Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

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Serenanicole

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The Grandmother said she didn't know who was sleeping in which bed? - one has a pink blanket and the other looks blue bedding. It's weird how she explains it - 2 would have been in here - like was she even there? And she says she got up late - they had breakfast at 8.00 so is late 7.00?
Probably 7 Is late IMO. Most of my elderly patients are up with the birds 5:30am
 

Serenanicole

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well I have to say the most interesting part of the article for me was William lashing out physically at the FFC.
As I suspected...all that wasn't said ...said a lot.
Focusing on how wonderful the relationship william and MFC had.
Screams issues...big ones.

moo
Hence why she had mentioned she was ready to give up. She couldn’t stop the visits that she suspected were causing the bad behaviour that the article reported her saying went for months. Seeing the effect on the other child would have been upsetting. I wonder if there was another cause for this behaviour that she hadn’t realised or had diagnosed? He may have been autistic and therefore emotionally overwhelmed - all MOO
 

T-dawg420

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anyone on here decent at reading body language?

i find the FGM’s body language highly attention grabbing. The part when she mentions the FF leaving the house, her hands are clasped by her waste, but she’s almost white knuckling. From my understanding this can be the actions of someone who is feeling vulnerable pretending to be confident. Also, as she stumbles and says the “3 of us“ comment, her hands instantly drop below her waist and she begins to fidget with her fingers Quite badly, she can barely keep them still!

Another thing when she leads the police officer outside, she says “and this is where it all happened”. I find that strange, where what all happened? Just them playing and William disappeared?

And finally, then ending just blows my mind! “he Was so full of life, full of energy. Bouncing out of his skull with happiness, and just joy of living”.

she also clasps her hands and fidgets here as well!

the bouncing of the skull part really peaks my interest!

all of this is MOO and Of course IMO only! I am no expert but would like the know opinions others?

 

Akai

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She didn’t blame the bio parents. She was just saying that Williams behaviour wasn’t great after seeing them. IMO because these visits were not regular and not very long he was very confused by the whole thing. That is why he could be acting out.There is nothing to suggest William said he wanted to go back to his mother, same with his sister. There was nothing “foreign” about his home environment with the fosters. He was in their care longer than he was the bios
IMO she was incapable of parenting William and he was reacting to that by being aggressive to her, and instead of resolving her own inadequacies the FM decided to blame the biological parents who were an easy target. IMO.

Was she seeking psychological help to deal with these issues with William, or is the first time she has sought psychological help when it is needed to help her avoid convictions on the various charges she is facing? Did she care at all or was she simply looking for someone to blame? Is the use of the Mental Health Act in this instance about avoiding responsibility? IMO yes, it's the latter possibilities.

Further, we have a situation where FF may have deleted a series of text messages specifically from FM over a particular period. Was this concealing issues with William? Was this concealing marital issues? Is the reason they slept in the beds with the kids because they didn't want to sleep with each other?

IMO what we have learned today is a far cry from the pretty picture of the whole family that was painted otherwise and IMO every single thing about the picture they painted is justifiably called into question. This is information from the time, not from seven years down the track when circumstances may have changed, as is applicable to the charges.

Why (IMO) misrepresent things? Why paint a happy families picture to police and the public if you have nothing to hide?
 

Akai

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anyone on here decent at reading body language?

i find the FGM’s body language highly attention grabbing. The part when she mentions the FF leaving the house, her hands are clasped by her waste, but she’s almost white knuckling. From my understanding this can be the actions of someone who is feeling vulnerable pretending to be confident. Also, as she stumbles and says the “3 of us“ comment, her hands instantly drop below her waist and she begins to fidget with her fingers Quite badly, she can barely keep them still!

Another thing when she leads the police officer outside, she says “and this is where it all happened”. I find that strange, where what all happened? Just them playing and William disappeared?

And finally, then ending just blows my mind! “he Was so full of life, full of energy. Bouncing out of his skull with happiness, and just joy of living”.

she also clasps her hands and fidgets here as well!

the bouncing of the skull part really peaks my interest!

all of this is MOO and Of course IMO only! I am no expert but would like the know opinions others?

At approximately 3 minutes: "Bouncing out of his, out of his" - gestures around her head - "his skull". IMO very odd turn of phrase when the common phrase is "jumping out of his skin". Why the physical and verbal reference to his head?

ETA: Oh and look here. AMS testified at the inquest that the FM had approached her referring to the possibility that he had "hit his head". ‘Somebody has taken him’: William Tyrrell’s foster mother shares grief over loss of three-year-old

ETA2: In the 000 call she refers to a distinguishing feature of a freckle on the top of his head when you part the hair a certain way. I always thought that was a weird distinguishing feature to refer to given it would not be visible to anyone looking out for him from a distance, and it seemed an odd thing to recall at that moment. https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...p/news-story/a4d83bbff2ebf756201b8a2f955e3476
 

k-mac

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Hence why she had mentioned she was ready to give up. She couldn’t stop the visits that she suspected were causing the bad behaviour that the article reported her saying went for months. Seeing the effect on the other child would have been upsetting. I wonder if there was another cause for this behaviour that she hadn’t realised or had diagnosed? He may have been autistic and therefore emotionally overwhelmed - all MOO
This woman had an immense amount going on.
Her father had died, there was family squabbles about mother selling the property and all the siblings coming up that weekend to sort stuff out as the property had been taken under contract with a buyer.
Ongoing and escalating behavioural issues with William as she is heading into likely premenopause.
(lets not sugar coat this...it is real and quite possible)
the emotional burden she was under is understandable.
AND also a very big red flag.

We all know what its like taking toddlers on trips and out of routine.....especially so with children who have issues going on.

All this chaos affecting this woman and yet everything was just wonderful according to her.
That morning was just superduper.

All the while that quiet early morning in a semi rural community of acreages was a very bad aging man liotering in the bushes just waiting for a little boy who didnt live there to appear in his clutches and steal him away unseen by anybody. In brood daylight.
In Kendall.

moo
 

JBowie

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In the various interviews with the foster parents, IMO they go out of their way to paint a picture of family serenity, but I'm getting the impression that William was more than a handful -- maybe even hyperactive.
 

Serenanicole

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What did stand out for me is the lack of emotion in that walkthrough by the grandmother. She is a well spoken woman, and really taking charge in that walkthrough, often speaking over the officer. She was very anxious and very much directing that walkthrough.
I hope nothing happened in that house.
I really think he was taken, but at the same time that video scares me. All moo.
 

SouthAussie

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Hence why she had mentioned she was ready to give up. She couldn’t stop the visits that she suspected were causing the bad behaviour that the article reported her saying went for months. Seeing the effect on the other child would have been upsetting. I wonder if there was another cause for this behaviour that she hadn’t realised or had diagnosed? He may have been autistic and therefore emotionally overwhelmed - all MOO

Also, ADHD is not diagnosed until at least 4 years old.
I think that is also a valid consideration with these types of behaviours.
William was deemed healthy at 3 years old (apart from asthma). He was too young for an ADHD diagnosis (or non-diagnosis).


"ADHD can be diagnosed as early as four years old. To be diagnosed between the ages of four and 16, a child must show six or more symptoms for more than six months, with most signs appearing before age 12."
 
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Akai

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So from the article released today:

"But for some reason he always manages to fill them. And I said are you wet and all that sort of stuff and I said, okay well then you need to go , get up first and you need to get changed first okay and then we know and we can have a cuddle."

It seems to me to be an awfully big responsibility to leave solely to a child rather that at least accompany them and supervise them. For that matter, how did William know where to find his pull ups in a strange environment? And if FF did help him, then it is possible IMO that he dressed him in the Spiderman suit then.
 

nightrider17

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If its true the MFC wasn't there for breakfast at 8.00 - he had already left.

Where did the MFC go? if he was only seen on CCTV at 8.49

Do you think the Foster Grandmother had breakfast with the two children - 3 of us.

And the parents where out near the car arguing.

Incident happened?? MOO
 

Akai

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Also, ADHD is not diagnosed until at least 4 years old.
I think that is also a valid consideration with these types of behaviours.
William was deemed healthy at 3 years old (apart from asthma). He was too young for an ADHD diagnosis (or non-diagnosis).


ADHD can be diagnosed in children younger than 4, although there are no specific guildeines for it. Parents can also look for signs that their toddler has ADHD and seek support even without a formal diagnosis. Given the extremities of William's behaviour that we are learning about today, did FM/FF investigate this?

 

SouthAussie

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ADHD can be diagnosed in children younger than 4, although there are no specific guildeines for it. Parents can also look for signs that their toddler has ADHD and seek support even without a formal diagnosis. Given the extremities of William's behaviour that we are learning about today, did FM/FF investigate this?


I think it was being looked at. imo
BM had 3 supervisors there at her last visit with William. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them was a behavioural specialist and was observing.
 

nightrider17

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I often found exciting trips out of the ordinary would always exacerbate children who have self regulation difficulties. They seem to almost peak to new highs in different settings - when they are out of their routine. The excitement builds and reveals itself in overactivity and overstimulation almost. It can be difficult to centre that child and refocus. It can be very draining. IMO
 

Akai

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I think it was being looked at. imo
BM had 3 supervisors there at her last visit with William. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them was a behavioural specialist and was observing.
But why, if they were looking for ADHD would they have been observing him with the BM rather than observing him with the FM who was experiencing/reporting all the issues? If it's ADHD then it's an issue in everyday life, not solely at the particular point that he sees his BM. The three supervisors always sounded to me more as though they were trying to ascertain whether access visits should be more limited, not looking for general behavioural issues.
 

SouthAussie

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But why, if they were looking for ADHD would they have been observing him with the BM rather than observing him with the FM who was experiencing/reporting all the issues? If it's ADHD then it's an issue in everyday life, not solely at the particular point that he sees his BM. The three supervisors always sounded to me more as though they were trying to ascertain whether access visits should be more limited, not looking for general behavioural issues.

We don't know that they were not observing at home also. Watching the whole situation. We only know about the 3 supervisors at the last access visit because BM said they followed them around the place.

FACS had been alerted by FM about William's behaviour. There were issues. We have known that for a long time.
I posted a link before where the FACS social workers were putting it down to "a certain amount of dysfunction in foster children" at the time.

Some of us have also wondered if his behaviour (if it was associated with an undiagnosed condition) did lead him to wander off and get irretrievably lost.
 
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