathaniel, Stacey and Gareth Train suffered delusions and had no intention of being captured alive, hearing into Queensland shootings told

“And so when they engaged in their behaviour on the 12th of the 12th, (20)22 they were not intending to be apprehended alive.”

He said they also likely did not intend to flee.

“The only other possibility is that they might have seen an opportunity to still reach their original primary destination, which was a forecast date in early 2023 that they believed was a date that they would reach religious salvation through the second coming of Christ”

Gareth believed that Asio was using biochemical neurological weapons to infect masses of people – including himself – by using Learjets as part of a plot for control. He believed it so strongly he even fired at the jets, Aboud said.

Those beliefs were later passed to the other two through a disorder known as a folie à deux, or a shared delusional disorder.
 

Wieambilla massacre was ‘suicide by cop’, inquest hears​

Nathaniel, Stacey and Gareth Train suffered delusions and had no intention of being captured alive, hearing into Queensland shootings told

“And so when they engaged in their behaviour on the 12th of the 12th, (20)22 they were not intending to be apprehended alive.”

He said they also likely did not intend to flee.

“The only other possibility is that they might have seen an opportunity to still reach their original primary destination, which was a forecast date in early 2023 that they believed was a date that they would reach religious salvation through the second coming of Christ”

Gareth believed that Asio was using biochemical neurological weapons to infect masses of people – including himself – by using Learjets as part of a plot for control. He believed it so strongly he even fired at the jets, Aboud said.

Those beliefs were later passed to the other two through a disorder known as a folie à deux, or a shared delusional disorder.
Also in this article …

Dr Aboud recommended mental health assessment be made mandatory for any person to receive a firearms licence.

Will be interesting to see what the coroner does with that recommendation … ???
Apart from the fact that mental health system in Australia is already in crisis. The demand far outweighs the supply….


IMO
 
The trio responsible for the Wieambilla massacre believed they were “fighting alongside Jesus” in a battle of good and evil by gunning down police and a neighbour in 2022, a coronial inquest has heard.

Deakin University associate professor Josh Roose testified on Tuesday that Stacey, Nathaniel and Gareth Train called their front gate “the Rubicon”, a reference to the river crossed by Julius Caesar and his army that precipitated Roman civil war.


Roose said the Rubicon “adopted symbolic significance” for the Trains.

“The moment that threshold was crossed they were at war and they considered themselves to be in a battle against demons,” he said.

Snip

Roose completed a report more than 350 pages long, after reviewing hundreds of emails, texts, handwritten notes and online posts and communications by the Trains, with other conspiracy theorists including American Donald Day Jr.


 
New Episode of The Ultimate Sacrifice has dropped ….

There is this new information …

we wanted to let you know about an unexpected development in the Coronial Inquest. Aidan Train, the son of Stacey and Nathanial Train, made an application for dismissal that was granted by the coroner.

In other words, he will now not be called to give evidence at this Inquest. We won't be hearing from Aidan Train.”


From The Ultimate Sacrifice: Episode 11: The Madness of Three, 13 Aug 2024
This material may be protected by copyright.

Along with a few others now not being called …
 
New Episode of The Ultimate Sacrifice has dropped ….

There is this new information …

we wanted to let you know about an unexpected development in the Coronial Inquest. Aidan Train, the son of Stacey and Nathanial Train, made an application for dismissal that was granted by the coroner.

In other words, he will now not be called to give evidence at this Inquest. We won't be hearing from Aidan Train.”


From The Ultimate Sacrifice: Episode 11: The Madness of Three, 13 Aug 2024
This material may be protected by copyright.

Along with a few others now not being called …

It’s a good call. I’m not sure he’s going to able to provide any further material insights. They’d probably already have a statement from him.

Feel terrible for those kids as well.
 

‘Morally insane’ Wieambilla killers believed in plot to turn humans into ‘meat suits’, inquest hears​

Nathaniel, Stacey and Gareth Train shared ‘paranoid delusions’ and did not intend to be captured alive, inquiry into Queensland shootings told

The “morally insane” trio responsible for the Wieambilla massacre believed the Covid-19 vaccine was being used as part of a plot to turn people into “non-humans” wearing “meat suits”, an inquest has heard.

He said that Gareth – the “primary” instigator – likely had a longstanding paranoid personality disorder, perhaps stemming from a traumatic injury to the brain suffered at birth.

Aboud recommended mental health assessment be made mandatory for any person to receive a firearms licence.
 
Train's wife is set to give evidence at the inquest on Thursday at the Brisbane Coroners Court. (Today)

Nathaniel Train's wife is expected to testify about her observations of the behaviour of Gareth, Stacey and Nathaniel Train in the years and months before the shootout.


The woman is due to testify in particular about the missing person report she made concerning Nathaniel Train in December 2022 and the days between that report and the shootings.


 

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