Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by Beagle, Jun 8, 2019.

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  1. sillybilly

    sillybilly WS Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    ADMIN NOTE:

    When this thread reopens, all new members will have read The Rules of posting at Websleuths. Those rules are also linked in my signature and when you have read them, please "Like" this post to indicate that you have done so.

    Of those rules, pay particular attention to:
    Etiquette & Information
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    There are no Verified Insiders in this case, so any information that is stated as fact must be substantiated with a link to MSM or LE resources. If your information is not able to be supported by an MSM link, it will be removed, along with all responses to it. If however you know Theo or have inside information that you would like to share, you must become a Verified Insider in order to post that information without the requirement to provide MSM links. The process to becoming a VI is linked
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    WS is victim friendly. There is no information in MSM that Theo was involved in drugs or that drugs are involved in any way, so please do not speculate in that regard. Your post will be removed.

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    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019


  2. sillybilly

    sillybilly WS Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    This thread is open again.

    Reminders:

    No personalizing, rudeness or bickering. If someone offends you, do NOT respond but use the Report feature to let WS staff know there is an issue and we will review it.

    And remember ... no link, no post unless you are a Verified Insider. If you are not a VI and state information as fact, your post will be removed, along with all responses to it.

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  3. BusterXP

    BusterXP Well-Known Member

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    Something that has baffled me and I can't test it myself walking due to a bad knee. If someone can with an Android phone it would be great.
    I'm not disputing that they have detailed records of Theo's movement up to a point.
    With location services for me I only get points and straight lines between them while driving. I sometimes have to go into services and answer 'were you at...'.
    The claim is that the data they have recorded every 7 seconds. It seems, at least when driving, that there's a trigger to prompt a location. I don't know how this works with walking. For GPS to kick in every 7 seconds would be a huge drain.
    Can someone go for a reasonable walk with a recent Android phone and see what location services says?
    Not doubting they have the data but I'm intrigued if Theo may have been navigating and the choice to do so isn't showing up in the records.
     
  4. Ann764

    Ann764 Active Member

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    Thank you I think most of us are awaiting the next podcast for further on point discussion. It was a shame to see the thread closed. However I agree it was necessary particularly when individuals were using the forum to communicate negatively towards one and other. It was unfortunate to read .
    Glad it’s re opened and let’s keep it that way
     
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  5. T-dawg420

    T-dawg420 Well-Known Member

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    Every time I start to think something could have happened to theo at the top of Tennyson I immediately get drawn back to his phone being used at cosy corner, the messages in French and the watching of the YouTube video (although the French messages weren’t overly complex and the YouTube video was only on for a minute fifty or something).

    But I just can’t imagine Theo going on that journey to cosy corner with either himself or someone else, esp at a fast pace! I walked this exact journey during the day and it gets quite hazardous in parts during the day. Finding the path was relatively easy, then the gps of Theo’s phone obviously followed the fire trail, not the Milne track, it is a lot more open then the Milne track, which veers off to the right as the fire trail goes straight. This is a fire trail, so a vehicle has to be able to travel through there, and it can. Which brings me to my next point. If in fact Theo did go this route, at the crossroads the trail goes left out onto tallows beach road, it’s the biggest and most open of the possible paths to follow, why did he not follow that? Even if he couldn’t see the road at that time of night, it would be right there on maps, go left, out onto the road, a lot easier route than going right. I know going right takes the person in the direction of the beach but from the crossroads it’s still a fair trip through thick, black, scrub at night to get to the beach (the path gets to a point where during the day it was hard to see which way to go).

    If you’re at the crossroads why go right? It would be so much easier to go left out to tallows beach road.

    Also, why go that way at all from Tennyson? If you gps down to cosy corner from anywhere around Tennyson/byron recreational grounds it gives multiple options, but they all eventually end up Going to Lawson st, down tallow beach Rd, they don’t go anywhere near the Milne track.

    But above all he apparently didn’t google the way to cosy corner.. he googles multiple times the direction back to wake up, but doesn’t google the way to CC.

    So Theo travels to the end of Tennyson to a place was said on the podcast that locals don’t even go anymore. Waits 7 mins and then travels to a track where gps doesn’t take you, and that’s a pitch black bush trail at night, and to which there is a route that’s safer and by road (all the way to the tallows beach car park anyway).

    And why would you follow pretty much a stranger or strangers through that dark bush track! At fast speed!

    It just does not make sense at all!
     
  6. BusterXP

    BusterXP Well-Known Member

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    Google from Cheeky Monkeys to Tallow Beach gives Milne Track as an option.
    I brought that up early before I knew there was a map. They must have released the map to some around that time because they started to search around there.
    My idea was that if a young guy wanted something to do then a doof at CC might be the go and he started to head in that direction.
    I picked Tallow Beach. CC is a little less known. But Tallow Beach extends further south so GM brings you out further south.
     
  7. BusterXP

    BusterXP Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to the admin for reopening this so soon. I thought we'd be in for a long time out. Appreciated!
     
  8. Chiatos

    Chiatos Well-Known Member

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    Oh, thanks for explaining. I thought you meant that that path was merely a goat track.
    In the aerial photo it seems to be a significant path. Theo or whoever had the phone could have proceded his/her way towards the lighthouse using that path.
     
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  9. mishachilli

    mishachilli Member

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    I agree with you 100%. IMO the only reason you would avoid the lit Tallows car park is if you don’t want to be seen.
     
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  10. T-dawg420

    T-dawg420 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I did that too and saw the leads to the Milne track.

    However it doesn’t take you up to the end of Tennyson. And if you go to the end of Tennyson, gps doesn’t take you back to the Milne track.

    Whomever had the phone didn’t use the Milne track, they used the fire trail, IMO it shows local knowledge, as there is no map that takes you down the fire trail, Esp the path that was taken at the crossroads of the fire trail.

    Also I don’t see how he met someone on purpose at the end of Tennyson. The podcast tells us he is kicked out without his prior knowledge, so how does he get kicked out, and then go and meet someone at Tennyson?

    Did the person/s he was going to meet at Tennyson just happen to be there when he got kicked out?

    Was the person/s person able to make it to Tennyson once they were alerted that Theo was kicked out?

    There are 7 mins he is there, so it could be the case yes to either, but it seems a tad far fetched

    According to the podcast Antoine says there were no plans for anything to happen after cheeky monkeys.

    If Theo had plans for anything after CM then he didn’t inform Antoine, that seems a tad strange as well. Here’s a bloke he befriends on fb that day, they travel to bottle shop to get wine, have a bbq at wake up and then go to CM, why wouldn’t Theo inform him of any plans to go to CC, even if Antoine didn’t want to go there surely Theo would at least ask him?
     
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  11. BusterXP

    BusterXP Well-Known Member

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    Possibly more established because it is used. Years ago they still had goats at The Cape.
    Possibly bigger since it's used more.
    Up until 2013 they still had goats at The Cape.
    What happened to the famous goats of Cape Byron lighthouse?
    If we were to assume Theo did use that trail you mentioned then I'm wondering if that ledge may have been covered by the tide later on. Tide was low when he went missing?
     
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  12. BusterXP

    BusterXP Well-Known Member

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    Tennyson might have been a diversion with nav still set for Tallow Beach? The nav will adjust but the destination of Tallow is still down south.
    But then the info says he wasn't navigating. Maybe someone else was?
    I'm tending to think there was purpose in all the locations he went to though.
    I'm ok with him not contacting Antoine. They spent some time together but could just be fellow travellers with a connection to home.
     
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  13. T-dawg420

    T-dawg420 Well-Known Member

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    I think him not contacting Antoine after he was kicked out is fine, after all he was kicked out and Antoine was apparently with a woman so totally understandable IMO.

    I think what I’m saying is if Theo’s big plan was to go to CC after CM then surely at some point earlier in the day/night Theo would have told Antoine about those plans, esp if there was a party down there, why not tell the one person you seem to have made a bond with about a party?

    I don’t see Theo organising going to CC via Tennyson before being kicked out of CM. If he in fact went there IMO it was either improvised after being kicked out or wasn’t his plan to go there at all.

    It just doesn’t sound like the actions of someone who likes to plan everything, and according to his god father is someone who is very responsible.
     
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  14. mishachilli

    mishachilli Member

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    If Théo did follow a local or locals down Milne track and through the very precarious bush trail then why was he running? There is no evidence to suggest he was running from danger if we are to believe him using his phone to watch YouTube etc at CC. Perhaps he was running towards CC but there’s nothing in the phone records to suggest he met anyone at the beach and nobody has come forward to say he was meeting them either. So why run? I could understand if his phone tracked him running through the bush track and then the phone activity ended. Then, I’d almost be inclined to believe he ran into trouble and trouble followed him to CC. But based on the phone activity, that theory doesn’t add up. There are no signs from his outgoing phone activity that he was in trouble whatsoever. Either you run to escape danger or to get somewhere fast. And in both scenarios I cannot place him on YouTube immediately after, only then to later disappear. Furthermore, if Theo is running then we can presume that the person he’s following is also running too. In which case, wouldn’t Théo enter Tallows Beach into GM in case he got lost / fell behind or even just for his own assurance that this person was taking him the right way!!? As we have heard repeatedly from locals, there is no possible way Théo could have gone that way on his own without using GM. I lived in Byron 8 years and never knew that path existed and I’ve been at Tallows and CC many times. The theory that makes more sense for me is that he hit trouble in those 7 mins at the end of Tennyson, and then someone else uses his phone to place him far away from the scene. Only a local could run that bush track at night IMO. Using their own phone it wouldn’t be hard to google a few key words in French. IMO.
     
  15. BusterXP

    BusterXP Well-Known Member

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    Possibly after being asked to leave or during his time at CM. He may have received info there or after. Or maybe he had heard about CC and decided to go after he was asked to leave.
    The 3 big questions for me:
    1. Was someone with Theo when he went to CC?
    2. How was he parted from his phone?
    3. Who turned the phone on the next day? I'm assuming it was turned on.

    I reckon 'someone knows something'. At least, there's the possibility of some interaction with others after he left CM. At least sighting and maybe contact. I'm not implying wrongdoing.
     
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  16. BusterXP

    BusterXP Well-Known Member

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    Then we might come back to the ability to access the phone via login at CC. It has been mentioned maps might have still kept it unlocked but I'm not sure on that. They do but for how long when the phone isn't nearby? Potential security breach there. It would need to be tested.
     
  17. mussopossum

    mussopossum Well-Known Member

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    NoCookies | The Australian

    DAVID MURRAY
    NATIONAL CRIME CORRESPONDENT

    A series of Instagram images — discovered after the launch of The Australian’s investigative podcast series, The Lighthouse — shows travellers around a campfire at Byron’s Tallow Beach.

    These photographs are dated Friday, May 31, the night Theo went missing.

    What if this group of individuals or some of were backpackers? What if Theo met some of or one of them at Cheeky Monkeys before he was asked to leave or at the hostel at the BBQ?

    Maybe one of them left CM and was at the end Tennyson St and that was why Theo went that direction and then followed them to the beach. Theo is not in any of these photos however we do not know what time these photos were taken.

    What if he was heading to this gathering by the fire on the beach as had been told about it by fellow backpackers at the hostel or someone he met at CM.

    Maybe he never made it to the campfire as was steered in a different direction and like some suggested he might have been showing someone that youtube video as they chatted.

    Maybe this group on the beach never saw Theo that night. IMO I cant imagine that they would have photos up on SM of them at Tallows Beach had they seen anything or been involved. But that is just my opinion and absolutely no speculation that any are involved.
     
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  18. Rocket333

    Rocket333 Well-Known Member

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    If he and another or others we’re being chased from the oval and down the fire trail, they may have veered off into the bush/beach track to escape, and then just kept bolting right to the end of the beach. It would have to mean he was following someone who knew the area, and that once they made it to CC they may have felt like they were in the clear. JMO.
     
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  19. mishachilli

    mishachilli Member

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    I believe it’s been established that maps will keep a phone active in which case passcode / fingerprint won’t be required. And then phone may have been kept active using YouTube.
    It’s certainly possible. But if Théo and others were being chased it doesn’t explain why only Théo is missing and why the others who were also being chased haven’t come forward.
     
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  20. BusterXP

    BusterXP Well-Known Member

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    It isn't established that navigation was active when the messages were sent and the YouTube video was viewed. Maps don't keep the phone unlocked - navigation does.
     
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