Australia Australia - Tanja Ebert, 23, Roseworthy, SA, 8 Aug 2017

[sleepinoz]

The trustees would be legal entities with strict instructions about what the trust could be used for. I don't think the owner can be the trustee under the law. The trust takes it out of his legal obligations as a private person. Much like a limited company. You can sue the company but not the individual.

The trustee(s) (there may be more than one) of a trust may be a person or a company (the latter is known as a corporate trustee).

The trustee may also be a beneficiary, but not the sole beneficiary unless there is more than one trustee.

Under trust law, trustees are:

personally liable for the debts of the trusts they administer,

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Trusts/Trustees-and-beneficiaries/

Trusts can be set up however you like (legally). Trustee's have to comply with the law and the 'Trust Deed', which can be different for every trust.

I'd still like to know who the trustee and beneficiaries are, maybe just Michael Tanja and the kids, could include the step-kids, either of the ex wives etc etc.

I don't think he would have set it up so Tanja would get much at all, seems his father didn't pass too much on to either of his wives as he still had the property.

Probably flogging a dead horse though.
:deadhorse:

 

[sleepinoz]

It is possible that the father instigated the trust, being not 100% convinced of Michaels capacity to last the distance in the light of the first son's brief life. The dad may have also believed that at 36 , 37 Michael didn't have the experience or the wisdom which would come in time with an advisory board like the trustees...

The age of Tanja and her inexperience in station management would have been a huge factor if the trust was instigated by the father , as well.. Maybe the dad saw something in the union that concerned him, worried him , particularly if children came into being, he dying before they were born, but he would have foreseen that probability.. perhaps a trust was all he could do, nothing he could speak about but something he sensed about the combination of Michael and Tanja and Oulnina Park. ......

The Trust wasn't commenced until after the father passed. I imagine the father had his own trust prior to his passing, he has somehow managed to hold onto the property after 2 marriages.

 

[Trooper]

Yes, but his estate would have been his personal belongings and his personal bank account. The trust removes him from ownership of the property. She would not have been entitled to that. There is probably a clause in the trust of how to deal with wives that don't last the distance or wives that need to be divorced. A decent settlement, but not one that puts the property in jeopardy. That is what lawyers are for.

I think she becomes stake holder in the pastoral lease, ie, the property upon marriage... the trustees would be obligated to assign her , upon divorce, say, or some incapacitation, eg, she takes a fall off the trail bike and becomes a paraplegic needing constant care, this would fall under the trust management, PLUS under her being signatory to the lease, being , in law, Mrs Burdon, even if she didn't call herself that. She comes under 2 jurisdictions, Family law and Pastoral law. That is what she is under AU law, the wife of Michael Burdon, regardless if she called herself Ebert.. ....

the courts in Au are full of this sort of delightful filigree embroidery tort law, and like Jarndyce and Jarndyce, it can , and does go on for generations....

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/578059-jarndyce-and-jarndyce-drones-on-this-scarecrow-of-a-suit

 

[Trooper]

Such a lonely death..well.... I suppose all deaths are, but ... out on the Barrier Highway, the immense darkness , such a long way from home for her, not just Oulnina Park,

And like all those deaths that husbands bring to their wives, the haunting thing is, how the hell would they know she was dead, before they leave her?.. Allison, hurled off a bridge into the muddy swamp, Karen, half buried in a tree stump on a cold mountain, who the hell are these men to imagine they can pronounce death? .. Tanja, left somewhere off the bitumen in the freezing desert night , maybe the hum of a very few cars, about 1 every 5 hours that travels down there keeping her helplessly alert, or somewhere on that vast parcel of sheep run, a few moments of consciousness, knowing she is about to die..

It is the terrible callousness of him driving off, rugged up , probably with gloves , whether it was on the property of off the highway,, he drove off back to the homestead, he left her out there, alone, fatally injured, perhaps dead, perhaps only dying, it is the Australian nightmare, lost in the bush, come to haunt us all.

How does a person do this?... he goes back and looks into his sons eyes... what does he tell them?...... what does he tell himself?...

 

[MelmothTheLost]

that archery hobby has haunted me ever since it was mentioned here on websleuths.. I think by you, TGY...... it crossed my mind that one of the reasons he didn't want her body found was because of the manner of death, eg, the bow and arrow, hunted across the spinifex plain in the dusk.....

Then, because he shot himself, it occurred to me that he probably shot her, but that presupposes a terrific premeditation, ie , he packed the gun secretly in the car before the journey commenced.... murder well and truly on his mind.

Whatever method he used, it is mostly certain that she didn't get a chance to fight back, no one has mentioned any damage to him... which makes the swift and silent arrow probable.

In years past I did some archery. With the exception of bow hunting, which I think is mostly a US thing, all archery in the west is at static targets. Target archery does not prepare you to bring down a moving target, especially if it is dodging around and trying to hide in the bush.

 

[Oona]

This statement from Superintendent Bray made me think:
"It's actually quite rare for people to commit a murder and not to tell somebody," Superintendent Bray said."We encourage anyone with information to contact police."

Who might he have told? His mother?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-19/tanja-ebert-search-scaled-back/8823242

 

[Trooper]

This statement from Superintendent Bray made me think:
"It's actually quite rare for people to commit a murder and not to tell somebody," Superintendent Bray said."We encourage anyone with information to contact police."

Who might he have told? His mother?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-19/tanja-ebert-search-scaled-back/8823242

Maybe not so much as 'told' his mother, but perhaps things were said that put her antenna up and it was her that rang the police.... certainly a relative did, , I assumed it was a relative of Tanja , ( her brother was very close to the pair of them, and spent 6 months of the year working at Oulnina Park during the lambing season, then back to Germany doing other stuff ) ...

That property is where her son, Mark, Michael's elder brother , had committed suicide 20 years ago, ( he was employed at the station, the father didn't own it at that time ) where her ex husband died 3 years ago, and now where her remaining son shoots himself after murdering her daughter in law.... she would see Oulnina Park in a different light to most, I would think....

behind a paywall in the Adelaide Advertiser, it says that Tanja left her job at the pub to work on the property.... that Burdon went to high school in Port Lincoln ( which is where I think his mother lives , travelling from Port Lincoln up to Mannahills....long haul ,) that he then did a university degree in Management at Flinders U, ... that she had many friends who visited and stayed, her brother being a regular for the last 5 years , for long periods of time, working as a station hand...

Maybe he was one of those rare ones, who don't tell anyone anything. .. he looks sort of closed in, to me, in pics, but hey, what do I know, maybe his silence alerted his mother, or the fact that he called her in to help with the children on what would be very short notice..... .. right out of the ordinary..

Maybe he was fending off calls from Germany from the brother in a weird manner...... .. ... we'll know when the coroner does his inquest... I cant see that being a closed inquest... the mother would have a say in that, but crime , being public and in the public arena , I don't think it would have much of a go at being shut down .....

those poor mothers of both of them...

 

[Pi Thoughts]

It's 2 weeks today since Tanja went missing.

This may be a moot point however the video clip of her and the family at the Museum show Tanja wearing orange/mustard colour jeans and black jacket..

[video=youtube;isknd6pCCzo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isknd6pCCzo[/video]




Whereas the description provided when she was reported missing stated that she had Purple jeans and a blue cardigan???

Tanja Ebert is Caucasian appearance, slim build, 165 to 170cm tall, blue eyes, blonde hair and a German accent. She was last seen wearing purple jeans and a blue cardigan.
https://www.police.sa.gov.au/sa-pol...ersons/missing-woman-tanja-ebert#.WZvt22eQyUk

 

[Oona]

It's 2 weeks today since Tanja went missing.

This may be a moot point however the video clip of her and the family at the Museum show Tanja wearing orange/mustard colour jeans and black jacket..

[video=youtube;isknd6pCCzo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isknd6pCCzo[/video]




Whereas the description provided when she was reported missing stated that she had Purple jeans and a blue cardigan???

Tanja Ebert is Caucasian appearance, slim build, 165 to 170cm tall, blue eyes, blonde hair and a German accent. She was last seen wearing purple jeans and a blue cardigan.
https://www.police.sa.gov.au/sa-pol...ersons/missing-woman-tanja-ebert#.WZvt22eQyUk

I noticed that discrepancy too. Maybe the person (husband) that described what she was wearing was not aware that the cctv from the museum would emerge?

 

[Pi Thoughts]

I noticed that discrepancy too. Maybe the person (husband) that described what she was wearing was not aware that the cctv from the museum would emerge?

I've been wondering if she actually was murdered the next day when she was dressed in purple jeans? I feel there is some significance here however we may never know unless her remains are found.

 

[kelynn]

In regards to Michael claiming they stopped at a service station on Main North Rd - Police confirmed this, Michael exited the vehicle and went into the shop, bought 2 energy drinks and 2 milk drinks, and got back in the car and they left. CCTV footage captures the vehicle but the windows are tinted too dark to see in.

I've tried to find a source but I can't, I'm sorry - maybe it was a police press conference I watched live, but I definitely saw a police officer confirm specifically Michael went into the service station and bought 2 energy drinks and 2 milk drinks, and the tinted windows meant they couldn't see who else was in the vehicle with him.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

That property is where her son, Mark, Michael's elder brother , had committed suicide 20 years ago,

As a matter of interest, how did Mark die?

Is there any possibility that his death wasn't suicide?

 

[ediethedog]

hello all...it's been a long time... the trust thing is super complex. it is also extremely expensive and specialised.....I was left a "testamentary trust" by my late father, hugely complicated and the trust had its own tax file number etc.....all trusts are slightly different but all have the same result in the end.......tax breaks and protection of any assets or property that fall under the trust. Mine was over 20 pages of legal jargon. I guess what I'm saying is that it is a web that is hard to comprehend even with all the documents . Having said that, I'll ask around and see what I can find. Good to see some old friends......once again , it's a heartbreaking and horrible case .........
x

 

[Trooper]

As a matter of interest, how did Mark die?

Is there any possibility that his death wasn't suicide?

I couldn't find , on the web, the coroners finding about Mark Burdon's death , it occurred in 1997 and the web records don't go back that far but some one in Adelaide could sashay into the Cor. Office and peruse it at their leisure... ( hint ) ...

Michael Burdon would have been 21 at the time, I don't know how much older his brother was, but at the time, he ( Mark ) was employed as a station hand on the property Oulnina Park, ( and while I am at this point, does anyone else feel that it is a bit creepy that the dad bought the property where his first son killed himself, then lived on it, then put his second and remaining son in charge of?.. odd or what? Myself, I'd buy clear across the continent, but sheep folks have their odd outlooks )

So without knowing the manner of death, it's difficult to allow oneself to follow that thought... I , from a small episode of big station experience, would presume rifle. Or single inexplicable car or trailbike accident. I cant find anywhere if Michael was on the property, he was doing a Uni degree in Management at U of SA ( I wrote Flinders U before but I was wrong) at about that age.... .....

But of course, it wouldn't need Michael to actually be there at the place to be involved in the death... phone, letters, all could play a part, and was a love interest involved?.. the people around Manna Hill and Oulnina Park , the old timers, they would know......

 

[Trooper]

In regards to Michael claiming they stopped at a service station on Main North Rd - Police confirmed this, Michael exited the vehicle and went into the shop, bought 2 energy drinks and 2 milk drinks, and got back in the car and they left. CCTV footage captures the vehicle but the windows are tinted too dark to see in.

I've tried to find a source but I can't, I'm sorry - maybe it was a police press conference I watched live, but I definitely saw a police officer confirm specifically Michael went into the service station and bought 2 energy drinks and 2 milk drinks, and the tinted windows meant they couldn't see who else was in the vehicle with him.

:greetings: excellent point and working on the plan that this service station is in Roseworthy, was he bright enough to play this for the camera>?..... 4 drinks, instead of 3?... it isn't improbable, .... that she was dead before Roseworthy, but removed and hidden after........ ..

 

[Trooper]

hello all...it's been a long time... the trust thing is super complex. it is also extremely expensive and specialised.....I was left a "testamentary trust" by my late father, hugely complicated and the trust had its own tax file number etc.....all trusts are slightly different but all have the same result in the end.......tax breaks and protection of any assets or property that fall under the trust. Mine was over 20 pages of legal jargon. I guess what I'm saying is that it is a web that is hard to comprehend even with all the documents . Having said that, I'll ask around and see what I can find. Good to see some old friends......once again , it's a heartbreaking and horrible case .........
x

:goodpost: I agree , all trusts are tailored specifically to the situation, but the end goal is the same, generally speaking.

Perhaps the Mum did it to protect the two little boys, since at the time the trust was instigated, there was no marriage. to make sure those boys retained not just the name but the heritage, so to speak.. And, perhaps, who knows, in the light of her other sons' suicide, perhaps Mum had one of those moments where you cover all the bases while mentally confronting the very worst circumstance... .. although I don't think she could have foreseen this outcome in her worst nightmare.

 

[ediethedog]

:goodpost: I agree , all trusts are tailored specifically to the situation, but the end goal is the same, generally speaking.

Perhaps the Mum did it to protect the two little boys, since at the time the trust was instigated, there was no marriage. to make sure those boys retained not just the name but the heritage, so to speak.. And, perhaps, who knows, in the light of her other sons' suicide, perhaps Mum had one of those moments where you cover all the bases while mentally confronting the very worst circumstance... .. although I don't think she could have foreseen this outcome in her worst nightmare.

Trooper , I couldn't agree more. The more I look at what little info of the trust and pty ltd , the more probable that is. A lot of info on the actual station and its history etc is public , however finding the trusts......another story. Frustrating as hell.......I know that Michael Hutchence mum and sister are still looking for his trusts .....all these years later. He was a friend of my husband, back in the day......that money is god knows where.
My son is doing law ... only 2nd year, so far from a solicitor, but he said that any old suburban solicitor can draw up standard trusts.....he told me off for over simplifying things....and also he said I inferred that ALL trusts were complex, this is not true I'm told.

My Dad had an extremely detailed Testamentary trust drawn up for his estate, even though I am his only child.....major big kahuna probate lawyers , why I will never know.

I guess my point is any old Tom Dick and Harry can hide money in trusts, but what issues was she anticipating? That poor woman. Was she divorced from Dad/ grandpa? I can't find that bit of info again...Things look grim on the station, times are tough from the look of pics.... It seems from public records that there are multiple people ( unrelated?) living on the station too.............which is normal , but they seem to have a common surname.....

when my very own Saul Goodman gets home I will pick his brains more.
I had a friend who worked for ASIC but he's left now.....damn it. He was handy. I do have access to some cool law sites of previous cases thanks to my son, but only when he is feeling generous....or doesn't change the password.....

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Interesting article from someone who had met Tanja


It seems increasingly likely that Tanja Ebert was murdered by her husband Michael Burdon, who then took his own life. However, instead of framing this as a most extreme act of domestic violence it has been portrayed more like a preordained romantic tragedy, writes Elke Wakefield.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/08/24/tanja-ebert-murder-domestic-violence/

 

[Oona]

Interesting article from someone who had met Tanja


It seems increasingly likely that Tanja Ebert was murdered by her husband Michael Burdon, who then took his own life. However, instead of framing this as a most extreme act of domestic violence it has been portrayed more like a preordained romantic tragedy, writes Elke Wakefield.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/08/24/tanja-ebert-murder-domestic-violence/

Great article.
It is time people stopped making excuses for farmers and rural men that murder their wives and families. IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[they'll get you]

The Trustee and Guardian will do everything from Powers of Attorney, wills and property management among many other things.
If someone is incapacitated they will practically do everything to management their welfare and property.

I do believe once they take over a property the family has Buckleys of getting anything back from them. I was told after an aged owner died it took 3 years for the the property to be sold and the 5 years for the beneficiaries to get their money which wasn't much after all the costs were taken out.

http://www.tag.nsw.gov.au/managed-clients.html