Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #73

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Couldbe

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FFC had her Mental Health Application dismissed … She had applied to have the common assault and intimidation to be dealt with under the Mental Health Act.

William Tyrrell’s foster mother denied mental health application over alleged assault of young girl
“Magistrate Peter Feather said: “Seems that the alleged victim began to act up to some extent.”
SD was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and PTSD, and some of her mental ill-health relates to the “difficult relationship she had with her mother and the loss of her mother in most recent years … in fairly difficult circumstances,” he said.”

JMO - While daughters can have difficult relationships with their Mothers, it does not mean they will necessarily go on to use harsh physical methods to discipline children of their own.
 

bearbear

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FFC had her Mental Health Application dismissed … She had applied to have the common assault and intimidation to be dealt with under the Mental Health Act.

William Tyrrell’s foster mother denied mental health application over alleged assault of young girl
“Magistrate Peter Feather said: “Seems that the alleged victim began to act up to some extent.”
SD was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and PTSD, and some of her mental ill-health relates to the “difficult relationship she had with her mother and the loss of her mother in most recent years … in fairly difficult circumstances,” he said.”

JMO - While daughters can have difficult relationships with their Mothers, it does not mean they will necessarily go on to use harsh physical methods to discipline children of their own.
and most people have some sort of baggage from their childhood, i wonder what the "fairly difficult circumstances" regarding her mothers death mean?
 

Doesitmakesense

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Old school discipline???

Just like they used to have in schools - where teachers were allowed to smack misbehaving children on the back of the leg or across the hand with rulers. Principals giving the cane for more serious repeat offenders.


But ........ this is not allowed any more in schools - this old school discipline.

Smacking across the face.

Kicking

Hitting with a wooden spoon.

If this child is 10 years old could this have been happening all their life with this person as a discipline technique. MOO


With educated, modern and informed parent/parents. I really cannot accept this "old school disciplining" is acceptable from this couple who know better.

And I don't feel it's just a recent "she snapped" occurrence either. MOO
I imagine IMO that while trying to become a foster parent their would have been a course or something similar discussing appropriate discipline techniques, which I very much doubt included kicking, hitting with wooden spoon or "trying to break" the children placed into care. IMO
 

SouthAussie

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and yet... The court was played audio from one of the bugs, in which a child could be heard sobbing and saying “no” and “please”

Exactly. The FM was charged with allegedly assaulting one child. I agree it was likely the one who was sobbing (and punished).

The non-crying child appears to have sustained a burgeoning welt on her leg.

I don't think it is that confusing.

(And I don't think anyone should have been hitting anyone..... just to be clear. Just gaining a better understanding of what probably happened. imo )
 

SouthAussie

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I imagine IMO that while trying to become a foster parent their would have been a course or something similar discussing appropriate discipline techniques, which I very much doubt included kicking, hitting with wooden spoon or "trying to break" the children placed into care. IMO

It is very clear that corporal punishment of a child in care is prohibited. The links have been posted before.

Interestingly and as an aside, biological parents can use corporal punishment on a child in NSW, within limits.

I will look for the link again and add it to this post.


"In New South Wales, corporal punishment is prohibited in out-of-home-care under Section 41 of the Children and Young Persons (Care and Protection) Regulations 2012.

Section 61AA of the Crimes Act 1900 provides that when a person is charged with an assault arising out of the application of physical force to a child, it is a defence if the force was applied for the purpose of punishment if:
  • It was done by the child’s parent or someone acting for their parent;
  • The physical force was reasonable having regard to the age, health, maturity or other characteristics of the child and the nature of the misbehaviour or other circumstances."
Corporal Punishment of Children (NSW)
 
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FromGermany1

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FFC had her Mental Health Application dismissed … She had applied to have the common assault and intimidation to be dealt with under the Mental Health Act.

William Tyrrell’s foster mother denied mental health application over alleged assault of young girl
“Magistrate Peter Feather said: “Seems that the alleged victim began to act up to some extent.”
SD was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and PTSD, and some of her mental ill-health relates to the “difficult relationship she had with her mother and the loss of her mother in most recent years … in fairly difficult circumstances,” he said.”

JMO - While daughters can have difficult relationships with their Mothers, it does not mean they will necessarily go on to use harsh physical methods to discipline children of their own.
If FGM also disciplined her daughter SD during her childhood/youth with kicking and beating with wooden spoons, the way of punishment was/is wellknown to FFC. It doesn't mean, that FFC was allowed to use the same methods. On the contrary: she could have known, how humiliating and mean this violence would be. FFC could have controlled herself far better than her mother ever did. NO excuse. IMO
"In fairly difficult circumstances" FFC lost her mother. The "circumstances" are the loss of little W, I think.
 

iiiii's

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Exactly. The FM was charged with allegedly assaulting one child. I agree it was likely the one who was sobbing (and punished).

The non-crying child appears to have sustained a burgeoning welt on her leg.

I don't think it is that confusing.

(And I don't think anyone should have been hitting anyone..... just to be clear. Just gaining a better understanding of what probably happened. imo )
I'm not confused by the premise you are presenting, however, it can also be read that she assaulted a child which resulted in crying and then reported to her husband that the punishment she doled out was physically visible but she didn't cry. If that scenario is correct it points to her being untruthful in her recounting of events. Unless I've missed something in the article, it hasn't referred to 2 kids receiving punishment. How the child was assaulted does not read clearly in the article but to assume that because it does not read clearly then it's likely 2 kids were given different physical punishment may be a stretch. IMO

Also, getting down to the nitty gritty of the act around corporal punishment in the home in NSW was not easy, however, it is taught in schools etc that parents may only use an open hand, not above the shoulders, not below the knees and are never allowed to use implements such as spoons and belts.
 

JBowie

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Tangential, but relates to Australia's longest unsolved murder inquiry that was finally resolved, the Claremont serial killings, and for me this quote has some resonance with recent criticism of Rosann police:

Detectives regularly got themselves wedged down rabbit holes. They ignored lesser crimes that turned out to provide vital clues. They followed the wrong suspects obsessively on gut feel rather than evidence.

 

sleepinoz

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Tangential, but relates to Australia's longest unsolved murder inquiry that was finally resolved, the Claremont serial killings, and for me this quote has some resonance with recent criticism of Rosann police:

Detectives regularly got themselves wedged down rabbit holes. They ignored lesser crimes that turned out to provide vital clues. They followed the wrong suspects obsessively on gut feel rather than evidence.

BBM - and they're still doing it IMO
 

Couldbe

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LolaAngelina

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[email protected]

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Tangential, but relates to Australia's longest unsolved murder inquiry that was finally resolved, the Claremont serial killings, and for me this quote has some resonance with recent criticism of Rosann police:

Detectives regularly got themselves wedged down rabbit holes. They ignored lesser crimes that turned out to provide vital clues. They followed the wrong suspects obsessively on gut feel rather than evidence.

True JBowie but in the case on the Claremont Killer there were so many warning signs which IMO could have prevented the Claremont Murders happening, which he was under the radar but had assault charge against where it was brushed under the carpet he only got a rap on the wrist this was just a few years before the first killing. The lady has from the assault charge has released a book "Keep calm, It Only The Claremont Killer".
Unlike in William T case there was no warning signs, no clues, little DNA just like the Beamont Chidren who vanished years earlier, and today not solved. Even the Burnies case, Perth 1986 was solved IMO by remarkable events, the girl escaping then convincing the female police officer in what happened so to take action.
The when the Burnies being interviewed for a few hours, a Decitive did a bluff as there been missing women last few months in Perth, His comment " So David we know about the missing women." He was shocked, when David Burnie replied, " You found the bodies".
I compared this to the massive interviews by Rossin Force on Foster cares and other people, the recent Foster Mother trial have come up with very little information regarding William, this maybe causing them to go down rabbit holes. IMO.
I know this is William thread JBowie and everyone, but have you looked at the Documentary about the Claremont Killer, your thoughts. Tried to watch trial but was busy with family life etc I wondering did the question about the Riding School/Edward connection to it in the Doco was answered, kids at his school knew. I wondered if they spoke up .
WA Police made error it took time but answers finally came, maybe this is what Rossin they need is more time, take a breath, look with fresh eyes past files and finally answers and justice for William can be done.
 

JBowie

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I know this is William thread JBowie and everyone, but have you looked at the Documentary about the Claremont Killer, your thoughts.

The documentary in question has not aired yet. From the quoted SMH article:

"Claremont: A Killer Among Us" is on Wednesday, 23 November, 7.30pm on Ten and 10Play.

These days, because of the junk on it, I don't usually bother with TV but I do intend to watch this program.
 

JLZ

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True JBowie but in the case on the Claremont Killer there were so many warning signs which IMO could have prevented the Claremont Murders happening, which he was under the radar but had assault charge against where it was brushed under the carpet he only got a rap on the wrist this was just a few years before the first killing. The lady has from the assault charge has released a book "Keep calm, It Only The Claremont Killer".
Unlike in William T case there was no warning signs, no clues, little DNA just like the Beamont Chidren who vanished years earlier, and today not solved. Even the Burnies case, Perth 1986 was solved IMO by remarkable events, the girl escaping then convincing the female police officer in what happened so to take action.
The when the Burnies being interviewed for a few hours, a Decitive did a bluff as there been missing women last few months in Perth, His comment " So David we know about the missing women." He was shocked, when David Burnie replied, " You found the bodies".
I compared this to the massive interviews by Rossin Force on Foster cares and other people, the recent Foster Mother trial have come up with very little information regarding William, this maybe causing them to go down rabbit holes. IMO.
I know this is William thread JBowie and everyone, but have you looked at the Documentary about the Claremont Killer, your thoughts. Tried to watch trial but was busy with family life etc I wondering did the question about the Riding School/Edward connection to it in the Doco was answered, kids at his school knew. I wondered if they spoke up .
WA Police made error it took time but answers finally came, maybe this is what Rossin they need is more time, take a breath, look with fresh eyes past files and finally answers and justice for William can be done.
With Claremont, bodies were found, so it was clear that a crime had been committed, and also what type of crime it was. The new investigators believed that the murderer had definitely committed sexual violence before. From there, they began a long process of comparing forensic traces found on the bodies with samples from other crimes. And that worked out for them. But with William, we don't know whether there was a crime--it's perhaps just possible he lost himself--or if so, what type of crime it was. (Concealing an accidental death and moving a body, or domestic violence, or abduction for family reasons, or for money, or murder for revenge or sex related.) And as far as I know the perpetrator left no identifying trace. Another comparison, the more recent disappearance of a little girl in Western Australia, it also wasn't clear, to the public at any rate, what type of crime had been committed. That was solved by taking advantage of the isolated location, the limited and scarcely travelled routes in and out. Does William's case have an analogous weak point that has not yet been identified and can be targeted? I do not like the method of pressuring individuals until they crack; ultimately torture produces false confessions, and there is also the risk of innocent suspects self-killing.
 

Detective Willy

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I find this verdict a farce quite frankly.

We know that FFC did lie to the crime commission when she said that she did not strike the child however she was found not to knowingly lie???

Therefore, Magistrate Miranda Moody found that FFC lied without knowing it???

Excuse me while I scratch my head and try to work this out.

It seems evident that she clearly lied to the crime commission "accidently".
 
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