Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #61

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SLouTh

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The first thing that shocked me this week was learning the FM had injuries to her hands that day.

:eek: That ...is incriminating Why was it a secret?

o_O
We have known about this hand injury for a few years .....

This article was published in 2019 (just an example)

In two statements made to police after William’s disappearance, the foster mother said on the morning in question she slipped and grazed her right hand while playing with William outside the Benaroon Drive house.

www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/william-tyrrells-birth-family-says-they-felt-under-suspicion-for-years/news-story/5153a7edd5222a1f8e16c5f23b7d7bad
 

katydid23

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Laidlaw at the inquest when the sister was giving evidence was shaking his head taking down notes. There was a poster upthread who said while the sister was giving testimony it was believed FM was in the background coaching her.
I find the shaking of his head so interesting! Not even a micro expression, it's like he couldn't hold in his contempt or incredulity for what he was hearing.


Maybe he was shaking his head about the part where the child said 'in my mind no one is trying to find my brother, so I will look for him..'

I totally believe that child meant those words she was saying, about wanting to grow up and become a detective to try and find her littler brother. It is exactly what an 11 yer old might think and say, in my opinion.
 

bearbear

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this is what ive been saying, his body was placed not buried, it would be traumatic burying a child under dirt, and much quicker than digging and getting dirty, also he wouldnt really need concealing if there was no link to the family member leaving him there, his body found would support the abduction theory
 

Gotta have Faith

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Just a thought - if I make some one get on a horse, a minor in my care for example, and they didn’t want to and they subsequently fall and become injured can I then be charged with assault?
IIRC there was a case in Aus a few years back, small girl, fell off a trail bike/motor bike, I think she died. I will try to find link.

Edit to add link

Child, 4, died after being forced to ride motorbike by mother, court told

If someone comes and say they fall over your hose or trip on tiles - anything - then they can sue you. We were talking about this the other day. A guy was sitting on a bar stool in the pub, drunk, fell off and sued the Hotel, Manager , owner and staff for negligence, he won. He believed they had a duty of care to keep him safe as drunk as he was, it was also staff responsibility to say to him no more drinks and not serve him but kept serving. Strange times. We are becoming a nanny country because some people can not be trusted to look after themselves.
 

JBowie

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No I mean a company can just keep data for as long as they want, it doesn’t need to be requested. If Vodafone wants to hang onto their data for ten years, the act allows that.

My reading of the Act is that telcos must retain such data of a minimum of two years. After that they can delete it and I guess they would because that's heck of a lot of data to have to manage and pay for without it being revenue earning for them.
 

Gotta have Faith

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IMO, this information is far too specific for NSWPOL just to be shaking the tree.

While they haven’t named the POI, we all know who they are talking about. If the public was getting it wrong, they would have released a statement by now denying the POI is who we all think.

NSW has just given a massive payout to a former POI for damage to his reputation. They wouldn’t be foolish enough to let it happen again. They will be getting solid legal advice on this one.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...y/news-story/a28c4a0fb12b8f24f52eea04ffada3c5
No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

A grave archaeologist is now in on it ? Wow some serious money being thrown at finding WT.
 

Random-me

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The car was sold to an unrelated person. No suggestion at all

The car was sold to an unrelated party. Let's not cast undue aspersions on a family who purchased a second hand car.
Both FCs were asked to not search and to stay at the FGM home. FF ignored their request and searched fire trails desperately.
The news reports said it was given to a granddaughter who has been travelling and stored it at the house in Gymea
 

nightrider17

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Police are working on the theory the three-year-old’s body was “placed” rather than buried in bush close to the Kendall home he vanished from, and that his remains should be near the surface of their dig.
I think "Trm Trm2" is onto something with the idea of the car's navigation - backing up that the person only had the opportunity time wise to "place" rather than bury the body. Or a witness saw a car only stationery for a short period of time in that area - only long enough to do the above. MOO
 

Carmen_Sandiego

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Missing William book - page 54


Facs told them to separate, and to immediately begin taking parenting classes and anger-management classes.

They agreed to separate but didn’t do the courses, then one night they were at the video shop in Ryde when they were spotted by a FACS worker, very obviously together.

Nan blames herself for what happened next.

‘My son told me, we’re going to lose William’, she said. ‘He was seven months old. They loved him. And I didn’t want FACS to take him, so I told them, go and hide. And I told them where to hide [ in a granny flat behind a relative’s house]. And I know William was safe because I used to go twice a week. The place they were in, they had [access to] a pool. They were teaching him to swim. But FACS was determined to get them’


William was listed as a missing person. An order for his retrieval was made in February 2012.

Officers from the Gladesville Police station set about trying to find him. The family was located on 12 march 2012, following a surveillance operation.

‘My son thinks he got followed,’ said Nan. ‘Police turned up just after he got home one day’.

Child retrievals are not pretty. Police will use force where necessary. William’s father ws forced to the ground and handcuffed, before being arrested. William, by then eight months old, was in a stroller at the time.

‘Can I give him a cuddle?’ his dad asked.

They said no, so he spoke to William from his position, face down in the dirt.
“Wiliam mate, I’m sorry,’ he said. ‘I’m sorry we have to separate at this time. I love you, mate. I love you.’
 

JudgeJudi

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No I mean a company can just keep data for as long as they want, it doesn’t need to be requested. If Vodafone wants to hang onto their data for ten years, the act allows that.

Agreed, but the fact is telcos don't hang onto it for very long. Once the agency get the requested records, they can hang onto it indefinitely.
 

vatzjr

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I'm relistening to the podcast, and the bias is making me ill at times.

Xanthé Mallett basically accepts that Chapman's recollection of seeing a woman driving a car with a Spider-man costumed kid in back can't be accepted conclusive. Yet, somehow FFC's memory of the two cars was solid evidence. How does that work?

AND WHERE IS THE FOSTER GRANDMOTHER IN ALL THIS? We've heard more from biological grandmother than her.

Do we know why the foster family had to get to Kendall by Thursday night instead of Friday morning? I forget.

<modsnip: Off topic>
 
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Tigerlily75

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Random-me

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Missing William book - page 54


Facs told them to separate, and to immediately begin taking parenting classes and anger-management classes.

They agreed to separate but didn’t do the courses, then one night they were at the video shop in Ryde when they were spotted by a FACS worker, very obviously together.

Nan blames herself for what happened next.

‘My son told me, we’re going to lose William’, she said. ‘He was seven months old. They loved him. And I didn’t want FACS to take him, so I told them, go and hide. And I told them where to hide [ in a granny flat behind a relative’s house]. And I know William was safe because I used to go twice a week. The place they were in, they had [access to] a pool. They were teaching him to swim. But FACS was determined to get them’


William was listed as a missing person. An order for his retrieval was made in February 2012.

Officers from the Gladesville Police station set about trying to find him. The family was located on 12 march 2012, following a surveillance operation.

‘My son thinks he got followed,’ said Nan. ‘Police turned up just after he got home one day’.

Child retrievals are not pretty. Police will use force where necessary. William’s father ws forced to the ground and handcuffed, before being arrested. William, by then eight months old, was in a stroller at the time.

‘Can I give him a cuddle?’ his dad asked.

They said no, so he spoke to William from his position, face down in the dirt.
“Wiliam mate, I’m sorry,’ he said. ‘I’m sorry we have to separate at this time. I love you, mate. I love you.’
I find that BGM paints a very rosy image of her son constantly and often to me it sounds like she's ignoring things she doesn't want to see. Like anyone, I don't believe everything they say.
 
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katydid23

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I have no beef with the aggressive interrogation technique. Jubelin said he put the foster parents through a similar process.

"What is unforgivable is the incompetence and unprofessionalism of the police involved in not actively trying to corroborate Spedding's alibis, and other evidence that was there for the grabbing if they could be bothered to follow thorough."

BTW regarding Moynihan, the cop who was interrogating Spedding and treated him with utter contempt:

A seasoned homicide detective could be sacked after an internal investigation found he had sex in his unmarked police car while he was on duty, took photos of his genitalia in the office and pretended to be at work when he wasn’t.

Over the course of Detective Sergeant Justin Moynihan’s career, he has played a leading role in some high profile investigations, including the case of missing toddler William Tyrrell.

But it appears his 22-year career could be over following allegations of inappropriate behaviour.
--
November 10, 2019 - 6:24AM
The Sunday Telegraph

"What is unforgivable is the incompetence and unprofessionalism of the police involved in not actively trying to corroborate Spedding's alibis, and other evidence that was there for the grabbing if they could be bothered to follow thorough."


OK, To be fair, I think they did try to corroborate the alibis. We followed here in real time----I remember clearly reading and hearing about the proof that BS and his wife were putting forth.

The wife had a receipt from the coffee shop across the road from the school, where they were going to see their grandson accept an award. BS said he met his wife there for coffee before they walked to the school award show.

The receipt was timestamped and dated and was for 2 coffees, paid for by wife's bank card. The problem was, it did not prove that she bought them for herself and her husband.

And LE interviewed the Employees, and they could not say for sure that BS was there that morning, although they did recognise him as being there before. And there was no cctv.

The same thing happened with the witnesses to his visit to the school awards. His grandsons said he was there, and there was another friend of theirs who claimed to see him that morning. And BS was able to describe what he saw in the award show, like the children's choir singing a certain song, etc.

But other witnesses said they didnt remember seeing him, including someone he said he saw there nearby. ...so LE was not accepting it all as 100% verified alibi. I do think they tried to corroborate but it is hard if there is no cctv and it is just a large crowd meandering, to find witnesses who can swear they saw someone.

IIRC, there was also a picture that was taken with BS and his grandson and it was on school grounds, but it was at the very end of the award show, and people concluded that BS could have gone to Benaroon and grabbed the child, and then rushed to the school as an alibi.

So I don't want to bash LE and say they didn't try to corroborate BS's story because it seems that they did. And BS came with a lot of baggage, and it made sense that he would need to be investigated. He had been in FGM's home right before the children arrived and had plans to return to the home that same morning. It made sense at the time, that maybe he had driven to the home, and saw the boy in the driveway and sped off with him.

When they did begin investigating him, they found out that he had previously lived with his brotherinlaw, who was in prison for rapiung a 10 yr old girl and killing her father. And they found records of historic accusations of child abuse of a sexual nature against 2 of his relatives, years earlier. So how could they ignore all that?
 

SleepyJoe

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I think if it was my child I would find it very hard to stay put and not try everything I can to find them. Especially being that close to bushland, after not being found around the home, my next thought would be they've wandered off into bushland

Yes, I agree. I think it would be understandable that, if he wasn't involved, he would be distressed enough to defy the police and go off searching himself. I, too, would find it very hard to sit put if my child was missing.
 

Awakening

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Police are working on the theory the three-year-old’s body was “placed” rather than buried in bush close to the Kendall home he vanished from, and that his remains should be near the surface of their dig.

. . .

The police source said very specific intelligence led them to a one-square-kilometre area of bush less than 900m from the Benaroon Dr home where the Tyrrell family was staying with the foster grandmother. --
November 21, 2021 - 6:00 AM The Sunday Telegraph


"very specific intelligence" ... That, if true, rules out police hunches.

This area is apparently remote. But is there a possibility there is CCTV in the area, that wasn't there 7 years ago?

It's always surprised me to read of murderers moving a body, sometimes multiple times. Or criminals returning again and again to the scene of the crime. It puzzles me that they do this and that it's not that uncommon.

CCTV, dash cam footage, phone pings, recordings are all "intelligence" and specific too. As opposed to the accepted unreliability of human witnesses.
 
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