NOTGUILTY Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #11

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by MsAnais, Aug 9, 2014.

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  1. CleverKnot

    CleverKnot Former Member

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    My quote is being used out of the context it was given.

    Someone asked *why* the jury was not allowed to use what he did after she fell, or what he was holding in the picture to determine his guilt or innocence.

    I used a hypothetical to aid in making my point, in order to hit home why it was irrelevant in determining why she went over the balcony.

    At no time, was any evidence produced, that what was in his hand, was used to force her off of the balcony. Even if you could identify what is in his hand, which you cannot, there is nothing to tie it to why she went off the balcony, especially at the time of deliberations.

    Most everyone here vilified the juror that posted on Instagram, and have questioned the intelligence of the jury as a whole. The judge obviously felt the same way when he received the question. It was a signal that one or more jurors were trying to play CSI, and hanging the jury up with what was in his hand. My hypothetical, (what if they could identify the object), was intended to make one realize that yes, even if it was a cheese knife, then it didn't really play a part in anything else presented, clangy noises or not. They were deliberating. No evidence was given that any object forced her off the balcony.

    At no time did I state that LE shouldn't be trying to look for it, trying to identify it, or otherwise. Obviously, they should have, and potentially should still be aware it could surface. I even speculated in that same post, that it could be something containing video of the altercation.

    It could have also been his weed stash he didn't want LE to find, or an embarrassing sexual aid he also didn't want LE to find. No one knows. Thus, the judge forced the CSI jurors to stop focussing on something that couldn't help the case along to a verdict.
     


  2. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    If many of the not-guilters were to be believed, there was never a chance of a guilty verdict.

    However, the fact that the judge did not dismiss the case at the end of the prosecution submissions, and the fact that the defence submitted an application to declare a mistrial after a juror took to social media, does not support this.

    I think the judge was wrong to ignore that juror's actions. It's not just posting on social media that is the problem, the mere fact that they were on social media during the deliberations, and reading anything, could have influenced the outcome.
     
  3. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    It is a pretty sad state of affairs when so many are so dissatisfied with the result of this trial. Not just on here. But in our everyday lives, too. I'm hearing it from people I know that have no clue that I am a WS member, and probably have never even heard of WS.
    But I guess there is nothing that can be done about it now.
    As someone stated before, there have been several cases like this in the US, where people have been very unhappy about the trial results.
    Sometimes the law and the system just don't seem to get it right.

    imo
     
  4. TheOtherChristina

    TheOtherChristina truth & empathy

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    Now, that's just not true.

    Here's your post: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Paradise-Aug-2014-10&p=12881938#post12881938

    And here's the post of mine you quoted in that post: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Paradise-Aug-2014-10&p=12881910#post12881910

    You were answering the (rhetorical) question, "how can dumped evidence ever not be relevant?"

    And to be 100% crystal clear, when I use the word "evidence" I mean in the sense of the investigation rather than the narrow confines of evidence presented at trial.
     
  5. Bohemian

    Bohemian Well-Known Member

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    'If the 30-year-old Gold Coaster charged with the murder of his Tinder date Warriena Wright in August, 2014, had any concerns about the potential, imminent loss of his liberty, he certainly never showed it.'

    'Each day that he sat in the Brisbane Supreme Court dock, his face betrayed no hint of any nerves.

    Tostee had pleaded not guilty and clearly genuinely believed in his innocence.

    He clearly had faith the key piece of evidence at trial, the secret recording he made that captured the final hour of his date with Ms Wright, would be the means by which the jury would exonerate him.'

    <modsnip>

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...s/news-story/bd0fc9a634f74b63a62cca14c82d3d96
     
  6. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl ...

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    One thing I learned by following this case is that there's a LOT of men out there who who just really hate women. I saw a lot use this case as a platform for expressing their general contempt on a wide variety of levels from mildly sexist to bona fide psychotic, and I found that pretty disturbing.

    Don't they have sisters, wiives, mothers, daughters, female friends? Does their contempt apply to them as well, or only women who are sexually available (or un-available, as it may be in many cases, heh).

    I saw the terms "feminazi" and "Man hater" thrown around a lot, sometimes aimed at me (which, if you knew me in my daily life, you'd fall about laughing at) -because I took up for the victim and not at all for Tostee. Like, that is the automatic assumption to make when a woman speaks up for another woman, in any instance. I get that there's terrible women in the world, and there's those who make it their life's work to take advantage of men. But yeesh... some of the hate I saw is just a festering hole in these people. It was actually scary - and I don't mean just thinking about potential violence, I mean on a societal level, and a personal level for the men themselves. Because I actually really LIKE men, and it's sad to see that so many are so emotionally damaged, on such a fundamental level. How are they ever going to be happy, going through life like that?

    How'd they get that way? Is it genuine hatred, because of their own bad experiences, or just hamming it up for the brahs? (I saw many who were clearly pretty genuine tho..). How have women contributed to this hateful perception of an entire gender? Is it OTT backlash against actual man-hating gender politics? If so, why let it affect them so deeply? Do they feel threatened? Have they been done wrong one too many times? Are they not able to own up to making bad relationship choices?

    I understand there's probably all that and more in the mix. And who are the women dating these guys? How do they see all this, how do they see themselves? I saw women also take up a fairly hateful stance on other women. Is it cool now, to despise other women? Idk. Smh.

    Just some thoughts/questions that came up as I watched a broader issue of gender politics play out in the background of this case. It made me sad, to observe such a tangible divide on such a scale.It

    It's weird to be accused of being a 'feminazi', almost funny (except it isn't) - IRL I'm more often criticised for views that favour men (ie, if you choose to stay at home with the kids, that's your damn *job* so treat it like one or lose the right to complain about getting fired). It didn't wound me at all, but it made me look more deeply at this apparently growing backlash or whatever it is.
     
  7. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    [h=1]Tostee murder trial: Last-ditch bid to stop the trial[/h]
    Justice Byrne said it was &#8220;apparent that both breath and voice&#8221; were restricted, and it &#8220;does sound as though he may well have had his forearm around her throat&#8221;.
    But he said the critical question was Mr Tostee&#8217;s intent &#8212; if any &#8212; at the time. Justice Byrne had earlier listened to the audio without the jury and *remarked that Ms Wright &#8220;sounds to be utterly terrified&#8221;.
    Justice Byrne said it was &#8220;apparent that both breath and voice&#8221; were restricted, and it &#8220;does sound as though he may well have had his forearm around her throat&#8221;.
    But he said the critical question was Mr Tostee&#8217;s intent &#8212; if any &#8212; at the time. Justice Byrne had earlier listened to the audio without the jury and *remarked that Ms Wright &#8220;sounds to be utterly terrified&#8221;.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...l/news-story/7e3f1761416c438c60ec0c9dfea36c43

    I can only post 10% due to WS TOS
     
  8. Morrisa

    Morrisa Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking that the non existent emotion and even weight gain from Tostee is perhaps the result of medication?
     
  9. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    That would not surprise me at all. He apparently has an anxiety condition, among other things. And the lead up to the trial, as well as the trial itself, would likely exacerbate that.


    The man accused of murdering a New Zealand tourist on the Gold Coast has been diagnosed with a social anxiety and alcohol disorder, the Supreme Court in Brisbane has heard.
    Justice Debra Mullins told the court a psychiatrist diagnosed Tostee with social anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder and alcohol use disorder.
    The psychiatrist said Tostee was not suffering from an autism spectrum disorder.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-...erer-has-social-disorders-court-hears/5900308
     
  10. Bohemian

    Bohemian Well-Known Member

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    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...s/news-story/bd0fc9a634f74b63a62cca14c82d3d96

    'Psychopathy is a disorder that characterizes an individual showing pronounced emotional deficits and an increased risk for displaying antisocial behavior ( Frick, 1995;Hare, 2003). The affective component of psychopathy, often called callous-unemotional (CU) traits, is the distinguishing feature of the disorder relative to other behavioral profiles associated with an increased likelihood of antisocial behavior (Blair, 2007). CU traits refer to a lack of guilt, remorse, and empathy (Frick et al., 2005).

    While it is past antisocial behavior that is particularly important in predicting future criminal activity (Walters, 2003), it is CU traits that are at the core of developmental trajectory associated with psychopathy (Frick and White, 2008). The disorder is developmental. It has been shown that CU traits in particular and the psychopathy more generally are relatively stable from childhood into adulthood (Lynam et al., 2007; Munoz and Frick, 2007). In addition, the functional impairments seen in adults with psychopathy (e.g., in responding to emotional expressions, aversive conditioning, passive avoidance learning, reversal learning, extinction) are also seen in adolescents with psychopathic tendencies.'

    An Introduction to Psychopathy
     
  11. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    A relevant excerpt I just re-read seems to support something being quite wrong in Tostee's mental makeup.


    "How Mr Tostee has behaved - for example recording as a matter of routine all his encounters - [suggests] that you're dealing with someone that perhaps doesn't behave the way that you would treat as the norm," Justice Mullins said.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-...erer-has-social-disorders-court-hears/5900308
     
  12. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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  13. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    From Amee's link. A very good example of a lawyer not wanting to know something about their client. I'm sure Dore knew he was dealing with a headcase, and it wasn't considered pertinent to his defence as to why Tostee is a creepy recorder.

    Wilkinson asked Mr Dore if he knew why Mr Tostee made the recordings, but he said he never asked.
    "I never needed to know, to be honest with you."
     
  14. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    I know a lot of men who really don't hate women. (I gave birth to four of them lol!). I have seven Brothers, my Dad...None of them are misogynistic. So Keep the faith! :loveyou:

    I suppose it would make sense, that there would be a greater percentage of misogynists in those who are Tostee supporters, birds of a feather and all ...
    Tostee clearly hates women, and has no use for them, except as objects in his sick fantasies:

    "Earlier posts had him saying he, &#8220;banged two girls tonight. First one was 4/10 not worth mentioning didn&#8217;t look like her pics and I couldn&#8217;t even finish&#8221;

    He is a flat out predator:

    "He had previously boasted online in chatrooms of making girls feel special on Tinder by sending replica messages with a typo, so they seemed unique."

    "In person, he had been described as - initially, at least - confident and charming. But nightclubs had banned him because of his unsettling and unsavoury behaviour."

    "Tostee would go out four or five times a week, usually by himself. Sometimes he would spend the night drinking just water, no ice. Bar staff say he would usually still be there as they closed up, trying to speak to intoxicated girls. "

    That seems to be his MO. The more intoxicated the woman, the less able to recognize and protect herself from Evil. Not only that, but the less creditable her word against his, as we have seen here, in this forum. She was the drunk stupid one, acting all crazy, he was merely guilty of poor judgment . This huge muscular guy, was clearly a victim of a totally drunk waco. He was being battered, you see, what choice did he have really, poor Brah... /s


    I think he enjoyed the whole thing. He recorded so that he could say one thing, (why did you hit me? ect...), while doing another, (choking ect).

    IMO Tostee is a dangerous misogynistic sadist .

    Sadly, we have not seen the last of this Boorish Brah.

    http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/tostee-had-been-banned-clubs-and-described-creepy/2354079/
     
  15. CleverKnot

    CleverKnot Former Member

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    And follow that quote back, and that quote back, then read it all in its proper context.

    When you question a post that is replying to another post, then the original question of the original post, is the context in which the new answer is given.

    Post chains are like conversations. One cannot take each post as an individual statement that applies in every situation everywhere. Nor can one take a sentence that relies on the logic of the previous sentence, and then use it out of the context it was written in.

    You'll notice how I did err though, thanks for pointing it out. I actually used the "video" example in the previous post in the chain, not in that same post. That sometimes happens when one remembers the entire discussion, rather than a single post out of context.
     
  16. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    I dunno. I think, that Tostee's mental conditions should have been addressed by the prosecution. They had already been raised in his bail hearing. Because they could well have been relevant as to why he imprisoned Warriena, why he terrified her and drove her to her death (my opinion). And maybe it could have changed things. At least to have him locked away for a period of time to receive some mental health treatment. Away from the 'lifestyle' and the enabling parents (again, in my opinion).
     
  17. Bohemian

    Bohemian Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting that his behaviour was not held up to as much scrutiny as Warriena's, evidenced by the fact he exercised his right not to take the stand in his defence. That was his only available defence IMO. The Prosecutor would have exposed holes in his testimony and the recording which would have been wide enough to drive a Mack truck through had he done so.
     
  18. Bohemian

    Bohemian Well-Known Member

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  19. Bohemian

    Bohemian Well-Known Member

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    Mark my words, without intensive therapy under the guidance of a very skilled practitioner, one day Mr Tostee will be; IMO. Sadly, it may come at the expense of another person's life and the resulting devastation wrought on the lives of their loved ones.
     
  20. possumheart

    possumheart Well-Known Member

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