Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #37

[CuriousCritter]

This doco series is quite interesting re: coroners inquests "Who Killed Belinda Peisley" Who Killed Belinda Peisley?


<modsnip: There is nothing to substantiate that statement>

Thanks for posting this, it was very interesting to watch. Will be a very sad affair if the 5 POI'S in WT'S case exercise their right not to speak because of self incrimination.

 

[CuriousCritter]

For anyone interested here are the findings of the NSW Coroners Court into the tragic death of 22mnth. old Braxton Slager who drowned in a backyard pool while in a Temp. foster care situation.
It shows how a coronial inquest into a child in foster care works.
http://www.coroners.justice.nsw.gov.au/Documents/Findings - Braxton Slager (Redacted Version).pdf

Thanks was an interesting read. I noticed the only names suppressed were those of the children. Why were the FP's names not suppressed? Is there different laws with the different types of care provided?

 

[Truthsleuth99]

The Tyrrell case will go to an inquest if it can’t be solved from a criminal perspective. But Det Ch Insp Jubelin said there are still strong lines of inquiry and people of interest that have the focus of the Strike Force.

Fingers crossed an arrest will happen soon. No need for an inquest.

 

[SouthAussie]

How seriously does the coroner take perjury in cases like this? In the Shelia and Katherine Lyon case in the States a couple of family members of the perp committed perjury and were convicted but given ridiculously lenient sentences i.e no jail time. I just hope it isn’t more of the same here if this is what happens.

The police took the perjury by Atkins in the Matthew Leveson case very seriously. They used the potential jail time for perjury as a bargaining tool.

I think Jubes has threatened the people withholding information in this case at least several times. "Don't wait for us to come after you". It is the police who would be prosecuting the perjury.
I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of that stick with Strike Force Rosann, after this many frustrating years of investigation in a case about a sweet little boy who is held in the hearts of so many Aussies.
And after this many frustrating years of probably knowing who is withholding that information ... and that person(s) refusing to come forward and speak the truth.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks was an interesting read. I noticed the only names suppressed were those of the children. Why were the FP's names not suppressed? Is there different laws with the different types of care provided?

I haven't read what you read, but if foster parents still have foster children in their care, their names would continue to be suppressed to protect those children.
If they do not have foster children in their care any more, their names are more likely to be published.
Suppression is not so much to protect the foster parents - it is to protect the foster children currently in their care.

 

[SouthAussie]

I believe you will find the Coroner is automatically involved in the background of a police investigation the moment police consider human intervention and possible death. It is the Coroner who instructs.

If you mean by 'automatically' that the police must file a report with the Coroner once they suspect that a missing person is deceased or they are unable to determine that the missing person is alive, then that would be correct. The Coroner must be officially informed of the matter first.


"The police officer in charge of a missing person investigation must report the matter to the Coroner once they are satisfied that no further enquiries can be made as to whether a missing person is alive or deceased. This should occur as soon as the investigator is of the belief that the missing person is now deceased.

Missing persons cases are reported to the Coroner by investigating police officers in the form of a 'P79B Police Report of Suspected Death', which outlines the factual background of the missing persons case."

Missing persons

 

[Karinna]

You're welcome and agree it was an interesting read. Very tragic situation all the way around IMO.
As to your question, i'm not really sure why the FP's in that case were named? Maybe because the child died while in their care at their home?
I know in WT's case it is somewhat different in that LE still have to find out exactly what happened to William.
And i know that the FP's in his case retain secrecy because of the sister of WT still in their care.
<modsnipped information from social media>

 

[Karinna]

Sorry CuriousCritter, my quote to your post wasn't inserted correctly.

 

[Warshawski]

I don't think she has the education as say - you & me?

Really 'I' - I find those comments offensive, and not only for Karlie.
IMO, She's a traumatised mother, who, after a long period of silence is now faced with the nation's TV cameras upon her as she struggles with her emotions. She just wants to know her boy is safe, and preferably to have him safe with her.
I doubt even I would've been rehearsed enough to think of calling for an inquest - <modsnipped unnecessary comment>

 

[Bohemian]

If you mean by 'automatically' that the police must file a report with the Coroner once they suspect that a missing person is deceased or they are unable to determine that the missing person is alive, then that would be correct. The Coroner must be officially informed of the matter first.


"The police officer in charge of a missing person investigation must report the matter to the Coroner once they are satisfied that no further enquiries can be made as to whether a missing person is alive or deceased. This should occur as soon as the investigator is of the belief that the missing person is now deceased.

Missing persons cases are reported to the Coroner by investigating police officers in the form of a 'P79B Police Report of Suspected Death', which outlines the factual background of the missing persons case."

Missing persons

Thank you for posting the link, SA.

 

[Warshawski]

Good afternoon, I have just joined after following this case for a long time much like all of you. Having just finished reading “where is Daniel” it is evident how much the general public don’t know. All the eyewitness accounts etc in the very early days do Daniel going missing. There must be so much that hasn’t been released to the general public.

Welcome TBL - I agree. And hence why I continue to have faith in Jube, his team and their strategy.
Also why I believe that those who have even so much as a 'question' over an activity or behaviour, let alone being 'in the know' are now very clearly setting themselves up for a long incarceration, with time quickly running out to make any retribution.

 

[Thebottomline]

Welcome TBL - I agree. And hence why I continue to have faith in Jube, his team and their strategy.
Also why I believe that those who have even so much as a 'question' over an activity or behaviour, let alone being 'in the know' are now very clearly setting themselves up for a long incarceration, with time quickly running out to make any retribution.

Thankyou

 

[SouthAussie]

MS can only be charged with perjury if it can be proved she lied under oath. I would imagine the alibi she provided for BS would be hard to dislodge as it is very easy to argue that just because no-one noticed him does not mean he was not there.

I personally think that is what he and she have always hoped for.
However, enough circumstantial evidence to say otherwise may stack up against them both. Let's see what an inquest reveals.

Different pieces of circumstantial evidence may be required, so that each corroborates the conclusions drawn from the others. Together, they may more strongly support one particular inference over another. An explanation involving circumstantial evidence becomes more likely once alternative explanations have been ruled out.
Circumstantial evidence - Wikipedia

In other words, if Spedding was not seen at the cafe AND he was not seen at the school assembly AND his van was not seen in Laurieton at that time AND his phone was not pinging in Laurieton at that time AND the friend says she cannot remember that day and has no photos of him at the assembly AND the relevant grandson's teacher does not remember him at the assembly AND Margaret is remembered as being at the assembly but not with Spedding AND the grandchild/ren do not remember him at the school assembly that day AND grandma was expecting him in Kendall that morning AND some CCTV caught his van travelling to/from the Kendall direction at the relevant time ... well, a certain inference can likely be drawn about the alibi.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just like in the Karen Ristevski case, where they have CCTV of a car the same make/model/colour as Karen's travelling enroute to the site where her remains were discarded, at the relevant time, and the police hunted down every other car of that type in the state and ensured that they were not at that place at that time - just to infer that the car seen on CCTV must have been Karen's car.

They also gained expert witness evaluation and testimony to say that a long haired brunette like Karen was not driving the vehicle, but instead a short grey haired individual was driving.
And they have evidence that her husband's phone pinged in that general area during that time period.

Circumstantial evidence stacks up.

 

[iailwa]

Really 'I' - I find those comments offensive, and not only for Karlie.
IMO, She's a traumatised mother, who, after a long period of silence is now faced with the nation's TV cameras upon her as she struggles with her emotions. She just wants to know her boy is safe, and preferably to have him safe with her.
I doubt even I would've been rehearsed enough to think of calling for an inquest - <modsnipped unnecessary comment>

This is not meant to be offensive. She has no studies in forensics science whatsoever, which is just fact. I have always stood up for Karlie, as it seems sometimes people forget that william is indeed her child. If I were her, i would be livid that my child went missing under state care. I'm not surprised you think she'd preferably have him safe with her, I think so too

 

[papertrail]

Re the Slager child's case no supression due to foster family having no further involvement with fostering and FACS.

It will be interesting to see if Coroner gets involved regarding the lead up to Williams journey into the fostering system and the way his bio family were treated by care Agency. Coroner did not go lightly on the Agency involved re this Slager child's case who had threatened the bio parents if you dont do as we want you to this will occur. How dare they!

This poor darling child was treated woefully by FACS and their Agency and it is blatantly obvious the property he had been placed in was totally and utterly inappropriate. RIP sweet little one.

What I am pleased to know is the same Coroner is now in charge of William's case. Every stone and grain of sand will be inspected for sure. The light will be shone very brightly into the darkest murkiest quagmire.

 

[Thebottomline]

This is not meant to be offensive. She has no studies in forensics science whatsoever, which is just fact. I have always stood up for Karlie, as it seems sometimes people forget that william is indeed her child. If I were her, i would be livid that my child went missing under state care. I'm not surprised you think she'd preferably have him safe with her, I think so too

I speak for myself here and prehaps others. You don’t need to have a uni degree or to have studied forensic science to understand an inquest/enquiry. If anything she is probably very clued up on the ins and outs of this. I’ve learnt so much just from reading these threads over the past years. I’m sure as a mother to missing William she too would have enough knowledge by now about how the system works. Formal education or not. JMO

 

[papertrail]

Just like in the Karen Ristevski case, where they have CCTV of a car the same make/model/colour as Karen's travelling enroute to the site where her remains were discarded, at the relevant time, and the police hunted down every other car of that type in the state and ensured that they were not at that place at that time - just to infer that the car seen on CCTV must have been Karen's car.

They also gained expert witness evaluation and testimony to say that a long haired brunette like Karen was not driving the vehicle, but instead a short grey haired individual was driving.
And they have evidence that her husband's phone pinged in that general area during that time period.

Circumstantial evidence stacks up.

Phone pings do not tell you in whose possession the phone was in at time of ping. Circ evidence can be weakened by argument.

 

[butterstick]

Re the Slager child's case no supression due to foster family having no further involvement with fostering and FACS.

It will be interesting to see if Coroner gets involved regarding the lead up to Williams journey into the fostering system and the way his bio family were treated by care Agency. Coroner did not go lightly on the Agency involved re this Slager child's case who had threatened the bio parents if you dont do as we want you to this will occur. How dare they!

This poor darling child was treated woefully by FACS and their Agency and it is blatantly obvious the property he had been placed in was totally and utterly inappropriate. RIP sweet little one.

What I am pleased to know is the same Coroner is now in charge of William's case. Every stone and grain of sand will be inspected for sure. The light will be shone very brightly into the darkest murkiest quagmire.

That's certainly worth investigating, but shining a spotlight on an overworked (and maybe dysfunctional) FACS is not the immediate issue at hand for some people.

I'd rather the batteries in that spotlight be used to scour the ground for footprints leaving and entering a particular house in Benaroon Drive.

 

[papertrail]

I speak for myself here and prehaps others. You don’t need to have a uni degree or to have studied forensic science to understand an inquest/enquiry. If anything she is probably very clued up on the ins and outs of this. I’ve learnt so much just from reading these threads over the past years. I’m sure as a mother to missing William she too would have enough knowledge by now about how the system works. Formal education or not. JMO

Very well said! just because someone doesn't possess degrees it doesn't preclude them from possessing high levels of intelligence!