Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[SouthAussie]

Good questions. I am guessing the DM made a specific media application to the Coroner's Court and were grated the material. I can't imagine their getting it direct from police.

If the Coroner had granted permission to the DM, we can be sure that the Coroner would have granted permission to all of the media publications (like she did with the 48 page document release, when the photos were released).

There would be no DM 'exclusive'.

I don't think the source is the police, either.

imo

 

[JBowie]

If the Coroner had granted permission to the DM, we can be sure that the Coroner would have granted permission to all of the media publications (like she did with the 48 page document release, when the photos were released).

There would be no DM 'exclusive'.

I don't think the source is the police, either.

imo

This bit from the DoJ website seems to suggest to me that the applications and grants thereof process is done on an individual basis. No mention of one in, all in, so to speak. If so, then I guess journos can gain 'exclusives' if they request specific items. Hard to say.

How can the media obtain exhibits or inspect a court file?

Applications to inspect exhibits or obtain copies of exhibits must be made to the Department of Justice media unit. The application form is available on the Coroner’s Court website. The Department of Justice media unit will advise if your application to inspect a court file has been approved.

Where can the media inspect court files and exhibits once an application has been approved?

For matters in the Coroners Court on that day, media should access the exhibit or court file through the court officer or counsel assisting in the courtroom.

If this is not able to be accommodated, media should attend the court registry on level one to enquire about access.

In these instances, access is usually given in the courtroom and can only be accommodated during court breaks at morning tea, lunch or at the end of the day.

For access to finalised matters, media can attend the court registry on level one once approval has been given. The date and time to attend should be pre-approved with the
court’s registrar.

https://www.coroners.nsw.gov.au/content/dam/dcj/ctsd/coronerscourt/documents/guides/FMCCC%20media%20briefing%20document.pdf

 

[SouthAussie]

This bit from the DoJ website seems to suggest to me that the applications and grants thereof process is done on an individual basis. No mention of one in, all in, so to speak. If so, then I guess journos can gain 'exclusives' if they request specific items. Hard to say.

How can the media obtain exhibits or inspect a court file?

Applications to inspect exhibits or obtain copies of exhibits must be made to the Department of Justice media unit. The application form is available on the Coroner’s Court website. The Department of Justice media unit will advise if your application to inspect a court file has been approved.

Where can the media inspect court files and exhibits once an application has been approved?

For matters in the Coroners Court on that day, media should access the exhibit or court file through the court officer or counsel assisting in the courtroom.

If this is not able to be accommodated, media should attend the court registry on level one to enquire about access.

In these instances, access is usually given in the courtroom and can only be accommodated during court breaks at morning tea, lunch or at the end of the day.

For access to finalised matters, media can attend the court registry on level one once approval has been given. The date and time to attend should be pre-approved with the
court’s registrar.

https://www.coroners.nsw.gov.au/content/dam/dcj/ctsd/coronerscourt/documents/guides/FMCCC%20media%20briefing%20document.pdf

Yes, I am aware. Not that I think it is probable that only the DM would have applied for, and been granted, exclusive access.

The other media publications are still interested. They are reporting on all updates (though interestingly the DM didn't report on the latest court update).

'Interested parties' also are given a copy of the police brief.

 

[FromGermany1]

How do you know that they didn't visit the FGM in hospital?? They said they had not been back to KENDALL

Also, we don't know that the FGM went to her own home after she was released from hospital, she may have stayed with her our family ( which would not be unusual ) & the FF could have visited her there.

They also came to Kendall this visit to see the headstone that was now on the FFC 's dad grave.

All IMO

Of course I don't know, but I assume, because we didn't hear the opposite, not even by DM. In every conversation/statement FFC/MFC could have included the fact, that they visited or met their mother somewhere else between February and September. Afaik, they didn't include it, although it would have sounded good and like loving care.

 

[Mauig’ma]

That might be the feeling of some, but Hans Rupp has quite clearly stated that the parents (all of them) were the first people to be investigated.

I personally think that the police who were working the case would know better than any of us as to how that investigation was conducted, and how the families were ruled out. These were not unseasoned police officers. And Hans Rupp made the decision that none of them were involved.

For example, I came across an article yesterday (that I had forgotten about) where BGM's friend was investigated because she had applied for a 3-bedroom govt house and the police wanted to ensure that the extra bedroom was not intended for William. She also has/had loose association with TJ and BS.

This is one example of the level of detail the police have gone to, when looking at the immediate families and their associates.

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Yes I too am glad le checked into everyone. But the focus imo wasn’t on the foster parents long enough or thoroughly enough at the beginning. Moo. Now all these years later they’re going back to square one. And the poi is the ffc when I feel they could and should have been thoroughly checked meticulously from the very beginning. Now they’re finally doing that. And look where we are now. Seems redundant to some. At least there’s movement in the case like we haven’t seen in years. I just hope there’s the evidence they need to convict. I have faith there is. Time will tell shortly. Moo imo

 

[JLZ]

I'm not suggesting any complicity, but really what are the odds that this Kim would be associated with Jones and his ex wife and also be sharing a house with William's bio grandmother? How on earth did they get together? Scratching my head here.

It was only said that they'd applied for a house in which to live together. I infer they didn't get the house because it wasn't said that they did or had lived together and also because the article does say that Kim's flatmate is the brother-in-law of TJ. As far as I remember we never did discover whether they met before or after William disappeared. Since Kim has connections to TJ who was "questioned extensively about William's disappearance" through the brother-in-law and TJ's former wife Debbie, it's possible the case itself became the meeting-point between BGM and Kim.

 

[SouthAussie]

Seems redundant to some. At least there’s movement in the case like we haven’t seen in years. I just hope there’s the evidence they need to convict. I have faith there is. Time will tell shortly. Moo imo

No, it doesn't seem redundant. If the Coroner wanted the search done, then it needed to be done.

It is important that she rules in or out the likelihood of different scenarios, to her satisfaction.

We all want the Coroner's outcome to be as accurate as possible.


"We are operating under a Coronial order that set some tasks and set search areas."
Search for William Tyrrell to stretch beyond three weeks

 

[Mauig’ma]

No, it doesn't seem redundant. If the Coroner wanted the search done, then it needed to be done.

It is important that she rules in or out the likelihood of different scenarios, to her satisfaction.

We all want the Coroner's outcome to be as accurate as possible.


"We are operating under a Coronial order that set some tasks and set search areas."
Search for William Tyrrell to stretch beyond three weeks

I should have made myself more clear. I’m not talking about the search Per se. I meant questioning the foster carers in depth more like they should have in the beginning. Imo moo I agree with what you said about the coroner wanting to rule in or out all kinds of different scenarios. She’s a very smart coroner and very thorough imo

 

[nightrider17]

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his FINAL hours and bedroom he slept in before vanishing

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his FINAL hours and bedroom he slept in before vanishing

www.nytimespost.com

Detective Partridge asks the grandmother what happened next and is told that ‘between four and five minutes’ later her daughter disappeared after William.

Leading the detective around the side of the house she said, ‘I walked all the way down here wondering what’s going on’ and agreed she still couldn’t see her daughter and so ‘I went all the way down to the road.

‘When I got down to the road I could see Anne Maree (Sharpley) who lives there.

‘It was absolutely deathly quiet. Still. Nothing. I was down on the road talking with Anne Maree and then (the foster mother) came up very distraught and said “I’ve got to call the police”.


So with this walk through with the Foster GM - there doesn't quite explain - how the car trip would fit in??? or was it when :-


After remaining seated ‘for some time, then I didn’t hear from her, I got up and followed them down.’ MOO


Even if dismiss some of what Foster GM said - the missing time of when her daughter went in the car?? doesn't really get accounted for.

The foster grandmother said after breakfast, her daughter then ‘went off with the children… and I think that’s when she went down there playing monsters.

Could this have been when the FFC went in the car for a drive and it was put in the storyline as happening after breakfast but before they went on the patio to colour in and do the dice?

I think only AS can answer to when she saw the Foster Grandmother. I am thinking it must have been 10.30 if the MFC turned up at 10.35.

How he (the foster father) knew at that stage, I’m not … she would have told him, she would have phoned him, he was just distraught.’

How he knew at that stage I’m not too sure, he’d tell you, I’m not too sure, then he started running around. Everybody was running around.’

The foster father’s mother-in-law described to police how he had returned ‘distraught’ and that her daughter ‘would have phoned him’ before he pulled into the driveway at the house.

Maybe she is filling in the blanks herself to things she's not understanding and coming up with a theory and saying it as if it was what actually occurred but its more her inference. e.g he's distraught(MFC)he must already know she phoned him(FFC). Maybe foster Grandmother filled all that storyline in herself but its maybe not what actually happened.

Sooo confusing. I keep swaying as to why they are showing that video now and does it have any relevance. Hey I would have wrongly predicted the bed with the pink blanket was where the girl slept with the FFC. wrong. MOO

 

[deugirtni]

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his FINAL hours and bedroom he slept in before vanishing

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his FINAL hours and bedroom he slept in before vanishing

www.nytimespost.com

Detective Partridge asks the grandmother what happened next and is told that ‘between four and five minutes’ later her daughter disappeared after William.
....
The foster grandmother said after breakfast, her daughter then ‘went off with the children… and I think that’s when she went down there playing monsters.
....

I wonder how FGM even knew about FM going off with the kids and was playing 'monsters'? I get the impression she wasn't there with them physically. If so, it must've been reported to FGM that this occurred. I wonder what other parts of her statements were reported as fact to LE, if they were merely regurgitation of what she'd been told? jmo.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

I wonder how FGM even knew about FM going off with the kids and was playing 'monsters'? I get the impression she wasn't there with them physically. If so, it must've been reported to FGM that this occurred. I wonder what other parts of her statements were reported as fact to LE, if they were merely regurgitation of what she'd been told? jmo.

That's a good point, and could explain why the FGM has been absent from the inquest etc. I would love to know how similar statements given on day one compare to the walk throughs days later

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder how FGM even knew about FM going off with the kids and was playing 'monsters'? I get the impression she wasn't there with them physically. If so, it must've been reported to FGM that this occurred. I wonder what other parts of her statements were reported as fact to LE, if they were merely regurgitation of what she'd been told? jmo.

If FGM was regurgitating facts she had been told, why did she give an erroneous time for FD's departure?

How does anyone decide which parts of her statements to rely on, and which parts not to rely on?

 

[deugirtni]

If FGM was regurgitating facts she had been told, why did she give an erroneous time for FD's departure?

How does anyone decide which parts of her statements to rely on, and which parts not to rely on?

I think by her own admission. Hadn't she said she'd stayed in the house to wash dishes or something? It's never been said by anyone that I'm aware of, that FGM was also out there playing 'monsters'. She was however, depending on which statement, said to have been present when FD left the home. Didn't we hear something about him showing her the new vehicle? And/or showing her the new bikes, etc?

 

[Awakening]

I have absolutely no evidence of this, it's purely my own gut feeling that neighbour AMS will prove to be an excellent witness.

 

[Couldbe]

I should have made myself more clear. I’m not talking about the search Per se. I meant questioning the foster carers in depth more like they should have in the beginning. Imo moo I agree with what you said about the coroner wanting to rule in or out all kinds of different scenarios. She’s a very smart coroner and very thorough imo

William Tyrrell investigation: mother's triple 0 call that sparked a year-long search

They are the frantic first moments when William Tyrrell's mother realised her young son had vanished while playing innocently in the backyard of his grandmother's home.

www.smh.com.au

Edited to include link to triple zero call.
JMO – In focussing on that triple zero call by FFC, the information that she provides of her own volition and what answers she gives to questions by the Operator, it might reveal that FFC is feeling guilt in some way. In relation to the amount of time William had been missing (when he was last seen by her) she answered the Operator’s question by saying how long she / they had been searching. With her not saying when she had last seen him, this could relate to the fact that she didn’t want to reveal that William had been unsupervised for quite some time (much longer than just 5 mins) for fear of attracting blame in some way.

 

[Mauig’ma]

William Tyrrell investigation: mother's triple 0 call that sparked a year-long search

They are the frantic first moments when William Tyrrell's mother realised her young son had vanished while playing innocently in the backyard of his grandmother's home.

www.smh.com.au

Edited to include link to triple zero call.
JMO – In focussing on that triple zero call by FFC, the information that she provides of her own volition and what answers she gives to questions by the Operator, it might reveal that FFC is feeling guilt in some way. In relation to the amount of time William had been missing (when he was last seen by her) she answered the Operator’s question by saying how long she / they had been searching. With her not saying when she had last seen him, this could relate to the fact that she didn’t want to reveal that William had been unsupervised for quite some time (much longer than just 5 mins) for fear of attracting blame in some way.

Very true. Thank you for pointing that out

 

[JBowie]

Regarding the FGM's version of events (or as much as we are allowed to know about her version) it strikes me that diligent police would have closely considered any discrepancies between her version and that of the FM and FF and then proceeded to interrogate her to shake out any possible fabrications.

Given that the FGM wasn't called as a witness at the inquest, I guess police either accepted her statements(s) as given, or maybe those in charge of the inquest thought that she was not in condition by that time (i.e. almost 5 years later) to be put on the stand.

 

[SouthAussie]

Sorry to interrupt the flow for a second, but I just wanted to put this here, because it relates to a question someone had before .... as in "why would BS have been going to the house that day".

Her message said “please call back and let me know if the washing machine part has arrived” the court heard.

The court was told Spedding called back and left a message for her mother later that day, hours after William went missing, saying he had the part and could attend later that day.

Thread 39, post 1,367


Now I will be able to find that more easily next time the subject arises.

That part of thread 39 is actually mostly about inquest testimony from AMS and LH, which is what I was looking at when I stumbled on the quote about the washing machine.

 

[Couldbe]

William Tyrrell investigation: mother's triple 0 call that sparked a year-long search

They are the frantic first moments when William Tyrrell's mother realised her young son had vanished while playing innocently in the backyard of his grandmother's home.

www.smh.com.au

Edited to include link to triple zero call.
JMO – In focussing on that triple zero call by FFC, the information that she provides of her own volition and what answers she gives to questions by the Operator, it might reveal that FFC is feeling guilt in some way. In relation to the amount of time William had been missing (when he was last seen by her) she answered the Operator’s question by saying how long she / they had been searching. With her not saying when she had last seen him, this could relate to the fact that she didn’t want to reveal that William had been unsupervised for quite some time (much longer than just 5 mins) for fear of attracting blame in some way.

Very true. Thank you for pointing that outm

MOO, but that triple zero call seems like it was just a polite formality ..... something (a call) that needed to be done. FFC wasn't actually asking for help to find William.

 

[Mauig’ma]

Sorry to interrupt the flow for a second, but I just wanted to put this here, because it relates to a question someone had before .... as in "why would BS have been going to the house that day".

Her message said “please call back and let me know if the washing machine part has arrived” the court heard.

The court was told Spedding called back and left a message for her mother later that day, hours after William went missing, saying he had the part and could attend later that day.

Thread 39, post 1,367


Now I will be able to find that more easily next time the subject arises.

That part of thread 39 is actually mostly about inquest testimony from AMS and LH, which is what I was looking at when I stumbled on the quote about the washing machine.

What ever happened? Did BS come back at all to fix the wash machine? Another question I have. Did le search the house for anything besides William that day or days after? The wash machine seems important in my opinion. There were clothes hanging on the clothes line. Was it checked to see what was hanging/drying? Were William’s clothes (Spider-Man outfit) searched for inside the house or any of his clothes? Tyia imo moo. Edit for spelling