Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[Rocket333]

As I have understood it (correct me if I'm wrong): Google does not understand the mode of movement. Google plots the route and calculates speed. Users should edit in order to insert the correct mode.

In Theo's case Google plotted Theo's route every 15 seconds.
Theo walked at 7kms/hr for the first 4min and 40sec before reaching the end of Tennyson. There he stood still for 7 minutes after which he crossed the fields at a speed higher than 7kms/hr.

It's unknown at what speed he crossed the fields. He could have been running at say 10-15km/hr. Or: on a motorcycle at the same low speed of 10-15km/hr.

He probably ran .....

The family have all the route, speed, spatial and timing data.

 

[Rocket333]

He’s gone to Tennyson to meet someone. Troubles erupted and he and another or others have bolted as they were being chased back down Tennyson and couldn’t make it safely over to the Marvel/Jonson Street side. They’ve hightailed it across the oval to the Milne track and then deviated off onto a less used scrubby path to hide and avoid the chasers. They’ve come out on the beach and continued into CC and stopped. A couple of hours later the chasers may have found them.
Why else would you stand somewhere for 7 minutes then turn on the spot and run like the wind all the way to a dark, deserted beach track, then down a tricky off-shoot track? His caps gone flying and he hasn’t stopped if the google tracking thing is right. Only a local would know how to get there directly, and as I keep saying I bet there’s a girl involved.

 

[sparks030405]

I’ve read and heard enough now to believe Theo was confronted by a youth gang down the end of Tennyson Street (eshay style thugs), and it seems the Byron Bay community and Police are so intimidated by them that they will not address this probable scenario for fear of repercussions. Yes, the local police have kids/families too, so I kind of understand their hesitancy. The following article and the replies from parents are disturbing to read what is/has been happening in the Byron area for a number of years now.
Eshay-style thugs heading nowhere without intervention – Echonetdaily

The police appear to be too intimidated to interview these known youth gangs about Theo’s disappearance and it seems from the article above, that nobody would be willing to report them either for fear of reprisal. So how can we ever find out what happened to Theo if only the gang members know, the locals won’t report to the police, and the police won’t confront them?

I’ll take it as fact that Theo was confronted by a gang for 7 minutes that may have included escalation to try and make him fight. Perhaps he got away and was chased up Milne Track, and possibly caught where his hat was found, and then taken to CC, or otherwise was chased all the way to CC where he tried to find a route up the steep bush behind the beach, but was brought back down to the beach. This gang could then have made Theo tell them his passcode to unlock his phone for future use/or to sell for money, and between them, worked out a little plan to send those short messages back to family/friends.

From there, it is still possible a 4WD was used to take him away, or thrown in ocean. Not sure if ‘The Judge’ is related. Could have belonged to one of them.

These gangs are from South Golden Beach and Ocean Shores, north of Byron Bay Town Centre.

I am so sorry to Theo’s family for writing this, but it is just what I feel is close to what happened.

 

[Chiatos]

Theo's mobile phone was obviously above water on June 1st when it pinged for the last time. Phones can't ping under water.

If the phone was snatched by some and if someone has been using it (with another phone number), it can still be traced.

Has police even tried?

 

[T-dawg420]

When I was in Byron bay I was eating lunch across from the Byron bay information centre on Johnson st and honestly it didn’t look inviting at all. Was gonna go and eat lunch in the park there but a fair few dodgy looking people around, so ate ate the establishment, and this was lunch time!

The courtesy bus that dropped Theo off that night dropped them off at the Byron information centre. I think it was last Thursday or Friday a online news site ran an article about how railway park has been known to be quite rough and dodgy, that’s right next to the Byron bay information centre.

I’ve often wondered if something might have happened as they got off the courtesy bus, maybe nothing more than Theo was influenced later to avoid this area on his way home?

He decided to go the back way, where it’s more residential and not the main drag full of the drunk and drugged up people possibly? Furthermore he sees that if you take marvel it brings you out straight onto the railway park section of Johnson so he’s avoided nothing, so decides to completely avoid the nightlife (cos he could have gone from marvel into Middleton) cut through the track from Tennyson to Gilmore cres, straight out to the beach, beach walk home?

I know it would be dark as at the end of Tennyson, it’s a good 100+ meters past marvel st, why go down there if you aren’t purposely meeting someone?

The only reason I can realistically think of is cos to the uneducated on byron bays apparent dark underbelly (esp at that location) maybe going through that path at the end of Tennyson didn’t seem dangerous at all?

 

[BusterXP]

Theo's mobile phone was obviously above water on June 1st when it pinged for the last time. Phones can't ping under water.

If the phone was snatched by some **** and if someone has been using it (with another phone number), it can still be traced.

Has police even tried?

The IMEI would be recorded in a database the same with other lost or stolen phones that are reported.
If any attempt was made to use the phone, regardless of the sim, then a trigger would be set off.
I suspect the phone was found and someone tried to start it up resulting in that last ping. Phones don't start by themselves. Remote possibility it was stolen.
His Oppo phone is only IP54 rated. It won't last long in the water.

 

[Jables333]

Unfortunately, we do not hear all that is going on in the background and some things may not be published on the LFTH facebook page or in MSM for many reasons. A lot of information would be kept between the family. those assisting the family and police.

It does make it hard for us to try and piece things together.

I believe that you are talking about a tower dump?

That information would need to be requested by the police with telcos but yes it does exist just not to the public. (dang it)

Yes, I leared that from SouthAussie. Hopefully the police have requested this. Or an ethical hacker has found a way...

 

[sparks030405]

I’ve read and heard enough now to believe Theo was confronted by a youth gang down the end of Tennyson Street (eshay style thugs), and it seems the Byron Bay community and Police are so intimidated by them that they will not address this probable scenario for fear of repercussions. Yes, the local police have kids/families too, so I kind of understand their hesitancy. The following article and the replies from parents are disturbing to read what is/has been happening in the Byron area for a number of years now.
Eshay-style thugs heading nowhere without intervention – Echonetdaily

The police appear to be too intimidated to interview these known youth gangs about Theo’s disappearance and it seems from the article above, that nobody would be willing to report them either for fear of reprisal. So how can we ever find out what happened to Theo if only the gang members know, the locals won’t report to the police, and the police won’t confront them?

I’ll take it as fact that Theo was confronted by a gang for 7 minutes that may have included escalation to try and make him fight. Perhaps he got away and was chased up Milne Track, and possibly caught where his hat was found, and then taken to CC, or otherwise was chased all the way to CC where he tried to find a route up the steep bush behind the beach, but was brought back down to the beach. This gang could then have made Theo tell them his passcode to unlock his phone for future use/or to sell for money, and between them, worked out a little plan to send those short messages back to family/friends.

From there, it is still possible a 4WD was used to take him away, or thrown in ocean. Not sure if ‘The Judge’ is related. Could have belonged to one of them.

These gangs are from South Golden Beach and Ocean Shores, north of Byron Bay Town Centre.

I am so sorry to Theo’s family for writing this, but it is just what I feel is close to what happened.

I think it’s time the authorities do what I suggested months ago... bring in excavators and start digging for a body at Cosy Corner. If these youth are the sons of surfy locals from the smaller coastal townships around Byron, they will be surfers and gym goers with strong bodies/arms. Hence their keenness to get into fights for the joy of knowing they are stronger. A group of them could easily dig a nice big deep hole in the sand in under an hour.

 

[mussopossum]

As I have understood it (correct me if I'm wrong): Google does not understand the mode of movement. Google plots the route and calculates speed. Users should edit in order to insert the correct mode.

In Theo's case Google plotted Theo's route every 15 seconds.
Theo walked at 7kms/hr for the first 4min and 40sec before reaching the end of Tennyson. There he stood still for 7 minutes after which he crossed the fields at a speed higher than 7kms/hr.

It's unknown at what speed he crossed the fields. He could have been running at say 10-15km/hr. Or: on a motorcycle at the same low speed of 10-15km/hr.

He probably ran .....

I recreated this at same speed and I was a fast-paced walk. Based on the time between the points I was never running. I also walk 7 km an hour for my morning walk and again I dont run, it was still at same speed and I had my phone in my face most the time looking up stuff and still kept my speed.

When you put something in google it asks you what your method of transport is, in this case for Theo it was walking so Google would give you an estimated walking speed and time to reach that destination walking (which was 8 min). But Google doesnt allow for jogging or running scenarios to tell you an ETA.

I just wish we had more peices to the puzzle

 

[mussopossum]

Theo's mobile phone was obviously above water on June 1st when it pinged for the last time. Phones can't ping under water.

If the phone was snatched by some **** and if someone has been using it (with another phone number), it can still be traced.

Has police even tried?

The R17 is a dual sim phone.

One the questions I asked was did Theo have two sims. One for stuff he did every day the other for anything he didnt wants seen or detected.

Or one that he gave new friends or people on the trip as may not have wanted to give out his real number.

The dual sim can be used same time as far as im aware.

I was under the assumption the phone could only be traced with the sim? to its owner. The owner can do this themselves however if phone is lost or stolen I cant remember if the service provider can legally do it or not?

 

[Rocket333]

I think it’s time the authorities do what I suggested months ago... bring in excavators and start digging for a body at Cosy Corner. If these youth are the sons of surfy locals from the smaller coastal townships around Byron, they will be surfers and gym goers with strong bodies/arms. Hence their keenness to get into fights for the joy of knowing they are stronger. A group of them could easily dig a nice big deep hole in the sand in under an hour.

Could a phone ping register if buried under sand?

 

[sparks030405]

I think it’s time the authorities do what I suggested months ago... bring in excavators and start digging for a body at Cosy Corner. If these youth are the sons of surfy locals from the smaller coastal townships around Byron, they will be surfers and gym goers with strong bodies/arms. Hence their keenness to get into fights for the joy of knowing they are stronger. A group of them could easily dig a nice big deep hole in the sand in under an hour.

They need 24/7 security guards at Cosy Corner last mobile ping site until excavation is completed to prevent the body being removed by the gangs or their parents. If the authorities won’t organise it, the locals should find some willing earthworks contractors and just go and do it. It’s public land and the community should do what they need to to show these gangs they are not running the town.

 

[Rocket333]

I recreated this at same speed and I was a fast-paced walk. Based on the time between the points I was never running. I also walk 7 km an hour for my morning walk and again I dont run, it was still at same speed and I had my phone in my face most the time looking up stuff and still kept my speed.

When you put something in google it asks you what your method of transport is, in this case for Theo it was walking so Google would give you an estimated walking speed and time to reach that destination walking (which was 8 min). But Google doesnt allow for jogging or running scenarios to tell you an ETA.

I just wish we had more peices to the puzzle

When I look up directions in Google maps it always assumes walking unless I change it. Is this the norm? If Theo looked up the direction to Wake Up he wouldn’t choose the mode of transport surely, as all he’d be after is where is Wake Up from his current location - the directions.

The data the cousin found showed walking then running. This would be separate intel the phone gathers somehow wouldn’t it? It’s not reliant on Theo entering how he’s getting there right?

 

[SouthAussie]

When I look up directions in Google maps it always assumes walking unless I change it. Is this the norm? If Theo looked up the direction to Wake Up he wouldn’t choose the mode of transport surely, as all he’d be after is where is Wake Up from his current location - the directions.

The data the cousin found showed walking then running. This would be separate intel the phone gathers somehow wouldn’t it? It’s not reliant on Theo entering how he’s getting there right?

I think it is possible that Theo typed in 'Byron Beach' for his destination - not knowing the names of the individual beaches - if he wanted to walk the beach back to Wake Up hostel.
If he mostly used google maps in walking mode that would have been what it defaulted to. Mine defaults to driving because that is what I most use it for.

His beach-walking route would have been down initially-very-dark Middleton Street, according to my google maps. Possibly he adjusted that route, as we can do, to take him down the brighter, more open Tennyson Street. Or maps would have self-adjusted once he walked past Middleton and got closer to Tennyson.

 

[SouthAussie]

The data the cousin found showed walking then running. This would be separate intel the phone gathers somehow wouldn’t it? It’s not reliant on Theo entering how he’s getting there right?

Just to answer this part of your post .... the whole article is interesting in learning what google maps can tell you, without even asking.


Walking, cycling and driving are harder for Google to calculate, because there are no geofenced points of entry for these modes of transport. It is therefore likely that, once bus, train and metro have been eliminated from the mix, Google simply inspects the time taken between harvested geolocation data to calculate the transport mode used.
Google knows you took the bus: on the creepy accuracy of Google Maps Timeline | CityMetric

 

[SouthAussie]

The R17 is a dual sim phone.

One the questions I asked was did Theo have two sims. One for stuff he did every day the other for anything he didnt wants seen or detected.

Or one that he gave new friends or people on the trip as may not have wanted to give out his real number.

The dual sim can be used same time as far as im aware.

I was under the assumption the phone could only be traced with the sim? to its owner. The owner can do this themselves however if phone is lost or stolen I cant remember if the service provider can legally do it or not?

IMEI number can be tracked.


Every time a phone uses a particular network to make or receive a call, send or receive a message, its IMEI number is automatically emitted and tracked. Because the police and service providers have databases in which these ID numbers fall into white and black lists, an owner can report his/her IMEI number and make it blacklisted after a theft.
https://www.gearbest.com/blog/how-to/how-to-use-imei-number-to-track-your-lost-android-phone-2531

 

[Rocket333]

Just to answer this part of your post .... the whole article is interesting in learning what google maps can tell you, without even asking.


Walking, cycling and driving are harder for Google to calculate, because there are no geofenced points of entry for these modes of transport. It is therefore likely that, once bus, train and metro have been eliminated from the mix, Google simply inspects the time taken between harvested geolocation data to calculate the transport mode used.
Google knows you took the bus: on the creepy accuracy of Google Maps Timeline | CityMetric

Thanks SA. That is an interesting read. "Google Maps is in a unique position to mark the differences between journeys that are entirely spontaneous and journeys that are pre-planned, because it is measuring both."

The podcast doesn't mention Theo searching for Tennyson, Milne or Cosy Corner. Just Wake Up.

I guess the best that we can glean from his journey is that he went from CMs to CC, and picked up speed along the way.

 

[Rocket333]

I think it is possible that Theo typed in 'Byron Beach' for his destination - not knowing the names of the individual beaches - if he wanted to walk the beach back to Wake Up hostel.
If he mostly used google maps in walking mode that would have been what it defaulted to. Mine defaults to driving because that is what I most use it for.

His beach-walking route would have been down initially-very-dark Middleton Street, according to my google maps. Possibly he adjusted that route, as we can do, to take him down the brighter, more open Tennyson Street. Or maps would have self-adjusted once he walked past Middleton and got closer to Tennyson.

Good thinking. Theo inadvertently wanders into a gathering at the oval and tells someone he wants to see the lighthouse at night and they go "follow me/us".
He keeps WU directions on his phone based on his latest location, so that he can always see where he is in relation to the town and get himself home. Therefore only searches for WU show.

 

[Harriettehighpants]

Maybe he kept searching wakeup beca use he knew he was running out of battery on his phone? So he kept reminding himself of the route just in case he had to go without maps?

 

[mussopossum]

IMEI number can be tracked.


Every time a phone uses a particular network to make or receive a call, send or receive a message, its IMEI number is automatically emitted and tracked. Because the police and service providers have databases in which these ID numbers fall into white and black lists, an owner can report his/her IMEI number and make it blacklisted after a theft.
https://www.gearbest.com/blog/how-to/how-to-use-imei-number-to-track-your-lost-android-phone-2531

So in this case SA, seeing as the owner of this phone was missing at the time and bit of a different situation, would it have had to of been police to request this information to attempt to locate the phone? I would really like to know if this has been done TBH.

Surely the police would have done this?