Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #63

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JudgeJudi

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Hi PS, I didn't know there was any such thing as being verified. Thanks for pointing it out to me. And yes, I am a medical specialist with 3 decades + of experience in medicine and, due to my field, have a in-depth knowledge of physiological reflexes. You mentioned "reflex". A reflex is a specific word that indicates an automatic physiological response. There is no such thing that directs the eyes when one "roars".

Here you go SleepyJoe:

Verification Process for Professional or Insider Posters
 

JudgeJudi

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Jubez wasn't the first in charge of this case. The first lot focused on finding William and did not properly follow up with investigating ffam. Blame starts there. Look what LE did in WA to CS's family's house. Policing 101. Suspect family first!

And that's the way it should be. Start with the person/s closest and work your way out.
 

sniffsniffcough

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What puzzles me about the whole photo thing is that if what beimg said is correct, FF went to all the effort to update the time on the camera for a holiday, but then didn't bother to change it back once home. Which seems odd to me, if you where THST concerned about it being right for the holiday, wouldn't you want it back for when your at home too

I don't think the Bali holiday od purchase if the camera in Bali has anything to do with it. Northern male foster carer. More likely whoever at FACS or NSWPOL who downloaded the photos onto police computer network had made the error when they applied the manual correction and not taking into account daylight saving.
 

NYM2011

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First post but have been reading for a while this past week after seeing the case back in the spotlight and seeing a websleuths link on a friend's socials I took a dive in.
So, I'm wondering did the investigators have the fosters carers' home bugged for a while because of suspicions about William raised through the Inquiry? Maybe they heard an altercation with their other foster child and decided they would have to intervene, removed her, and then decided to start looking for physical evidence regarding little William back at Kendall.
 

SLouTh

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The Australian version...... Paraphrased ....

I had a little "LOL Moment" when "amateur sleuths" made it into The Australian! Well done!!!

  • William's FP's will enter a plea to assault charges against them on December 7.

  • The Fosters applied for, and were granted, a two-week adjournment in the case, in which they are charged with assaulting a child.

  • The adjournment was granted before a mid-size crowd comprising police, journalists, legal practitioners, foster care activists and amateur sleuths at the brown brick Hornsby courthouse on Sydney’s Pacific Highway.

  • News crews had camped out with satellite trucks, as public interest in the case soars.

  • The Fosters did not appear.

  • Prosecutor Senior Sergeant Amin Assaad represented the Crown.

  • The Department of Community Services and Justice, was also represented.

  • The media was also represented.

  • Multiple suppression orders in various courts now prevent the media from disclosing key details about the case.
William Tyrrell foster parents granted adjournment in assault case (theaustralian.com.au)
 

JudgeJudi

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@CleaverGreene.

Are you able to advise please if it is ok for a member of the public to attend either a criminal court case or coronial hearing and take notes of, or record (by use of a mobile phone or other device) testimony given by individuals? And is it then ok for those details to be then published online anywhere?

I recall reading something during a recent Trial where members of the public who attended were not permitted to do so. I always thought the media representatives where the only people that were able to take notes etc at the time persons were giving their testimony. Just want to clarify in my own mind thankyou.

Finally, do you consider if a Trial by judge alone is possible in NSW with regard to the William Tyrrell case if it gets to the prosecution stage?

I'll defer to CleaverGreene but while waiting for his response you might like to read this:

In the courtroom in New South Wales, the following rules of etiquette should be maintained:

Turn of all mobile and electronic devices.
  • Do not speak unless instructed by the judicial officer.
  • Do not eat, drink or smoke.
  • Do not record or publish any of the proceeding, including by posting details on social media.
www.gotocourt.com.au/criminal-law/nsw/court-etiquette/
 

vatzjr

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JWSleuth

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The Australian version...... Paraphrased ....

I had a little "LOL Moment" when "amateur sleuths" made it into The Australian! Well done!!!

  • William's FP's will enter a plea to assault charges against them on December 7.

  • The Fosters applied for, and were granted, a two-week adjournment in the case, in which they are charged with assaulting a child.

  • The adjournment was granted before a mid-size crowd comprising police, journalists, legal practitioners, foster care activists and amateur sleuths at the brown brick Hornsby courthouse on Sydney’s Pacific Highway.

  • News crews had camped out with satellite trucks, as public interest in the case soars.

  • The Fosters did not appear.

  • Prosecutor Senior Sergeant Amin Assaad represented the Crown.

  • The Department of Community Services and Justice, was also represented.

  • The media was also represented.

  • Multiple suppression orders in various courts now prevent the media from disclosing key details about the case.
William Tyrrell foster parents granted adjournment in assault case (theaustralian.com.au)
Lols! Ok amateur sleuths! Show yourself and give us the info ;)
 

Carmen_Sandiego

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The 5 photographs that were taken on the day that William's disappearance occurred were created, and the corrected times are as follows:
it is said all the photographs were taken on the same day 12/9/2014.


1st created ? corrected to 09:35:19
2nd created 07:37:38 corrected to 09:35:28
3rd created 07:37:38 corrected to 09:35:28
4th created 07:39:39 corrected t0 09:37:29
5th created 07:39:54 corrected to 09:37:44

I have seen no reference to the date as recorded on the digital camera and I in no way infer the photographs were not captured on the 12/9/2014.

Something that I have noted is the 4th created time vs the correct hour/minute times are the reverse order. 7.39 vs 9.37.

the above created and corrected times were taken directly from the copies released by the Coroner. I am happy to supply copies if needed.

The 5th photograph is the 'roaring' one.

It is said the digital camera was purchased in Bali and that is the reason for the 2 hour difference in the created and corrected times. There is a anomaly there as it is not exactly 2 hours difference, there is 1:58 difference.

The 1st photograph ever released of William, was the one that showed him as a chubby child with I describe as a spreading bruise on his left cheek and under his left eye - that was released to media on 12/9/2014. I don't know whose care William was in at the time that photograph was taken.

Late morning on 13/9/2014 Superintendant Kim Fehon (who was based in Port Macquarie) fronted the media holding an A4 piece of paper with a photocopy of the 5th 'roar' photograph. I am able to post a screen shot (if required) of Fehon but not a link to the initial media article.

IMO at that time, it was still considered William was a 'lost' child - wandering somewhere in the bushland nearby Benaroon Drive including on the 2nd day when the 'roar' photograph was released. I believe that FACS would have released that photograph to NSWPOL and that it is more likely that the other photographs were not downloaded from the foster carers' digital camera until a few months later.

Daylight saving commenced in NSW on 5/10/2014 and that would mean the clocks went forward one hour so 3 hours difference Bali/NSW. IMO the 5 photographs were then downloaded after 5/10/2014, and the date daylight saving concluded which was 5/4/2015, by either FACS or the NSWPOL homicide squad. Gary Jubelin was in charge of the Rosann taskforce after mid February 2015. The 60 minutes programme aired in April 2015 refer to previous post upthread that contains links to this programme and the 'roar' photograph was included.

A question I would like to pose is were the corrected times manually entered by someone in FACS or NSWPOL at the time the photographs were downloaded onto FACS/NSWPOL computer network/system.

The created vs corrected time anomaly was picked up by one of the legal counsels (according to a post on WS upthread) who then pointed out the anomaly to the biological father's legal representative. IMO there seems to be some sort of connection with preparing the legal brief handed up to the Coroner from NSWPOL that included the photographs with the anomaly. IMO from information I am sure is a correct memory recall, that Gary Jubelin had prepared the that Brief. He was dealing with the Coroner at the time the searches were done in 2018 at Benaroon and Cedar Loggers Lane.

ADDED: when the female foster carer gave her over the top descriptions of how and why she took the 5th 'roar' photograph, was that an attempt to take Michael Usher's mind (and the viewing publics minds) away from other detail that might have been captured in that particular photograph? Not inferring shadows either.

Post of the year, IMO.
 

Green beans

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Police have said they have one POI, media have said this is FM, which hasn’t been denied (or removed online or had media sued over :D) What police haven’t said, if there’s also a suspect.

I also just want to say that I really value all the thoughts everyone has shared here.
Geez I hope something solid is found soon.
 

SLouTh

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I'll defer to CleaverGreene but while waiting for his response you might like to read this:

In the courtroom in New South Wales, the following rules of etiquette should be maintained:

Turn of all mobile and electronic devices.
  • Do not speak unless instructed by the judicial officer.
  • Do not eat, drink or smoke.
  • Do not record or publish any of the proceeding, including by posting details on social media.
www.gotocourt.com.au/criminal-law/nsw/court-etiquette/
It is my understanding that persons here at WS, who were able to attend the Inquest, have only ever verified the published media articles on the case.

Also in my opinion, they have shown great restraint on the thread., as many of us, including myself, would love to know more..... but that information has been suppressed by the Coroner, and that ruling has been abided by our posters.

We are all very grateful for their contribution.

All IMO

Apologies @JudgeJudi ... I hope in no way have I offended you, and I love your legal contribution to the thread!
 

Carmen_Sandiego

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Seperate lawyers is this standard protocol ? Legal eagles?

Because they have both been charged in the same matter, they are required to have separate lawyers to prevent conflict of interest.
Additionally, they would be advised by their lawyers not to discuss the matter amongst themselves.
 
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Trmtrm2

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My husband and I bought our second home from family friends and it was no different to a sale with an agent except they did not have showings and they did not pay the hefty agent's fee. It just went through our solicitor and their solicitor sent ours the contract and vice versa just before settlement. It took as long as other houses we have bought through agents, although now there is a process of having a quicker settlement.
Did you and your friend sign anything like a hand written letter or a printed offer and acceptance paper work to agree on the sum of money that was being offered, basically did the friend present the purchase price being offered on pater that you then agreed with a signature before the lawyers drew up the contracts, how was the purchase price presented to you and how did you accept (normally that's all the realestate agent is there for them its the lawyer/settlement agent who come up with the more formal contracts after the purchase price has been offered and agreed too)
 

they'll get you

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Lols! Ok amateur sleuths! Show yourself and give us the info ;)


Amateur Sleuths: Helping Police to Solve Crimes


Websleuths is a website that appears to have attracted Australians who are interested in investigating crime. While most of the activity on the site comes from the United States, Australians rank as the fourth-biggest contributors.

Various stories about unsolved crimes are posted on the site, with users being invited to comment. To gain access to the site, users must first register, although there is no requirement that they use their real names.

Police and other authorities may also use these crime solving sites either overtly or secretly. In other words, they may make a public appeal for assistance or simply stay in the background, monitoring discussions, to see if something useful comes up.

Websleuths often works with the police, meeting their requests (for example, removal of any information that will prejudice an investigation), or providing information (such as users’ IP addresses) under subpoena.

Sometimes, the offenders themselves, or those falsely claiming to have committed crimes, might join the sites.
 

Cleaver Greene

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@CleaverGreene.

Are you able to advise please if it is ok for a member of the public to attend either a criminal court case or coronial hearing and take notes of, or record (by use of a mobile phone or other device) testimony given by individuals? And is it then ok for those details to be then published online anywhere?

I recall reading something during a recent Trial where members of the public who attended were not permitted to do so. I always thought the media representatives where the only people that were able to take notes etc at the time persons were giving their testimony. Just want to clarify in my own mind thankyou.

Finally, do you consider if a Trial by judge alone is possible in NSW with regard to the William Tyrrell case if it gets to the prosecution stage?
There is nothing preventing a person taking notes in an open courtroom. Sometimes Judges get cranky at members of the public taking notes, but there is no law against it.

If there are suppression orders then a person publishing their notes online, if they breach the suppression orders, commits an offence.

Policies on recording proceedings are up to the individual courthouses, but I don’t know of a single court that permits it.

Trial by judge alone is possible in NSW.
 

they'll get you

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Lols! Ok amateur sleuths! Show yourself and give us the info ;)


Amateur Sleuths: Helping Police to Solve Crimes


Websleuths is a website that appears to have attracted Australians who are interested in investigating crime. While most of the activity on the site comes from the United States, Australians rank as the fourth-biggest contributors.

Various stories about unsolved crimes are posted on the site, with users being invited to comment. To gain access to the site, users must first register, although there is no requirement that they use their real names.

Police and other authorities may also use these crime solving sites either overtly or secretly. In other words, they may make a public appeal for assistance or simply stay in the background, monitoring discussions, to see if something useful comes up.

Websleuths often works with the police, meeting their requests (for example, removal of any information that will prejudice an investigation), or providing information (such as users’ IP addresses) under subpoena.

Sometimes, the offenders themselves, or those falsely claiming to have committed crimes, might join the sites.
Lols! Ok amateur sleuths! Show yourself and give us the info ;)
 

Cleaver Greene

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Wonder why FF have seperate lawyers. Courts are soooo slow in Australia. To have to wait so long if there is a trial is beyond a joke!

Because they have different interests to protect. Generally, a lawyer can’t act for two co-accused. If the co-accused start blaming each other then the lawyer is conflicted out.
 
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