Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

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Awakening said:
I read the message today on the official WT page that says;

"Today, after 2845 heartbreaking days since
William was abducted -"

I wonder why the certainty that William was abducted? There's no evidence of an abduction as far as I know.

It's still possible he wandered off and found a particularly obscure hiding spot. He was a tiny 3 year old.

If you look at it through the lens of the FM being a POI then it makes sense for a POI to point the finger at abduction.

If FM is innocent, then maybe she's aware of evidence that points to abduction?

When CS went missing the police had a footprint and dna from the tent that the public weren't aware of until after the case was closed.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I agree Awakening. There is no evidence that conclusively says wt was abducted. The last photo of W IMO is the photo at McDonald’s the day before. The photos supposedly taken that morning i don’t believe we’re taken that morning at all but were “created” or “scanned” that morning at 7:35am and then the time changed at “9:35am. I don’t know how to date the photos released by the coroner can seen as concrete evidence wt was there that morning as they don’t show the correct information to prove that like an “original date or date taken”. Date created is the date the file was created not necessarily the date the actual photo was taken and unfortunately there are programs that can manipulate all those details anyway. Once again IMO this was a well planned and executed disappearance of wt by the fp. Media reports have too many inconsistencies to be taken as truth fp statements have too many inconsistencies to be taken as truth. Nobody saw wt that morning so I’m of the belief that whatever happened to wt happened the night before most likely with their second stop after McDonald’s.
 
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Couldbe said:
JMO - Well explained....When experimented by transferring from laptop to camera, the same explanation seems to apply.
Click to expand...
I also find it strange how the night the ff arrived in Benaroon Drive the kids (who usually sleep together at nanas house) slept in seperate rooms. Did Wt sister see wt that night when they arrived? Possibly not as she was asleep remember and fp may have made out like they had taken wt out of the car first.
Also when fm explains how his sister saw the unknown car in the driveway and asked who it was but not wt as he had crashed his bike into the bushes.
Also fgm stating how the 3 of them sat down for breakfast .
And let’s not forget the dogs not picking up any scent of wt (from original media reports a few days after) some reports later then suggested his scent was picked up but only within the boundaries of the home).
So who exactly saw W that morning?
Kids were heard by neighbours playing yes. But in the ff walkthrough you can clearly hear young children laughing and playing in the background. Noise travels on Benaroon Drive so could very well have been another neighbours children that were heard that morning and not wt. No neighbours confirmed actually seeing wt that morning.
Ff also stated he had gone to the fgm house 2 weeks prior to help clear up the backyard in preparation for the sale. Did they go that day as a family? Could those photos have been taken that morning 2 weeks prior?
 
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Perhaps there were many other photos taken on the camera in the weeks before William’s disappearance. Perhaps there is other evidence that corroborates the camera being out by 2 hours, such as a clock or time on a live television program captured in the background in one of the photos. The re-investigation of the time stamp was just police dotting their i's and crossing their t’s, under coronial orders IMO.
 
Currently reading a (recommended) book by Emma Partridge - one of the crime reporters who was initially reporting on William’s case, which is mentioned in the book.

This book is about another case, however Emma mentions many things about the media-police relationship. Things that may be of interest, and apply, in this case.


Eg:

Her ‘police contact’ messaged her to tell her other journos were asking about the case Emma was interested in, suggesting that Emma go to Walcha now if she wanted to get in first.

She calls a ‘senior police officer she knows’ to find out more about the case, the officer tells her the locals are bang on with their suspicions, Emma was on the right track.

She calls a police media unit and is told (off the record) that the POI is being looked at for the unexplained death, and then Emma is emailed the official media response which doesn’t include that tidbit.

“Over the years, I’ve come to know and respect many great police, and even call some of them friends. The same goes with police media officers. I’ve no doubt some hate me – and vice versa – but there are others I trust and who trust me.”

“Most days, it feels like walking a tightrope – trying to maintain a balance of reporting the facts and doing the right, human thing.”

“It’s also helpful for police to be open because they can ask reporters not to report on certain information, which may impact their investigation.”

Re: the police media unit … “it allows the police to set the news agenda”.


Source: Chapters 2 & 3, The Widow of Walcha, Emma Partridge (Kindle version)
Simon & Schuster Australia (May 4, 2022)
 
S
Lemony said:
Perhaps there were many other photos taken on the camera in the weeks before William’s disappearance. Perhaps there is other evidence that corroborates the camera being out by 2 hours, such as a clock or time on a live television program captured in the background in one of the photos. The re-investigation of the time stamp was just police dotting their i's and crossing their t’s, under coronial orders IMO.
Click to expand...
Sorry Lemony but that doesn’t answer my question of proof that the photos were taken that particular day. The tv was in a position that couldn’t be seen in any of the photos and a clock doesn’t show a date. A created date is not the same as original date or date taken. The word created is self explanatory. And the photos released don’t even say “created date” they just say “created”.
 
Lemony said:
Perhaps there were many other photos taken on the camera in the weeks before William’s disappearance. Perhaps there is other evidence that corroborates the camera being out by 2 hours, such as a clock or time on a live television program captured in the background in one of the photos. The re-investigation of the time stamp was just police dotting their i's and crossing their t’s, under coronial orders IMO.
Click to expand...

Yes, this has been confirmed in MSM. (UBM)

10 News First understands the foster mother told police she had never entered the correct time in the digital camera, which is why there is a two hour discrepancy not just on that photo, but all the photos taken on that camera prior to that day.

Thread 52, post 1613
 
SouthAussie said:
Yes, this has been confirmed in MSM. (UBM)

10 News First understands the foster mother told police she had never entered the correct time in the digital camera, which is why there is a two hour discrepancy not just on that photo, but all the photos taken on that camera prior to that day.

Thread 52, post 1613
Click to expand...
What’s been confirmed in msm doesn’t make it true. It’s only what’s been reported to them. Ffm(poi) lied about something le can prove. Imo this is the one thing that they’ve now proved to be wrong. Ffc lied about things. Hopefully we’ll be privy to that info soon. The heat is on and I have hope one of the foster parents will break soon. Truth will prevail imo. Very very soon. Moo
 
In quoting from drsleuth's timeline:
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52
"10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFC comes to her fence. AMS could hear a male voice loudly calling for William in the background coming from behind FGM's house. BBM
"10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.
11:00 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley see's the job
11:00 ish : Mrs Crabb said FFC & MFC came up theirdriveway extremely distressed ( CO book ) The asked me “ Have you seen alittle boy in a spiderman suit?” MFC looked around their backyard.Crabbs had a quick look in their garden before hurrying out in their car& drove to a property who they knew had a pool ( they knew a child who had drowned ) , banged on front door, no-one home. Searched pool.Than went to the Miller’s ( they were collecting mail & putting binsout etc whilst the Miller’s were away) They did not have a key for theMiller’s, knew a relative & drove to get key, went back to Millerparked in their driveway & watched police enter the house. William was not there. BY now people were everywhere calling out his name.
11:06 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley arrives @ Benaroon Drive"

JMO...... Regarding the bolded above: I am proposing that FFC purposely waited until MFC arrived back at Benaroon (at 10.35 am) until she commenced approaching neighbours (AMS the first one). During the Inquest: William Tyrrell's foster mother filmed retracing her steps with police
"William's foster mother - who is now a person of interest in the long-running case - described how she drove all the way to a busy road before accepting he was gone after frantically checking with neighbours that he hadn't wandered into their yards." BBM
...... If, as described by FFFC, she drove AFTER checking with neighbours, then:-
  1. Why take FFGM's Mazda (when MFC had arrived back home with their vehicle)?;
  2. Was FFC seen going/during/returning by anyone (other than the semi-truck driver who flew past her when she had her head out of the window)?
  3. 000 call occurred at 10.56 am .... very short period of time (from 10.40 am until 10.56 am = approx 15 mins) for her to procure the keys / jump in the Mazda / reverse out / drive down (including pulling over and stopping before slowly driving on to the Riding School / turning around / driving back / then out of the vehicle before Senior Constable Rowley arrived to see her ( she wasn't still in the car).
SO did that drive happen at the time she said that it did?

Edited for bolding and clarity

Edited again: More importantly that 15 mins had to include FFC going up and grabbing FGM's landline / and returning back downstairs / consulting with MFC about calling 000 / then calling.
 
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Couldbe said:
In quoting from drsleuth's timeline:
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52
"10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFCcomes to her fence. AMS could hear male voice loudly calling for Williamin the background coming from behind FGM's house." BBM
"10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.11:00 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley see's the job11:00 ish : Mrs Crabb said FFC & MFC came up theirdriveway extremely distressed ( CO book ) The asked me “ Have you seen alittle boy in a spiderman suit?” MFC looked around their backyard.Crabbs had a quick look in their garden before hurrying out in their car& drove to a property who they knew had a pool ( they knew a childwho had drowned ) , banged on front door, no-one home. Searched pool.Than went to the Miller’s ( they were collecting mail & putting binsout etc whilst the Miller’s were away) They did not have a key for theMiller’s, knew a relative & drove to get key, went back to Millerparked in their driveway & watched police enter the house. William was not there. BY now people were everywhere calling out his name.11:06 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley arrives @ Benaroon Drive"

JMO...... Regarding the bolded above: I am proposing that FFC purposely waited until MFC arrived back at Benaroon (at 10.35 am) until she commenced approaching neighbours (AMS the first one). During the Inquest: William Tyrrell's foster mother filmed retracing her steps with police
"William's foster mother - who is now a person of interest in the long-running case - described how she drove all the way to a busy road before accepting he was gone after frantically checking with neighbours that he hadn't wandered into their yards." BBM
...... If, as described by FFFC, she drove AFTER checking with neighbours, then:-
  1. Why take FFGM's Mazda (when MFC had arrived back home with their vehicle)?;
  2. Was FFC seen going/during/returning by anyone (other than the semi-truck driver who flew past her when she had her head out of the window)?
  3. 000 call occurred at 10.56 am .... very short period of time (from 10.40 am until 10.56 am = approx 15 mins) for her to procure the keys / jump in the Mazda / reverse out / drive down (including pulling over and stopping before slowly driving on to the Riding School / turning around / driving back / then out of the vehicle before Senior Constable Rowley arrived to see her ( she wasn't still in the car).
SO did that drive happen at the time she said that it did?
Click to expand...
It would be great if someone could point to where FFC said at what time, or at what point in her timeline, she did go for that drive. As far as I know she's maintained ambiguity about when it happened.
 
Mauig’ma said:
What’s been confirmed in msm doesn’t make it true. It’s only what’s been reported to them. Ffm(poi) lied about something le can prove. Imo this is the one thing that they’ve now proved to be wrong. Ffc lied about things. Hopefully we’ll be privy to that info soon. The heat is on and I have hope one of the foster parents will break soon. Truth will prevail imo. Very very soon. Moo
Click to expand...

I would just like to point out that what is being quoted here that I have bolded, is also from MSM so that doesn't make it the truth either IMO.
 
Mauig’ma said:
Ffm(poi) lied about something le can prove. Imo this is the one thing that they’ve now proved to be wrong.
Click to expand...

If you mean the time of the photos, that is not what the alleged false or misleading evidence is stated to be.

The (untried, untested) false or misleading evidence - as stated in the Caselaw - is about the alleged assault.

The Caselaw, of course, being a Supreme Court document.


.... knowingly giving false or misleading evidence to the New South Wales Crime Commission. That evidence involved answers to questions denying the assault which was the subject of the charge laid against her in the Local Court.

Nationwide News Pty Ltd v JS and SD - NSW Caselaw

www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au
 
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A few points about the FGM Car being seized and driven by the FM….

It comes as a car belonging to William's now-deceased foster grandmother at the time he went missing was also seized from a home at Gymea, in Sydney's south, under a coronial order last Tuesday.

The vehicle, a grey Mazda hatchback, is undergoing forensic analysis, which is expected to take several weeks.

www.9news.com.au

William Tyrrell's foster mother a person of interest in his disappearance

www.9news.com.au www.9news.com.au


Paraphrased from the The Daily Telegraph:

Fresh information has led to police taking the foster grandmother’s grey Mazda for testing.

A new examination of the Mazda will include testing for DNA, and police said they expected to keep the car for several weeks….

Both the Fosters car,and the FGM car, had already been examined days after William went missing seven years ago.

It is unsure how thorough the initial testing was, but the police expert Forensic Services Group was involved from the start of the investigation.


Also of note,is that the images shown of the FGM Mazda being seized were released by the NSW Police to the media…

Police are said to be investigating whether the vehicle was used to move the child’s body after his death.
astorlegal.com.au

William Tyrell Foster Parents Charged with Common Assault - Astor Legal

In a shocking twist, the foster parents of William Tyrrell have been charged with common assault of a child.
astorlegal.com.au

Is the “new information” from whom ever was driving the car that the FM let past her???

She told police she drove down Batar Creek Road looking for William and stopped at the riding school to let a car behind her pass, taking a moment to make sure he wasn't nearby.


The foster mother allegedly made the drive in her mother's car before her husband had returned to the house to join the search for William.

www.dailymail.co.uk

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'

A grey Mazda which once belonged to William's late foster grandmother was allegedly used by his foster mother near the spot on the NSW mid north coast where the toddler disappeared.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
SouthAussie said:
The (untried, untested) false or misleading evidence - as stated in the Caselaw - is about the alleged assault.

The Caselaw, of course, being a Supreme Court document.


.... knowingly giving false or misleading evidence to the New South Wales Crime Commission. That evidence involved answers to questions denying the assault which was the subject of the charge laid against her in the Local Court.
Click to expand...
Agree SA … that is also how I read and interpreted the Caselaw Document…

I have wondered (meaning a theory of my own) if these charges were subsequently made because of the FM’s intention to use a Mental Health Defence for the alleged assault charges??
And that Police are possibly thinking that FM may be successful using that defence…???

Would have to double check the dates of all the charges and hearings to confirm this ”theory”…..

imo
 
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JLZ said:
It would be great if someone could point to where FFC said at what time, or at what point in her timeline, she did go for that drive. As far as I know she's maintained ambiguity about when it happened.
Click to expand...
This information has been alleged in a few different media articles now, …..but as for the direct source of the information I don’t know ….

Before her husband returned home, the foster mother leapt in the foster grandmother’s car to search for William.

 
Detective Willy said:
Throw in the 6 weeks of deleted texts and the Foster Carers were trying to cover up or hide something.
Click to expand...
If they both deleted the same six weeks of texts you might ask questions, but I dont see any problem in one deleting them, I delete blocks of email and texts, I just pick a name that I know is unlikely to have anything I need to keep, even more likely to be my husbands as I know if I have deleted something important accidentally, I’d be able to retrieve it through him.
 
Couldbe said:
Was FFC seen going/during/returning by anyone (other than the semi-truck driver who flew past her when she had her head out of the window)?
Click to expand...
I am thinking that this is a definite possibility…..

In my above post, about the car and the drive, another car is mentioned ….
Have Police found this driver?? Is this person possibly a local ???

She told police she drove down Batar Creek Road looking for William and stopped at the riding school to let a car behind her pass, taking a moment to make sure he wasn't nearby.


And Police seem to be double checking everything right from the beginning … and this could include witness statements about that day that included information about the entire morning rather than just after 10am …

Strike Force Officer-in-charge Detective Chief Inspector David Laidlaw said: “Further information has since come to light, as part of our ongoing review of the materials gathered by investigators since the moment William went missing seven years ago.”

“As our team continue to conduct inquiries and explore all avenues of investigation, our focus has been identifying if anything has been missed, or if there are any details – no matter how small – that need to be clarified,” Laidlaw added.

oversixty.com.au

Shock twist in seven-year search for William Tyrrell | OverSixty

NSW Police have confirmed “further information” has “come to light” in the seven-year search for missing toddler William Tyrrell.
oversixty.com.au oversixty.com.au
 
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Couldbe said:
Why take FFGM's Mazda (when MFC had arrived back home with their vehicle)?;
Click to expand...
Very good point …. and makes total sense CB
Couldbe said:
SO did that drive happen at the time she said that it did?
Click to expand...
It would appear that “the drive“ occurred before the FM returned home to Benaroon Drive, from subsequent media articles ….
Couldbe said:
10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.
Click to expand...
I think this 15 - 20mins is correct…. for the time period of searching, from when the FF arrived home until making the 000 call …
It appears from evidence obtained from media articles, post William’s Inquest, that possibly the neighbours were not approached until FF returned to Benaroon Drive…

And that this point (below) is correct…. re the time…. It seems to fit the above explanation ….

10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFC comes to her fence. AMS could hear a male voice loudly calling for William in the background coming from behind FGM's house. BBM

imo
 
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