Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

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katydid23

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I’d missed this report. Haven’t heard anymore about this potential witness.


At the same time officers were handling the piece of fabric, a Kendall local stopped by the search scene to deliver his own theory to police.

The elderly man, who did not provide his name but offered his details to police, stopped his vehicle alongside the dig and got out to speak to a detective.

He told investigators he saw something dumped from a vehicle on the morning the then-three-year-old disappeared.

Shown a picture of a vehicle of interest the man said: “I’m pretty sure that’s the car I saw.”
He waited 8 years to tell police about this?

It wasn't until he saw them digging around 8 years later that he told them this vital info? Why didn't he call them years ago? They searched this same area quite a few times over the years.

It also seems odd that they showed him the vehicle of interest. Shouldn't they have given him a few pictures of cars and let him pick out the one it looks like?

Showing a picture and saying 'did it look like this car?' ----Isn't that highly unusual if one is trying to get accurate information?
 

SLouTh

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He waited 8 years to tell police about this?

It wasn't until he saw them digging around 8 years later that he told them this vital info? Why didn't he call them years ago? They searched this same area quite a few times over the years.

It also seems odd that they showed him the vehicle of interest. Shouldn't they have given him a few pictures of cars and let him pick out the one it looks like?

Showing a picture and saying 'did it look like this car?' ----Isn't that highly unusual if one is trying to get accurate information?
It is hard to understand …..

People don’t come forward for a variety reasons …. In the Amber Haigh Case it has taken 20 years for someone to come forward …

Possibly, until last November, no one knew anything in that particular area would have been relevant to the investigation?

Police were still calling for people to come forward when they announced the dig ….

"I would also like to remind everyone from the public there is still a $1 million reward for information leading to the conviction of a person with regard to this," Detective Chief Superintendent Bennett said.



 

LIBPOP

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It is hard to understand …..

People don’t come forward for a variety reasons …. In the Amber Haigh Case it has taken 20 years for someone to come forward …

Possibly, until last November, no one knew anything in that particular area would have been relevant to the investigation?

Police were still calling for people to come forward when they announced the dig ….

"I would also like to remind everyone from the public there is still a $1 million reward for information leading to the conviction of a person with regard to this," Detective Chief Superintendent Bennett said.


The first time we new about the FGM’s car was when it was taken for forensic testing. That may have triggered this Kendall resident’s memory of what he saw that morning. JMO.
 

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SLouTh

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Interesting timing there:

"a new witness came forward via Crime Stoppers, just a week after a $1 million reward for information on the [Amber Haigh] case was announced."

Yes agree … but the reward was at $250k before that …. And it was the missing piece of information the Police required ..

This case may be similar, in that Police just need one missing piece of information to solve William’s disappearance??

I also noticed the caveat on William’s Reward has changed….. it is now to assist in a conviction, where as it was to bring William home initially …
 

Couldbe

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Yes agree, especially for adults and division of assets etc …all of the legal requirements are covered by this …

However, we are mid inquest…. And normally a Coroner would rule on if a child is likely deceased or not, and as yet, that has not occurred …

That is why I was surprised with wording used by Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett when he said officers would be "looking for the remains of William Tyrrell".

It's highly likely that if we found something it would be a body. We are looking for the remains of William Tyrrell, no doubt about that," he said.


"Key points
  • If a person has been missing for several years and it is not known whether they are alive, the Court may presume them to be dead in some circumstances.
  • If the Court finds that someone is presumed dead, their assets may then be dealt with by their next of kin as though they are dead by Court order.
  • Where someone has not be en seen or heard from for 7 years, the law will presume that they have died."
JMO - Agree SlouTh, the Coroner (who would be considered 'the law') has not yet released her findings from the Inquiry ... so no presumption yet.
As you say, with Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett telling us that they would be "looking for the remains of William Tyrrell", and recently we read (William Tyrrell's dad accepts his boy is gone..now time to move on) that William's bio Father has said: "But now, after acknowledging the boy is most-likely dead, he believes it's time to put the nightmare behind him and get on with his life."

MOO ....... maybe LE have 'all but told him' that they have some evidence which could lead to the circumstances of William's disappearance!
 

Awakening

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"Key points
  • If a person has been missing for several years and it is not known whether they are alive, the Court may presume them to be dead in some circumstances.
  • If the Court finds that someone is presumed dead, their assets may then be dealt with by their next of kin as though they are dead by Court order.
  • Where someone has not be en seen or heard from for 7 years, the law will presume that they have died."
JMO - Agree SlouTh, the Coroner (who would be considered 'the law') has not yet released her findings from the Inquiry ... so no presumption yet.
As you say, with Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett telling us that they would be "looking for the remains of William Tyrrell", and recently we read (William Tyrrell's dad accepts his boy is gone..now time to move on) that William's bio Father has said: "But now, after acknowledging the boy is most-likely dead, he believes it's time to put the nightmare behind him and get on with his life."

MOO ....... maybe LE have 'all but told him' that they have some evidence which could lead to the circumstances of William's disappearance!

I agree. IMO I don't think they'd presume a missing child was deceased, with the certainty they seem to have, based on the passing of time alone.
 

SLouTh

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Coroner has suspicions based on her inquest findings so has instructed police to do so
Just going back to your pondering, I think this statement is also relevant …..


police launched a surprise 'high intensity' search of bushland around 800m from” FGM’s Benaroon Drive home. William Tyrrell's foster mother pleads not guilty to lying and “Today police officers were seen returning to the house he vanished from. … Police dogs were also used to comb the area today… during today's media briefing Chief Superintendent Bennett made clear police were chasing a fresh lead, and that they were dealing with specifics. "
This is in response to evidence we've obtained in the course of the investigation," he said… The 18-month coronial inquest into William's disappearance in the NSW Coroners Court is yet to deliver its findings but, according to Chief Superintendent Bennett, it has proven pivotal in driving today's sudden development.”


Police 'looking for remains' as new William Tyrrell searches launched


This suggests to me that information gained from the Inquest has indeed been instrumental in the new direction that Police are taking …..

I also wonder if the Special Hotline set up by the Coroner resulted in any of this new evidence????

imo
 

SouthAussie

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(snipped for focus) JMO - Agree SlouTh, the Coroner (who would be considered 'the law') has not yet released her findings from the Inquiry ... so no presumption yet.

" Under the Coroners Act 2009, an 'inquest' is an inquest into the death or suspected death of a person "



I think there is already a presumption of death or suspected death. The fact finding mission of the inquest is to find out how and why.

imo

Jubes tended to say "until there is evidence to show otherwise we will investigate as if William is alive" or words to that effect. But of course everyone had to investigate as if he is deceased. Hence all the searches.
 

Couldbe

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Yes agree … but the reward was at $250k before that …. And it was the missing piece of information the Police required ..

This case may be similar, in that Police just need one missing piece of information to solve William’s disappearance??

I also noticed the caveat on William’s Reward has changed….. it is now to assist in a conviction, where as it was to bring William home initially …
Extracted from your post SlouTh BBM: "noticed the caveat on William’s Reward has changed….. it is now to assist in a conviction, where as it was to bring William home initially …".

Similar wording:
William Tyrrell’s family devastated by new claims
“As the seventh anniversary of William’s disappearance approaches on Sunday, NSW Police stressed a $1m reward remained in place for an information that could solve the mystery of his fate.”
 

they'll get you

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Hi SLouTh.

Maybe I dreamt it, i don’t know - but I have this feeling that at one stage early on it was said that FFFC was inside playing dice with L & then William came in & he wanted to try too.

do you have any recollection of that?

( please everyone, unless we can substantiate, don’t put any value in this, as I may be way off)

all just my thoughts ..

His foster mother told the 2019 inquest into his disappearance that the child had been playing with dice and pencils but changed to play a game called 'Daddy Tiger'.

 

Megnut

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His foster mother told the 2019 inquest into his disappearance that the child had been playing with dice and pencils but changed to play a game called 'Daddy Tiger'.

So he suddenly began to play Daddy Tiger? By himself? "Daddy" had already left....

Photo seems to support an end to crayons and a start to roaring...

But things IMO are not always as they seem.

Capture the photo. Then caption the photo.

I'm not convinced it's a roar. Looks as much like 'show me what's in your mouth".

I think it's at least possible that whatever sound Wm did make was rewritten for the benefit of the very young and very old that day.

Even her odd tale of the tree climbing seems put of place. Making Wm do something he wasn't comfortable doing. Maybe that's not why she shared it. Maybe it was an oversplain, to divorce Wm and high places because Wm's next to last place was at height. Namely the high verandah. As in, Wm couldn't have fallen because Wm doesn't do heights so trust me, nothing high happened.

Because something high did happen IMO and the precursor wasn't playful roaring or any kind of playing at all. But a child trying to escape a scolding.

Those photos, in close siccession, scrapbook fodder? Or...was the female caregiver attempting to record Wm's incorrect dice-rolling behavior? Did Wm behave one way when the male caregiver was home and in another when he was not? (At least as may have been perceived by the female caregiver)

I think the photo, the timeline, the explanations are all off -- and only one person was in control of all of it that morning.

The one who was almost successful in erasing about 30 minutes from the morning.

JMO
 

Mauig’ma

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Did someone actually see something that day??? Have they come forward???
It is very odd that not a living soul saw anything whatsoever that day .. imo

Perhaps they did not want to come forward while FGM was still alive? For whatever reason??

Rather than focusing on the after 10:00am timeframe, did Police look at what may have happened at an earlier time that morning?

All hypothetical about possible new evidence… imo
Is it possible fgm on her death bed told someone close to her of her suspicions of what really happened that day? Probably not what happened but I’m just throwing scenarios out there. Moo
 

Couldbe

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What a turnaround since October 2020!

"It was a poignant gift that triggered an eerie silence throughout the courtroom and tears from police, a former homicide detective, lawyers, reporters and those who loved William Tyrrell.

A black book of never-before-seen photographs of the three-year-old boy was handed to Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame at the conclusion of an inquest into his disappearance.

His slightly older sister was the last person to see the boy in the Spider-Man suit — one minute they were playing "tigers" on the lawn of their foster grandmother's home in Kendall on the NSW Mid-North Coast, the next he was gone.

She cannot remember what happened and now, aged 10, she no longer remembers him at all.

"The photobooks are his memories — they show you the innocence and love his sister and him have for each other," their foster mother told the NSW Coroner's Court."
 

seekingjustice**

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So he suddenly began to play Daddy Tiger? By himself? "Daddy" had already left....

Photo seems to support an end to crayons and a start to roaring...

But things IMO are not always as they seem.

Capture the photo. Then caption the photo.

I'm not convinced it's a roar. Looks as much like 'show me what's in your mouth".

I think it's at least possible that whatever sound Wm did make was rewritten for the benefit of the very young and very old that day.

Even her odd tale of the tree climbing seems put of place. Making Wm do something he wasn't comfortable doing. Maybe that's not why she shared it. Maybe it was an oversplain, to divorce Wm and high places because Wm's next to last place was at height. Namely the high verandah. As in, Wm couldn't have fallen because Wm doesn't do heights so trust me, nothing high happened.

Because something high did happen IMO and the precursor wasn't playful roaring or any kind of playing at all. But a child trying to escape a scolding.

Those photos, in close siccession, scrapbook fodder? Or...was the female caregiver attempting to record Wm's incorrect dice-rolling behavior? Did Wm behave one way when the male caregiver was home and in another when he was not? (At least as may have been perceived by the female caregiver)

I think the photo, the timeline, the explanations are all off -- and only one person was in control of all of it that morning.

The one who was almost successful in erasing about 30 minutes from the morning.

JMO
The story about the tree has always puzzled me and I have also felt that it could have been used as a way to manipulate the truth and make it seem that William was afraid of heights.

And the timeline - the timeline has never made sense, after all these years we are all still struggling to put it together. When something doesn't make sense, well... it's usually because it's not true. Jmo
 

SLouTh

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Extracted from your post SlouTh BBM: "noticed the caveat on William’s Reward has changed….. it is now to assist in a conviction, where as it was to bring William home initially …".

Similar wording:
William Tyrrell’s family devastated by new claims
“As the seventh anniversary of William’s disappearance approaches on Sunday, NSW Police stressed a $1m reward remained in place for an information that could solve the mystery of his fate.”
Yes CB the wording has definitely changed …from at least the 15 November 2021
Thought I would just reference the quote on the thread….

I would also like to remind everyone from the public there is still a $1 million reward for information leading to the conviction of a person with regard to this," Detective Chief Superintendent Bennett said.

 

SLouTh

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The 18-month coronial inquest into William's disappearance in the NSW Coroners Court is yet to deliver its findings but, according to Chief Superintendent Bennett, it has proven pivotal in driving today's sudden development.”
I wonder what evidence in particular from the Inquest has proven so pivotal??? Thoughts???
 

SouthAussie

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Yes CB the wording has definitely changed …from at least the 15 November 2021
Thought I would just reference the quote on the thread….

I would also like to remind everyone from the public there is still a $1 million reward for information leading to the conviction of a person with regard to this," Detective Chief Superintendent Bennett said.


Hopefully DCS Bennett is not confusing the terms of the reward in William's case with the usual terms of a reward.

I only say that because I looked up the official police list of rewards in NSW to see the change, but the terminology has not changed for the reward in William's case.



(William's reward is 8th from the end of the $1,000,000 rewards in the list. When you click on his profile, it gives the details.)
 

SLouTh

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Hopefully DCS Bennett is not confusing the terms of the reward in William's case with the usual terms of a reward.

I only say that because I looked up the official police list of rewards in NSW to see the change, but the terminology has not changed for the reward in William's case.



(William's reward is 8th from the end of the $1,000,000 rewards in the list. When you click on his profile, it gives the details.)
Thanks SA …. Very interesting ….
Could be an oversight on not changing the terminology on that page perhaps? It looks like the original post…

But yes perhaps DCI Bennet chose the incorrect wording ??? Maybe time will tell ….???

Just out of curiosity do Police ever release details when a reward is paid out in Australia??? It’s not something you hear a lot about ….
 

Couldbe

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Hopefully DCS Bennett is not confusing the terms of the reward in William's case with the usual terms of a reward.

I only say that because I looked up the official police list of rewards in NSW to see the change, but the terminology has not changed for the reward in William's case.



(William's reward is 8th from the end of the $1,000,000 rewards in the list. When you click on his profile, it gives the details.)
This is just my interpretation:
Thanks SA …. Very interesting ….
Could be an oversight on not changing the terminology on that page perhaps? It looks like the original post…

But yes perhaps DCI Bennet chose the incorrect wording ??? Maybe time will tell ….???

Just out of curiosity do Police ever release details when a reward is paid out in Australia??? It’s not something you hear a lot about ….

LIKE A ROW OF DOMINOES ...... if LE received "...... information that leads to the recovery of William Tyrrell", Detective Chief Superintendent Bennett may have revealed that now that they are in possession of evidence that has proven pivotal (".... would also like to remind everyone from the public there is still a $1 million reward for information leading to the conviction of a person with regard to this," Detective Chief Superintendent Bennett said") :

...... someone would be eligible for the $1million reward IF they can supply the information that can prove a connection between William's body and the person(s) liable for William's disappearance. MOO

$1 million NSW Government reward announced for the return on William Tyrrell - NSW Police Public Site
BBM -
“The NSW Government has announced a $1 million reward for information that leads to the recovery of William Tyrrell.”

“This is a unique reward, it does not require the charge and conviction of any person(s), it relates to the recovery of William Tyrrell.”
 
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