Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[Couldbe]

The Coroner has not yet released her findings from the Inquest, and in my opinion, there is information that has been obtained by the Coroner that we are not, as yet, privy to.

JMO – LE have had to put so much effort into checking out tip-offs, interviewing, phones and phone calls, searching, digging, inconsistencies, just to mention a few.

More recently, LE have taken action against FFC and MFC for alleged common assault and stalking.
In addition to those charges, both MFC and FFC are facing charges by the NSW Crime Commission :

Big development in Tyrrell foster mum case
“The foster mother of William Tyrrell is pleading not guilty to a charge of knowingly giving false or misleading evidence during a hearing about the boy’s disappearance, her lawyer says.

Police allege the foster mother, who cannot be identified because of strict court suppression orders, lied or misled NSW Crime Commission officials during the hearing.”

William Tyrrell foster dad faces two years prison if guilty

William Tyrrell's foster father potentially faces up to two years in prison if he is found guilty later this year on two charges of allegedly lying to the state's secretive top crime fighting body.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"William Tyrrell's foster father faces a potential two years in prison if he is found guilty on two charges of allegedly lying to the state's secretive top crime fighting body."

Edited to include link to article relating to NSW Crime Commission charge relating to MFC.

 

[Chrissy74]

These

The Coroner has not yet released her findings from the Inquest, and in my opinion, there is information that has been obtained by the Coroner that we are not, as yet, privy to.

JMO – LE have had to put so much effort into checking out tip-offs, interviewing, phones and phone calls, searching, digging, inconsistencies, just to mention a few.

More recently, LE have taken action against FFC and MFC for alleged common assault and stalking.
In addition to those charges, both MFC and FFC are facing charges by the NSW Crime Commission :

Big development in Tyrrell foster mum case
“The foster mother of William Tyrrell is pleading not guilty to a charge of knowingly giving false or misleading evidence during a hearing about the boy’s disappearance, her lawyer says.

Police allege the foster mother, who cannot be identified because of strict court suppression orders, lied or misled NSW Crime Commission officials during the hearing.”

William Tyrrell foster dad faces two years prison if guilty

William Tyrrell's foster father potentially faces up to two years in prison if he is found guilty later this year on two charges of allegedly lying to the state's secretive top crime fighting body.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"William Tyrrell's foster father faces a potential two years in prison if he is found guilty on two charges of allegedly lying to the state's secretive top crime fighting body."

Edited to include link to article relating to NSW Crime Commission charge relating to MFC.

The nature of the assault charges against the fp are really disturbing . Repeated ongoing violence towards a child. Grabbing around the neck, hitting, kicking,. There’s a lot to be said about this type of aggressive behaviour towards a child. If this is any indication on how the fp deal with a problematic child I hate to think what disciplinary action was used when W was biting and hitting the ffc.

Ffc defends her actions claiming WS was jealous of the younger child in their care and was misbehaving .

Documents from Ws case obtained by the daily mail.
“We had to deal (with) things such as William hitting me, biting me and him being basically furious' with another child in the foster parents' house.”
The foster mother, who said the other child would 'hide under the table and not come out, throw tantrums' “

https://www.dailymail.co.uk › newsExplosive new details about William Tyrrell's foster parents lift lid on ...

This is so freakin sad. What the hell went wrong here. Fp had 3 + children in their care and now they have none. 2 have been removed and one is missing. Is their not something seriously wrong with this picture. Is everyone else to blame but the fp?

 

[SouthAussie]

In terms of where FGM's car may have been parked; the children were reportedly riding their bikes up and down the driveway that morning.

Often people move their cars elsewhere to allow kids to have the room to do this and to prevent your car been hit by a rider.

Judging by the description of the bike riding given by FM, I think FGM's car likely remained in the carport.

It looks like the children rode up and back on the exposed part of the driveway, and also along the front path leading to the front door.

As more and more Coronial documents became available, it became clear that their morning activities had already been looked at closely.

imo

Bombshell documents lift lid on William Tyrrell mystery

Explosive new documents from the William Tyrrell case reveal details about the toddler's life with his foster family, his violent behaviour and an accident days before he vanished.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Mauig’ma]

The FFC clearly used her digital camera, this was stated as fact at the inquest many times.

I'm sure everything to do with those photos taken that day have been gone over forensically.

And it seems imo they are again moo

 

[drsleuth]

And it seems imo they are again moo

If they are still looking into these photos, nearly two years later, than I have little hope for this investigation really.....

 

[Mauig’ma]

If they are still looking into these photos, nearly two years later, than I have little hope for this investigation really.....

A lot of cases can take years to solve. I’m not one bit concerned it’s taken this long. Imo le are closing in on their poi. I have faith and hope and I’m going to hold on to it. Especially now after what we’ve learned about the foster carers’ over the past year or so. I’m more optimistic now than I’ve ever been. I truly feel every day le are inching closer to finding out the real truth of what happened that fateful day. What I’d like to know is how anyone can disregard the accusations/charges and lies of the foster carers? And knowing how horrible the charges are and not feel the foster carers just might end up being involved. I’d love to hear anyones reasoning. I’m open to whatever. I’m here ONLY to help William get the justice this sweet adorable lil guy deserves. I don’t care who did the crime. I only want justice served. Moo

 

[SouthAussie]

What I’d like to know is how anyone can disregard the accusations/charges and lies of the foster carers? And knowing how horrible the charges are and not feel the foster carers just might end up being involved. I’d love to hear anyones reasoning. I’m open to whatever.

Some of us have tried many times to show why we question the latest police theory.

- The photo times have been deemed accurate
- The FD was where he said he was
- There is no allegation that the FP have lied about anything to do with William's disappearance
- There is a very small timeframe for any FP concealment to have happened, especially one that would last almost 8 years
- Some have questioned how anyone would not 'break' with the police pressure the FP have had on them
- There was a lot of political wrangling going on at the time, jockeying for position in an election year, with Karen Webb finally being named as the new Police Commissioner
- The Coroner ordered the last search, after sitting down with officers who wanted to investigate their theory (why did they need a Coronial order to do that .. perhaps they had no just cause?)
- It was a THEORY that was being investigated (balcony fall)
- Nothing was found in the last search

Nobody is disregarding anything imo.

These parents may simply be victims. No need to assassinate their character ... or disregard the terrible events they have endured, the constant trolling they have been the subject of for years, the effect all of this would have on their mental health.

There was a post put up here recently that states "The foster mother DID take a drive that morning." Yet this is said when every single word out of FM's mouth is being questioned as a lie.
It seems to some of us that people believe what they want to believe.
(I am not saying FM did not go for a short drive looking for William, what I am saying is - to some - everything else is a lie and this one thing is the truth??)

imo

 

[drsleuth]

A lot of cases can take years to solve. I’m not one bit concerned it’s taken this long. Imo le are closing in on their poi. I have faith and hope and I’m going to hold on to it. Especially now after what we’ve learned about the foster carers’ over the past year or so. I’m more optimistic now than I’ve ever been. I truly feel every day le are inching closer to finding out the real truth of what happened that fateful day. What I’d like to know is how anyone can disregard the accusations/charges and lies of the foster carers? And knowing how horrible the charges are and not feel the foster carers just might end up being involved. I’d love to hear anyones reasoning. I’m open to whatever. I’m here ONLY to help William get the justice this sweet adorable lil guy deserves. I don’t care who did the crime. I only want justice served. Moo

I am talking about the photos. You said "And it seems imo they are again moo"

I stand by my comment, that if they are still looking into the photos ( which IMO they aren't & I believe the times to be correct ) than I do have concerns with the investigation, if that simple thing has not been resolved after all this time.

 

[Couldbe]

JMO – FFC discovered William to be missing (at that stage, the actual clock time wouldn’t be the main on her mind) and she said at the Inquest:

William Tyrrell inquest: Missing boy’s foster mum knew someone had 'taken him'
"My immediate thought was somebody has taken him and he's gone," she said.

With that ‘somebody has taken him’ thought in her mind …… and with the MFC only 10 minutes away at Lakewood, I wonder why she didn’t immediately phone him?

….. Detectives have estimated that William disappeared between 10.05 – 10.15 am;

Calculating how long she must have been searching (which must have included her drive in the Mazda) …. Around 15 minutes must have elapsed before the text message was seen by her on her phone. (MFC sent it to her at 10.30am).

Was the FFC asked that question during the Inquest? Or is why she didn’t phone him not important?
MOO

 

[drsleuth]

JMO – FFC discovered William to be missing (at that stage, the actual clock time wouldn’t be the main on her mind) and she said at the Inquest:

William Tyrrell inquest: Missing boy’s foster mum knew someone had 'taken him'
"My immediate thought was somebody has taken him and he's gone," she said.

With that ‘somebody has taken him’ thought in her mind …… and with the MFC only 10 minutes away at Lakewood, I wonder why she didn’t immediately phone him?

….. Detectives have estimated that William disappeared between 10.05 – 10.15 am;

Calculating how long she must have been searching (which must have included her drive in the Mazda) …. Around 15 minutes must have elapsed before the text message was seen by her on her phone. (MFC sent it to her at 10.30am).

Was the FFC asked that question during the Inquest? Or is why she didn’t phone him not important?
MOO

She was asked by Mr C : Did you have an expectation when your husband would be back & she answered , " 10:30 at the latest "

She was not asked why she didn't phone him, so I guess it may not be important IMO?

 

[Couldbe]

She was asked by Mr C : Did you have an expectation when your husband would be back & she answered , " 10:30 at the latest "

She was not asked why she didn't phone him, so I guess it may not be important IMO?

Thank you .... MOO - So, can we assume that FFC must have been out driving down Batar Creek Road during the duration of William's disappearance, returning to Benaroon ....... maybe at a time just before the time of MFC's return to Benaroon, which was around 10.35am?

Edited for clarity

 

[drsleuth]

Thank you .... MOO - So, can we assume that FFC must have been out driving down Batar Creek Road during the duration of William's disappearance and MFC's return to Benaroon around 10.35am?

It's really not clear from the questioning from MR C IMO

 

[nightrider17]

When I think about possible POI's - I was certainly swept away with Jubelin and the initial POI of BS.

It fitted with - being possibly aware children were coming to visit - knowing this before they came so having time to put himself in a position to take advantage if a opportunity arose. He had reason to be at the property could easily say he's going to drop bye unannounced with a part.

What I am getting at - is that Jubelin chose to focus on a few POI's among the many possible POI's for a particular reason.

- Opportunity - this certainly was a factor in looking at PS as a POI
- Timing - PS living in the street, going for regular walks


I guess if you look at all the time Jubelin put into these 2 possible POI's - it was for a particular reason


If W is missing for such a short amount of time - then Jubelin has a hard time reconciling with random abduction.

He really was looking at someone who was there for a reason - lived there, or did previous and ongoing work at the property. Because really this scenario of being only missing for a short time - limits other POI's - not impossible but less likely.

And I guess that's why the current POI is now in the frame.

Because a child who doesn't live in the street, but occassionly comes to visit and it was a suprise day earlier and only missing for a short amount of time goes missing.

HOW

Then who knew they were there, other neighbours - possibly -if any neighbours were walking by - they were riding bikes outside, if neighbours didn't see them, maybe some may have heard them. (even though its at the end of the street, they were mainly on the back patio and short time on the driveway).

I am just trying to get at - Jubelin really focused on POI's that had a reason to be in that street - Why?? because a random person (known paedophiles living in the area) - have no idea that W is even there, and W is only missing for a short period of time, which brings us back naturally to the current POI. JMO

People can say - you guys are sooooo mean concentrating on the current POI who is under extreme stress.

Totally get that.

But some questions have pointed to raising this line of thinking - even to explore it to just so you can finally rule her out. JMO

 

[Couldbe]

Your Timeline has been very useful to follow the events of ‘that morning’ … thank you for that DrSleuth:

Feb 28, 2020

Here is my attempt at a Timeline

Taken from evidence I heard, & some from CO's book <modsnip>

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

BBM - “10: 30 : MFC sent text, be back 5 minutes using Siri function on his phone.

10:30 : FFC noticed all quite, can see WT, can't hear WT, starts looking for him

10:35 : MFC arrives back in Benaroon Drive, meets FFC in driveway asks “ have you go


10:30-10:56 : FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.”

I am not, at all, wanting to be critical about your Timeline attempt. I guess since then, Detective Inspector Laidlaw has been re-examining the details associated with William’s disappearance, so those Detectives are hopefully clearer on piecing them together than maybe many of us here on Websleuths. MOO

 

[nightrider17]

Every scenario has to be put through the possible/probable lens.

In the Perth case of CS going missing.

The tent zip was all the way up - question is it possible CS did it - yes maybe she pulled over and over till it went up - but is that probable - no - because it was quite high up - and had she ever done that before?

Did CS randomly leave the tent - is it possible - yes - its it probable - no - because the last time she woke up - thirsty she informed her mum and got permission for water, so would she do something different the next time she woke up?

Things that are possible -need to be tested to their fruition. JMO

 

[drsleuth]

Your Timeline has been very useful to follow the events of ‘that morning’ … thank you for that DrSleuth:

Feb 28, 2020

Here is my attempt at a Timeline

Taken from evidence I heard, & some from CO's book <modsnip>

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

BBM - “10: 30 : MFC sent text, be back 5 minutes using Siri function on his phone.

10:30 : FFC noticed all quite, can see WT, can't hear WT, starts looking for him

10:35 : MFC arrives back in Benaroon Drive, meets FFC in driveway asks “ have you go


10:30-10:56 : FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.”

I am not, at all, wanting to be critical about your Timeline attempt. I guess since then, Detective Inspector Laidlaw has been re-examining the details associated with William’s disappearance, so those Detectives are hopefully clearer on piecing them together than maybe many of us here on Websleuths. MOO

I have to say that Mr C's questioning of the FFC was very disjointed IMO & reading it back it's hard to follow ( this may have been on purpose too I guess? )

He jumped all over the place IMO & was not really in a chronological order all the time, which makes it hard to get an accurate timeline as no actual times were really mentioned other than the time the text was sent , the time of the photos, the time MFC left ( about 9am ) , time they arrived thurs night ( around 9pm ) , the 000 call...........

 

[Couldbe]

I have to say that Mr C's questioning of the FFC was very disjointed IMO & reading it back it's hard to follow ( this may have been on purpose too I guess? )

He jumped all over the place IMO & was not really in a chronological order all the time, which makes it hard to get an accurate timeline as no actual times were really mentioned other than the time the text was sent , the time of the photos, the time MFC left ( about 9am ) , time they arrived thurs night ( around 9pm ) , the 000 call...........

JMO - Yes, and that is why then having those inbetween details from the Inquiry examined and correlating those details and consistencies, together with working to establish legitimate times, would require so much effort by the Coroner and Detectives. There may have even been more questioning (in addition to the NSW Crime Commission) which would take place.

 

[k-mac]

Bombshell documents lift lid on William Tyrrell mystery

Explosive new documents from the William Tyrrell case reveal details about the toddler's life with his foster family, his violent behaviour and an accident days before he vanished.

www.dailymail.co.uk

According to the FF it is not even possible what FM and grandmother said happened. (Wandering off out of sight)

He'd always stay well within, you know, eyesight. He wanted to see where you were.

'He'd certainly be checking over his shoulder just to make sure that you were there or you weren't far away.'

Asked if William would 'wander into a bush', the foster father said 'he'd never do it, never, ever.

'He had this sense about him, he knew where there was danger.'

....

 

[Mauig’ma]

When I think about possible POI's - I was certainly swept away with Jubelin and the initial POI of BS.

It fitted with - being possibly aware children were coming to visit - knowing this before they came so having time to put himself in a position to take advantage if a opportunity arose. He had reason to be at the property could easily say he's going to drop bye unannounced with a part.

What I am getting at - is that Jubelin chose to focus on a few POI's among the many possible POI's for a particular reason.

- Opportunity - this certainly was a factor in looking at PS as a POI
- Timing - PS living in the street, going for regular walks


I guess if you look at all the time Jubelin put into these 2 possible POI's - it was for a particular reason


If W is missing for such a short amount of time - then Jubelin has a hard time reconciling with random abduction.

He really was looking at someone who was there for a reason - lived there, or did previous and ongoing work at the property. Because really this scenario of being only missing for a short time - limits other POI's - not impossible but less likely.

And I guess that's why the current POI is now in the frame.

Because a child who doesn't live in the street, but occassionly comes to visit and it was a suprise day earlier and only missing for a short amount of time goes missing.

HOW

Then who knew they were there, other neighbours - possibly -if any neighbours were walking by - they were riding bikes outside, if neighbours didn't see them, maybe some may have heard them. (even though its at the end of the street, they were mainly on the back patio and short time on the driveway).

I am just trying to get at - Jubelin really focused on POI's that had a reason to be in that street - Why?? because a random person (known paedophiles living in the area) - have no idea that W is even there, and W is only missing for a short period of time, which brings us back naturally to the current POI. JMO

People can say - you guys are sooooo mean concentrating on the current POI who is under extreme stress.

Totally get that.

But some questions have pointed to raising this line of thinking - even to explore it to just so you can finally rule her out. JMO

Excellent post. Great minds think alike. Lol. I don’t think the people here at Websleuths have ever been “mean” or disrespectful towards the poi (foster carer)s). imo us posters’ are only stating the truth and how we see things through our own eyes. Nothing wrong with that imo. This isn’t a game of who done it and you get a prize. I honestly don’t care who did this to lil William. What I do care about is him getting the justice he deserves. And whoever did this needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Pictures or no pictures, time stamped right or not. It all matters and I’m happy le are reviewing everything and everyone. Fresh eyes can’t hurt. I myself will NEVER lose hope. Please William with God’s help show le the way to you. God Bless you William and always remember you’ll always be in our hearts

 

[FromGermany1]

When I think about possible POI's - I was certainly swept away with Jubelin and the initial POI of BS.

It fitted with - being possibly aware children were coming to visit - knowing this before they came so having time to put himself in a position to take advantage if a opportunity arose. He had reason to be at the property could easily say he's going to drop bye unannounced with a part.

What I am getting at - is that Jubelin chose to focus on a few POI's among the many possible POI's for a particular reason.

- Opportunity - this certainly was a factor in looking at PS as a POI
- Timing - PS living in the street, going for regular walks


I guess if you look at all the time Jubelin put into these 2 possible POI's - it was for a particular reason


If W is missing for such a short amount of time - then Jubelin has a hard time reconciling with random abduction.

He really was looking at someone who was there for a reason - lived there, or did previous and ongoing work at the property. Because really this scenario of being only missing for a short time - limits other POI's - not impossible but less likely.

And I guess that's why the current POI is now in the frame.

Because a child who doesn't live in the street, but occassionly comes to visit and it was a suprise day earlier and only missing for a short amount of time goes missing.

HOW

Then who knew they were there, other neighbours - possibly -if any neighbours were walking by - they were riding bikes outside, if neighbours didn't see them, maybe some may have heard them. (even though its at the end of the street, they were mainly on the back patio and short time on the driveway).

I am just trying to get at - Jubelin really focused on POI's that had a reason to be in that street - Why?? because a random person (known paedophiles living in the area) - have no idea that W is even there, and W is only missing for a short period of time, which brings us back naturally to the current POI. JMO

People can say - you guys are sooooo mean concentrating on the current POI who is under extreme stress.

Totally get that.

But some questions have pointed to raising this line of thinking - even to explore it to just so you can finally rule her out. JMO

We don't know, whether GJ concentrated the investigation on involved persons (who might have been someone like BS or PS) or on the INITIATOR of the "abduction" (who might have been the FGM or FFC or MFC). Maybe, GJ was on the right track, but tried to walk it in a roundabout way? It wasn't his intention to tell everyone, maybe.
Is that possible?