Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #73

JBowie

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And as an aside, back in December, Jubes had been invited by the Governor of NSW (Margaret Beasley) to attend a Justice Reform Initiative reception at Government House.

“The invitation feels like a chance to rejoin those on the right side of the criminal justice system.”

Jubes attended, along with “two former federal Cabinet ministers, a Director of Public Prosecutions, a prisons inspector, four judges and the former leader of the State Liberal Party, and the VP of the Nationals Party”.


Source: Badness by Gary Jubelin and Dan Box, chapter Whose Values Are Working?

I'd love to know who that Director of Public Prosecutions was. For years NSW suffered a DPP who a cop I know said was referred to within the force as the 'director of pathetic prosecutions' for his legendary inaction.

The very DPP refused to prosecute Chris Dawson for the murder of his wife Lynette despite two inquests recommending that course of action. Said former DPP refused to comment following Dawson's recent conviction.

 

SouthAussie

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I'd love to know who that Director of Public Prosecutions was. For years NSW suffered a DPP who a cop I know said was referred to within the force as the 'director of pathetic prosecutions' for his legendary inaction.

The very DPP refused to prosecute Chris Dawson for the murder of his wife Lynette despite two inquests recommending that course of action. Said former DPP refused to comment following Dawson's recent conviction.


Well, Jubes doesn't say a former Director of Public Prosecutions (whereas he does say former about a couple of other people), so I imagine it is a current director. Current as of Dec 2021, anyway.
 

Warshawski

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My few comments about things I think some others may be interested in are probably not going to present any clear view of the book, or the discussions about William that are dotted through the book.

But I find it interesting to read all of the different things he mentions about the case ... the little details. Some of the things I didn't know.


Eg: Some time after the last tranche, the State Director of Inquests wrote to Jubes and asked him to lay out on paper what he knew about the case.

(Source: Badness by Gary Jubelin and Dan Box, chapter Stolen From Me)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts SA. I find everything of interest & value. As I’m known to espouse - ‘knowledge is powerful, often when you least expect it to be’!

I do question however WHY if Mr Jubelin has this much to impart - is it not being heard / endorsed ?

So perhaps I have to think about the possible answers…..

Was his downfall due to ‘internal politics’ ( as we who’ve trod the path so well understand)

But how is it that those clashes were not be resolved - doesn‘t take that long to work out / embrace personalities, unless you’re ‘unembraceable’.

Just clearing the air in consideration of the fact that Mr Jubelin is ok looking /seems to hold a good conversation/ is pretty charismatic etc - but IMO, in this instance we’re not about any of that.

IMO, we’re here to try to work out what happened when a little 3 year old boy seemingly disappeared into the unknown, many years ago. And that’s what I want to focus on, scant as the public intel is.

As much as I will fall to the traps of human nature & covet all the gossip etc, I’m really trying to be objective & focus on the ‘truth’.

I know that Truth will come out eventually, and I applaud the commitment of the investigation team, I do have faith in their guidance & strength.

My prayer is for the continual strength of those closest to that little boy. (myheart breaks for them & I can’t even begin to imagine their pain & their challenges to continue. .it’s an unknown for many to survive the loss of a child -thankfully )
 

SouthAussie

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I'd love to know who that Director of Public Prosecutions was. For years NSW suffered a DPP who a cop I know said was referred to within the force as the 'director of pathetic prosecutions' for his legendary inaction.

The very DPP refused to prosecute Chris Dawson for the murder of his wife Lynette despite two inquests recommending that course of action. Said former DPP refused to comment following Dawson's recent conviction.


I looked to see who the Director was in Dec 2021 (has been director since Aug 2021). Sally Dowling SC. Apparently, the appointment of the director is for a 10 year term.

 

Warshawski

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My few comments about things I think some others may be interested in are probably not going to present any clear view of the book, or the discussions about William that are dotted through the book.

But I find it interesting to read all of the different things he mentions about the case ... the little details. Some of the things I didn't know.


Eg: Some time after the last tranche, the State Director of Inquests wrote to Jubes and asked him to lay out on paper what he knew about the case.

(Source: Badness by Gary Jubelin and Dan Box, chapter Stolen From Me)

I don’t doubt your interest SA. It’s all very intriguing to say the least.

I’m interested to know who / what is the ‘State Director of Inquests’. I‘m aware of a State Coroner role but not previously come across the afore mentioned.
 

Chrissy74

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And as an aside, back in December, Jubes had been invited by the Governor of NSW (Margaret Beasley) to attend a Justice Reform Initiative reception at Government House.

“The invitation feels like a chance to rejoin those on the right side of the criminal justice system.”

Jubes attended, along with “two former federal Cabinet ministers, a Director of Public Prosecutions, a prisons inspector, four judges and the former leader of the State Liberal Party, and the VP of the Nationals Party”.


Source: Badness by Gary Jubelin and Dan Box, chapter Whose Values Are Working?
It’s interesting to see the mfc choice of legal representation for his 2 charges of giving false or misleading information to a public authority. Top criminal lawyer Carly Hydes was hired by the mfc to defend him in court on alleged lying charges.
www.dailymail.co.ukWilliam Tyrrell's foster dad faces prison if guilty - as glamorous lawyer demands ...
Carly Hydes is a partner of the law firm “Macdougall and Hydes lawyers”. Lawyers from the same firm as Hydes “Lauren MacDougall and Margaret Cunneen” were the lawyers representing GJ in court for his charges of illegal recorderings.


https://www.macdougallhydes.com.au › ...The ironic Prosecution of Gary Jubelin - MacDougall & Hydes Lawyers

I wonder if mfc choice in lawyers was a personal recommendation from GJ.

It’s also possible that the coroner referred the inquest papers to the DPP.
 
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Couldbe

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JMO – Following Jubelin’s very public detective work directed at Bill Spedding (the washing machine repairman) he then appeared to switched his attention to Paul Savage (who lived opposite FFGM). I am sure other avenues of investigation were pursued, one of which was ‘going hard’ on FFC and MFC.

It would appear that Jubelin is now directing his attention to questioning whether the tactics being used by police could “destroy lives”, and this is an understandable view, especially in the light of what we saw eventuate in regard to Spedding and Savage.
 

Chrissy74

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JMO – Following Jubelin’s very public detective work directed at Bill Spedding (the washing machine repairman) he then appeared to switched his attention to Paul Savage (who lived opposite FFGM). I am sure other avenues of investigation were pursued, one of which was ‘going hard’ on FFC and MFC.

It would appear that Jubelin is now directing his attention to questioning whether the tactics being used by police could “destroy lives”, and this is an understandable view, especially in the light of what we saw eventuate in regard to Spedding and Savage.
So are you suggesting GJ is questioning his own tactics used in the WT investigation or implying these sorts of life destroying tactics are generally used by police?
 

Couldbe

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So are you suggesting GJ is questioning his own tactics used in the WT investigation or implying these sorts of life destroying tactics are generally used by police?
What I was trying to convey was that Jubelin would have had demonstrated to him how devastating it has been for Spedding and Savage, and he has now chosen to express his view of such effects ..... in his endeavour to 'speak for and defend' other POIs. MOO
 

JLZ

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What I was trying to convey was that Jubelin would have had demonstrated to him how devastating it has been for Spedding and Savage, and he has now chosen to express his view of such effects ..... in his endeavour to 'speak for and defend' other POIs. MOO
I think it's the publicity as to who is suspected that Jubelin is opposing. He says he's not responsible for the media being all over Spedding, and we didn't find out about Savage's POI status until the inquest. He's not apologising for the damage done to those two by his investigation tactics.
 

Chrissy74

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What I was trying to convey was that Jubelin would have had demonstrated to him how devastating it has been for Spedding and Savage, and he has now chosen to express his view of such effects ..... in his endeavour to 'speak for and defend' other POIs. MOO
More like making a very BOLD statement rather than a display of redemption!!
 
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Chrissy74

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I think it's the publicity as to who is suspected that Jubelin is opposing. He says he's not responsible for the media being all over Spedding, and we didn't find out about Savage's POI status until the inquest. He's not apologising for the damage done to those two by his investigation tactics.
Good on GJ for going hard in his interrogation of the fp in 2016. I wouldn’t be surprised if their statements raised more questions than answers.
 

Wexford

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I think it's the publicity as to who is suspected that Jubelin is opposing. He says he's not responsible for the media being all over Spedding, and we didn't find out about Savage's POI status until the inquest. He's not apologising for the damage done to those two by his investigation tactics.
He wasn't on the case when Spedding's name hit the media. A friend of the family indicated early on who it was that gave Spedding's name and that person presumably also mentioned he had some historical allegations against him. That is what caused the intense media interest and if that person had a grudge against him (as was indicated) then they probably contacted the media as well. Once the media got that story it would be hard to stop. Probably why it was not made public about Savage until later on. The media coverage of the walk through done with Jubelin and the Speddings seemed to be him giving them the opportunity to clear their names to the media and the public.
 

JLZ

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He wasn't on the case when Spedding's name hit the media. A friend of the family indicated early on who it was that gave Spedding's name and that person presumably also mentioned he had some historical allegations against him. That is what caused the intense media interest and if that person had a grudge against him (as was indicated) then they probably contacted the media as well. Once the media got that story it would be hard to stop. Probably why it was not made public about Savage until later on. The media coverage of the walk through done with Jubelin and the Speddings seemed to be him giving them the opportunity to clear their names to the media and the public.
I think what's under discussion though is whether there's an inconsistency between Jubelin saying "what if they're innocent--you're ruining lives" about the recent treatment of the foster parents, and the way he treated other POIs when he was a cop. And if so, is the explanation that he values some lives more than others, or is it that he's learnt from experience--rather late in the day--or what? I was trying out an "or what" explanation: that from his point of view there's no inconsistency, because he supports going hard on suspects whoever they are, but he doesn't support certain uses of the media against them and he certainly doesn't support police leaking. I don't necessarily agree that he went equally hard on the foster parents when he was in charge, but that's an adjacent issue.
 

SouthAussie

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I think what's under discussion though is whether there's an inconsistency between Jubelin saying "what if they're innocent--you're ruining lives" about the recent treatment of the foster parents, and the way he treated other POIs when he was a cop. And if so, is the explanation that he values some lives more than others, or is it that he's learnt from experience--rather late in the day--or what? I was trying out an "or what" explanation: that from his point of view there's no inconsistency, because he supports going hard on suspects whoever they are, but he doesn't support certain uses of the media against them and he certainly doesn't support police leaking. I don't necessarily agree that he went equally hard on the foster parents when he was in charge, but that's an adjacent issue.

I think the point is that Jubes didn't treat the POIs in the same manner as the FPs have been treated.
Bottom line ..... he didn't leak to the media.

He didn't leak Spedding's search, he didn't leak Spedding's arrest.

Both of those leaks came from higher ups. He has stated it many times (and I believe I have linked the statements before). And he would like to see a public inquiry about it all - presumably, in part, so the right people are accountable for their actions. And so we can all see if everything that can be done, has been done.

Spedding's search leak was out before Jubes picked up the case. Spedding's arrest leak was done by a higher up.
No leak about Savage at all, the inquest (and Jubes' charges) brought him to light.

Jubes makes no apology for going hard on Spedding and Savage.
I don't think he has a problem with them going hard on the FPs.
It is all the publicity that is the problem, and has been the problem for the POIs all along.

imo


There is a part in the latest book where the Director of Inquests told Jubes he needed to search Savage's property.

"What about the email I received from the Director of Inquests at the New South Wales Department of Justice suggesting I apply for another order, this time to search Paul's home? Without a search, that email said, 'should any person be charged in the future, such person could reasonably say that a necessary step to eliminate Paul from suspicion had not been taken'. I provided that email to the police when I was under investigation."

Source: Badness by Gary Jubelin and Dan Box, chapter Badness
 
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T-dawg420

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Jubes makes no apology for going hard on Spedding and Savage.
I don't think he has a problem with them going hard on the FPs.
It is all the publicity that is the problem, and has been the problem for the POIs all along.
I totally agree with this comment. Jubelin shouldn’t have to apologise for going hard on any POI, nor should any police officer. As long as they do it in the right way then if someone has nothing to hide then they shouldn’t have an issue with getting the police spotlight put on them IMO.

The leaks to the media are obviously done for a reason, but they seem to do nothing but cause a lot of damage to the subject of the leak, regardless of their guilt or innocence! Which to me just stinks to high heaven!

And with the media leaks that have happened in this case, they don’t seem to be any closer to solving it!
 

Awakening

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I totally agree with this comment. Jubelin shouldn’t have to apologise for going hard on any POI, nor should any police officer. As long as they do it in the right way then if someone has nothing to hide then they shouldn’t have an issue with getting the police spotlight put on them IMO.

The leaks to the media are obviously done for a reason, but they seem to do nothing but cause a lot of damage to the subject of the leak, regardless of their guilt or innocence! Which to me just stinks to high heaven!

And with the media leaks that have happened in this case, they don’t seem to be any closer to solving it!

What's it been now? 10 months since they announced the "big dig" and made it sound like an arrest was imminent? Certainly expected a big break in the case by now.
 

HavenWood

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If the area for the "big dig" was based on phone pings, or even a witness seeing the car in that area ... that doesn't necessarily mean a body would be found there? You would think that if William or his clothes had been found, we might have heard something.
Could it be possible that (if William was dead) he was driven to the area of the "big dig" but instead of being buried there was instead given to another person to dispose of the body somewhere else, OR (if alive) could he have been passed on to another person for nefarious purposes? Afterall it is starting to look like the people that we always held to be innocent in his disappearance aren't exactly the people we were led to believe. Possible anger issues, possible abuse, possibly not wanting a child that was too much for them.
 
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