Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[Sillybilly]

Thread is open again.

A reminder to be respectful at all times toward other members. There is never a reason to be rude or personalize toward your fellow Websleuthers.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't doubt his motives, nor his dedication, however there is a point where cooler heads are needed. Police all over the world solve tough cases, but they don't all blow themselves up in the process.

Being in a senior position in any organization requires the ability to get the best out of team members without turning them against you by your behavior towards them. There's politics in every important job. Successful people learn how to deal effectively with that, too.

IMO GJ is the sort of personality that needs a strong and wise mentor at call (and of course to follow their advice).

All that said, I believe that he should have been rotated off the Strike Force by police management earlier to get fresh eyes onto the case. I believe that would have been better for him and for the case.

Unfortunately, his boss Scott Cook chose to manage the squad in the way that he did.

Jubes said in one of his articles that the buck stopped with him (Jubes). But it didn't really. The buck stopped with his boss, who wanted to stop supplying the extra needed resources (which could have helped ease the workload) because 'the case was never going to be solved'.

Maybe Scott Cook was right, maybe it will never be solved. But the positivity has to filter from the top.

imo

 

[katydid23]

No. A bad outcome doesn't prove neglect. A duty of care is a duty to behave in a certain way, not to guarantee a certain result.

So true. How many of us have allowed our children to run and play in their grandmother's yard? Mine certainly did. We would be watching from the front porch but they did run around the side yard and into the back and then come around, without our eyes being glued upon them at all times.

I don't believe the sibling should be taken away because a child went missing, when there was no clear negligence. It was a small, quiet culdesac in as very small town. Who would expect a child to vanish so quickly?

 

[KateM]

So true. How many of us have allowed our children to run and play in their grandmother's yard? Mine certainly did. We would be watching from the front porch but they did run around the side yard and into the back and then come around, without our eyes being glued upon them at all times.

I don't believe the sibling should be taken away because a child went missing, when there was no clear negligence. It was a small, quiet culdesac in as very small town. Who would expect a child to vanish so quickly?

It was a large unfenced property with a sloping block down to the road. The FFC claims that she saw 3 strange cars in the street that morning. <modsnip: Stating opinion as fact>

 

[KateM]

No. A bad outcome doesn't prove neglect. A duty of care is a duty to behave in a certain way, not to guarantee a certain result.

No it doesn't, but both the FFC and the FGM took their eyes off William for longer than 5 minutes IMO.

 

[KateM]

So true. How many of us have allowed our children to run and play in their grandmother's yard? Mine certainly did. We would be watching from the front porch but they did run around the side yard and into the back and then come around, without our eyes being glued upon them at all times.

I don't believe the sibling should be taken away because a child went missing, when there was no clear negligence. It was a small, quiet culdesac in as very small town. Who would expect a child to vanish so quickly?

Do you think a sibling should be taken away if they have alleged physical abuse from their foster parents? That's what happened...

 

[LolaAngelina]

Do you think a sibling should be taken away if they have alleged physical abuse from their foster parents? That's what happened...

There was no alleged abuse until recently and Williams sister was removed.

 

[KateM]

There was no alleged abuse until recently and Williams sister was removed.

I'm well aware of that, but that's the reported alleged abuse. We don't know for a fact that there wasn't historical alleged abuse.

 

[Wexford]

So, a premature witch hunt, essentially. If that's what has happened with the Crime Commission.

If others have read Bowraville, and/or followed the Matthew Leveson case, and/or read Jubes book, they will know that Jubes forms an empathetic relationship with the victims families. He learns a lot about the victims in doing that, and I don't think that means he is blind to any possible culpability of a family member.

Could Jubes have involved the FP in a police strategy of some kind? Perhaps. imo
Remember when we wondered if those two cars were actually there, or if it was a fabricated idea used as police strategy?
.

I have always questioned the cars and the timing the info was released. Possibly the FFM mis-remembered, possibly it took a year because it was overlooked information (doubtful) but it is also possible that it was a strategy to flush someone out because it was a year after the disappearance this information was released. Similar to the placing of the spiderman suit on the walking track. I don't doubt there are all sorts of tactics used that are not common knowledge. Does the means justify the end? Probably it does to family members like the Levesons who at least finally got their son's remains and some sort of closure. What lengths would you go to (or find acceptable), to find your own missing child (or at least what happened to them)? Let's hope none of us ever have to find that out.

 

[KateM]

I have always questioned the cars and the timing the info was released. Possibly the FFM mis-remembered, possibly it took a year because it was overlooked information (doubtful) but it is also possible that it was a strategy to flush someone out because it was a year after the disappearance this information was released. Similar to the placing of the spiderman suit on the walking track. I don't doubt there are all sorts of tactics used that are not common knowledge. Does the means justify the end? Probably it does to family members like the Levesons who at least finally got their son's remains and some sort of closure. What lengths would you go to (or find acceptable), to find your own missing child (or at least what happened to them)? Let's hope none of us ever have to find that out.

It's possible that the FP's already know what happened and if that was the case and the sighting of the cars was in fact a police strategy, then they were hardly going to protest, were they?

 

[katydid23]

It was a large unfenced property with a sloping block down to the road. The FFC claims that she saw 3 strange cars in the street that morning. <modsnip: Stating opinion as fact>

It was a large unfenced property in a small town, with a low crime rate. Who would be concerned with cars parked on the street? I'd assume the neighbours all had cars.

What are the odds that your 3 yr old is going to run across Grandma's front lawn and then suddenly vanish, with no trace? No one expects that to happen on a visit to Grandma's house.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have always questioned the cars and the timing the info was released. Possibly the FFM mis-remembered, possibly it took a year because it was overlooked information (doubtful) but it is also possible that it was a strategy to flush someone out because it was a year after the disappearance this information was released. Similar to the placing of the spiderman suit on the walking track. I don't doubt there are all sorts of tactics used that are not common knowledge. Does the means justify the end? Probably it does to family members like the Levesons who at least finally got their son's remains and some sort of closure. What lengths would you go to (or find acceptable), to find your own missing child (or at least what happened to them)? Let's hope none of us ever have to find that out.

I recall that we wondered, years ago, if they needed something more to get a warrant to search TJ's car (and maybe PB's car or his son's car - which I think we found out was similar to the grey car but it had been crushed at a wreckers yard).

It might not have been enough - for a search warrant - that TJ and PB were convicted pedos who lived in the area.

It is possible, if it was police strategy, that it was discussed in closed inquest court.

imo

 

[Mauig’ma]

it seems very unfair to the child who was allegedly assaulted if ffc gets her section 14 mental health exclusion granted, its obviously a strategy advised by her expensive lawyers, where shes basically admitting the assault, even mfc had considered applying but decided not to, if she was so deranged at the time why didnt mfc step in and protect the child instead of joining in?

And why now? If ffc was dealing with mental health issues why bring it to everyone’s attention now? It seems awful convenient all of a sudden. Imo.

 

[SouthAussie]

How do we know there wasn’t prior abuse? It might be that LT is older now and is finally using her voice to address issues that may or may not have been happening all these years. Moo

On the balance of probabilities, it seems unlikely there was prior (historical) alleged abuse.

The minor child has been going to school, riding horses, playing sports (I think), has been old enough to express herself for years - so there would have been lots of opportunities for mandatory reporting, if anyone suspected or heard about prior alleged abuse. Considering all the mandatory reporting adults who have been involved in the minor child's life.

imo

 

[Mauig’ma]

On the balance of probabilities, it seems unlikely there was prior (historical) alleged abuse.

The minor child has been going to school, riding horses, playing sports (I think), has been old enough to express herself for years - so there would have been lots of opportunities for mandatory reporting, if anyone suspected or heard about prior alleged abuse. Considering all the mandatory reporting adults who have been involved in the minor child's life.

imo

abuse comes in various ways. Mental and physical are both types of abuse. Just because a person in the outside world physically can’t see an marks or bruises on a person doesn’t mean abuse Didn’t occur. Moo

 

[bearbear]

some/ a lot of children hide abuse for years,often waiting until adulthood, sometimes never telling anyone

 

[katydid23]

And sometimes adolescents go through a phase where they are very angry and sometimes they have anger towards their parents, especially foster or adopted children. Very often, a year or more later, they get more clarity on their family situation and they realise their anger was misplaced.

adolescents often get mad at parents for strict rules or having to do chores or having curfew, or not being able to play certain video games---and they may act out angrily in response.

I worked in a middle school for many years---you'd be amazed at some of the allegations students would make about their parents---how mean and unfair and abusive they were. The principal would follow up on many of these claims and often it was just parents trying to set limits and hold kids accountable.

Sometimes there was actual abuse. But just because a claim is made it does not mean it is 100% accurate. It needs to be investigated.

I really want to know what the foster parents have done.

 

[bearbear]

because police have a lot of surveillance material, its pointless for ffc to plead not guilty, the section 14 is her only way out to avoid charges
i wonder where the surveillance was? and witnesses?

William Tyrrell's foster parents will proceed to trial on charges of assaulting and stalking a child after it was revealed that police have a 'large amount of surveillance device material' and up to ten prosecution witnesses.

Sydney's Hornsby Local Court heard on Friday that the little boy lost's foster mother will apply to have her charges heard under the Mental Health Act, while the foster father will not.

William Tyrrell foster parents in court on child stalk assault charges

William Tyrrell's foster parents have faced court for the first time on charges of stalking the same child who police allege they assaulted last year.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[KateM]

It was a large unfenced property in a small town, with a low crime rate. Who would be concerned with cars parked on the street? I'd assume the neighbours all had cars.

What are the odds that your 3 yr old is going to run across Grandma's front lawn and then suddenly vanish, with no trace? No one expects that to happen on a visit to Grandma's house.

You don't know what a 3 y.o. is capable of. To leave your eyes off a child for 5 minutes or longer, is enough time for an accident etc. to happen to a young child in a strange environment. It was an unfenced property, opposite a forest.

 

[KateM]

On the balance of probabilities, it seems unlikely there was prior (historical) alleged abuse.

The minor child has been going to school, riding horses, playing sports (I think), has been old enough to express herself for years - so there would have been lots of opportunities for mandatory reporting, if anyone suspected or heard about prior alleged abuse. Considering all the mandatory reporting adults who have been involved in the minor child's life.

imo

There may or may not have been any prior physical abuse, but what about emotional abuse? The FFC apparently has a mental health condition...