Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #63

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Memento Mori

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I'm not understanding. Are you speculating that the police manually entered the 9.37? If cameras on Bali time of 7.39 (ignoring the minutes for a moment) then adding 2 hours is correct? If the computer did it automatically when downloaded after daylight savings had began then it would add 3 hours and corrected time would be 10.37/10.39.

I'm so confused!
Be aware that quartc clocks don't perfect time - for example, the clock in my car ends up being five minutes slow between the start and end of daylight savings. Something like this can explain a discrepancy of a couple of minutes.
 

katydid23

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  • The allegations are not the most serious that the courts see by any stretch,” Magistrate Dene said.

But serious enough for Docs to remove the child from the FC’s care and for the FC’s to be charged with assault. We have no idea about the circumstances of the alleged assault of whether there has been psychological abuse. Or maybe it’s just one big misunderstanding and the child had a fall. The court case should reveal all.

Exactly. We really don't know yet.

I guess I am feeling kind of jaded because of the media drama, that seems over the top. LE allowing media cameras up in their fAces while they search for the sweet boy's remains?

All of the media leaks about every thread, every piece of cloth---even if they don't know if it is relevant or not?

It just feels wrong and kind of forced, in my opinion. I can't help but think this might be away to pressure the newest suspects---more than it is a truly valid abuse incident.

But I could be totally wrong and if so, I will hop off this uncomfortable fence...
 

Memento Mori

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I'm not understanding. Are you speculating that the police manually entered the 9.37? If cameras on Bali time of 7.39 (ignoring the minutes for a moment) then adding 2 hours is correct? If the computer did it automatically when downloaded after daylight savings had began then it would add 3 hours and corrected time would be 10.37/10.39.

I'm so confused!

Be aware that quartz clocks don't perfect time - for example, the clock in my car ends up being five minutes slow between the start and end of daylight savings. Something like this can explain a discrepancy of a couple of minutes.
 

SLouTh

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I’m not familiar with this type of process, does this mean William’ sister will remain in alternative care arrangements until this is all finalised at possibly this time next year?
It is my understanding that the answer is yes.... I don't know the FACs law for NSW, but in Qld if a child is removed by DOC's, it is until the investigation is complete.

JMO Based on experience that I have witnessed in my profession.
 

Tigerlily75

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The 5 photographs that were taken on the day that William's disappearance occurred were created, and the corrected times are as follows:
it is said all the photographs were taken on the same day 12/9/2014.


1st created ? corrected to 09:35:19
2nd created 07:37:38 corrected to 09:35:28
3rd created 07:37:38 corrected to 09:35:28
4th created 07:39:39 corrected t0 09:37:29
5th created 07:39:54 corrected to 09:37:44

I have seen no reference to the date as recorded on the digital camera and I in no way infer the photographs were not captured on the 12/9/2014.

Something that I have noted is the 4th created time vs the correct hour/minute times are the reverse order. 7.39 vs 9.37.

the above created and corrected times were taken directly from the copies released by the Coroner. I am happy to supply copies if needed.

The 5th photograph is the 'roaring' one.

It is said the digital camera was purchased in Bali and that is the reason for the 2 hour difference in the created and corrected times. There is a anomaly there as it is not exactly 2 hours difference, there is 1:58 difference.

The 1st photograph ever released of William, was the one that showed him as a chubby child with I describe as a spreading bruise on his left cheek and under his left eye - that was released to media on 12/9/2014. I don't know whose care William was in at the time that photograph was taken.

Late morning on 13/9/2014 Superintendant Kim Fehon (who was based in Port Macquarie) fronted the media holding an A4 piece of paper with a photocopy of the 5th 'roar' photograph. I am able to post a screen shot (if required) of Fehon but not a link to the initial media article.

IMO at that time, it was still considered William was a 'lost' child - wandering somewhere in the bushland nearby Benaroon Drive including on the 2nd day when the 'roar' photograph was released. I believe that FACS would have released that photograph to NSWPOL and that it is more likely that the other photographs were not downloaded from the foster carers' digital camera until a few months later.

Daylight saving commenced in NSW on 5/10/2014 and that would mean the clocks went forward one hour so 3 hours difference Bali/NSW. IMO the 5 photographs were then downloaded after 5/10/2014, and the date daylight saving concluded which was 5/4/2015, by either FACS or the NSWPOL homicide squad. Gary Jubelin was in charge of the Rosann taskforce after mid February 2015. The 60 minutes programme aired in April 2015 refer to previous post upthread that contains links to this programme and the 'roar' photograph was included.

A question I would like to pose is were the corrected times manually entered by someone in FACS or NSWPOL at the time the photographs were downloaded onto FACS/NSWPOL computer network/system.

The created vs corrected time anomaly was picked up by one of the legal counsels (according to a post on WS upthread) who then pointed out the anomaly to the biological father's legal representative. IMO there seems to be some sort of connection with preparing the legal brief handed up to the Coroner from NSWPOL that included the photographs with the anomaly. IMO from information I am sure is a correct memory recall, that Gary Jubelin had prepared the that Brief. He was dealing with the Coroner at the time the searches were done in 2018 at Benaroon and Cedar Loggers Lane.

ADDED: when the female foster carer gave her over the top descriptions of how and why she took the 5th 'roar' photograph, was that an attempt to take Michael Usher's mind (and the viewing publics minds) away from other detail that might have been captured in that particular photograph? Not inferring shadows either.

Oh wow, I missed this earlier, thanks for putting that together. I didn’t really understand before what was going on with the photographs. I’m glad the coroner has pushed for further investigation on this.
 

Waverider

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I don't understand how daylight savings would make the time of the photo 8.37?

When William went missing on the 12/9/2014 NSW was 2 hours ahead of Bali. When daylight savings started in October 2014 NSW was 3 hours ahead of Bali.

The camera recorded the 5th photo (the roar photo) at 7.39am.

There are 2 possible scenarios here. The camera was set to Bali time or the camera was on Australian time.

If it was 7.39am Bali time then the photo was created at 9.39am NSW time.

If it was in fact 7.39 NSW time then proof of life was at 7.39, creating a different timeline.

Where does 8.39 come into play?

If the 9.37 corrected time was done by computer or human because they were on NSW daylight saving time then the photo was taken 3 hours earlier at 6.37/6.39.
i think the OP must have meant 10.37am. Bali doesn’t have daylight savings time so they are either 2 or 3 hours behind Sydney time.
 

Cleaver Greene

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Is that the same for every state in Aus???


Also I know this is from "media" today:
“The orders are necessary to prevent any prejudice to the public administration of justice, but also it’s necessary to protect the safety of a person to avoid any undue distress or embarrassment to the parties involved,” she said.(The Judge)

Do you think this relates to the FP's or the just the child?? (probably both)

My question is why cant everyone that has to go to court be afforded the same privilege?
"to avoid any undue distress or embarrassment to the parties involved"

Or can a lawyer ask for suppression for any client??

William Tyrrell foster parents face court over assault charge relating to a different child | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

not all states have Judge alone trials.

Generally, suppression orders are there to protect victims. Sometimes they are for defendants (before they have pleaded guilty or been convicted) but that’s becoming quite rare.

different states have different laws re suppression.
 

Seabreeze1

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In thread #62 drsleuth asked:



Answer: here at 6:28

FM Seems so convincing! What strikes me is the way she says she thinks someone went "Clump and took him" Also the fact she states that it was almost straight away she felt he was abducted. Would you not instantly call your husband just to check he didn't have him?
 

nunaloon

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yes ,
Exactly. We really don't know yet.

I guess I am feeling kind of jaded because of the media drama, that seems over the top. LE allowing media cameras up in their fAces while they search for the sweet boy's remains?

All of the media leaks about every thread, every piece of cloth---even if they don't know if it is relevant or not?

It just feels wrong and kind of forced, in my opinion. I can't help but think this might be away to pressure the newest suspects---more than it is a truly valid abuse incident.

But I could be totally wrong and if so, I will hop off this uncomfortable fence...

yes not being able to access possibly vital information /evidence from LE ( rightly so as it an on going investigation ) leads me feeling very similarly.
 

JudgeJudi

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Turn of all mobile and electronic devices.

I've sat in the public gallery of some high profile trials where reporters all with laptops are madly typing away their notes of the proceedings. Some probably submit copy from right there in the courtroom.

I guess laptops are not considered electronic devices. o_O

The following applies to Local Courts:

Use of mobile phones or PDAs by journalists

Journalists are permitted to use mobile phones or personal digital assistants (PDAs) in court for electronic note taking, text messaging or emailing.

The mobile phone or PDA must be switched to silent and no verbal communication can be made. The court must not be disrupted in any way.

Mobile phones or PDAs can be used in court only by journalists who:
  • work for recognised media organisations
  • can provide appropriate professional identification
Closed court in sensitive proceedings

In some sensitive cases, media representatives may be excluded from court proceedings. This is known as a closed court. It is up to the judge or magistrate to decide whether to close the court.

The judge can also make an order preventing the media from telling anyone about all or any part of the evidence.

The media may not identify children involved in any court hearing. Children are defined as people under the age of 18 years old. In New South Wales the media may also not identify people who were children at the time an offence was committed. This law also applies to missing and deceased children.

courts.nsw.gov.au/courts-and-tribunals/media-contacts-and-information.html
 

Mrs G Norris

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Exactly. We really don't know yet.

I guess I am feeling kind of jaded because of the media drama, that seems over the top. LE allowing media cameras up in their fAces while they search for the sweet boy's remains?

All of the media leaks about every thread, every piece of cloth---even if they don't know if it is relevant or not?

It just feels wrong and kind of forced, in my opinion. I can't help but think this might be away to pressure the newest suspects---more than it is a truly valid abuse incident.

But I could be totally wrong and if so, I will hop off this uncomfortable fence...

I’m on the fence too and this is how I feel, is this a trumped up charge and do they even have real leads for all the searches in Kendall, or are they just thinking she’s a possible suspect so they’ve decided to ramp up the pressure to see if she’ll crack?

It’s about the 100th time they’ve tried this so it’s very hard to know what to think anymore, feels like the boy who cried wolf.
 

Carmen_Sandiego

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To the people saying that they doubt LE will find anything because all of the previous searches have not, please let me remind you that this new evidence, new search, new POI, and new charges are being done by a different team of investigators.

<modsnip>

Detective chief inspector David Laidlaw

Since he took over in January 2019, Laidlaw has steered the investigation through inquest hearings and the controversies left in the wake of his predecessor.

It appeared to be Jubelin, who was stood down for illegally recording a former suspect and has since left the police force, that NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller referenced when he described the case as an 'inherited mess'.

And it was clearly Laidlaw that Fuller was referring to when he said, 'I'm confident that the team who has the investigation at the moment can solve it'.

Under the guidance of Laidlaw, a former investigations coordinator for the NSW Homicide Squad, outwardly it had appeared the Tyrrell probe was treading water.

Behind the scenes, nothing could be further than the truth.


Recognised in the 2017 Australia Day Honours with the Australian Police Medal, DCI Laidlaw has been a police officer since 1977.

He became a detective in 1988, and in 1994 was promoted to the rank of detective sergeant.

He worked in the Major Crime Squad and in 2000 he was promoted to detective inspector at the Drug and Organised Crime Strike Force Program.


Since then he has served at the Crime Agencies Drug Trafficking Squad and the State Crime Command Homicide Squad.

He has dedicated the majority of his 40 years of policing to criminal investigation. At the Drug Trafficking Squad, Laidlaw led Strike Force Buffier which investigated an Italian organised crime cannabis syndicate and seized drugs worth up to $200m.

In 2007, he led the Coronial Investigation Team which developed closer working relationships between police and the NSW State Coroner’s Office.

He is a member of the SIDS Advisory Committee with the State Coroner’s Office and NSW Health, advising on children who die from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.

Source: William Tyrrell investigation led by detective David Laidlaw in Kendall | Daily Mail Online
 
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dragon52

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I’m on the fence too and this is how I feel, is this a trumped up charge and do they even have real leads for all the searches in Kendall, or are they just thinking she’s a possible suspect so they’ve decided to ramp up the pressure to see if she’ll crack?

It’s about the 100th time they’ve tried this so it’s very hard to know what to think anymore, feels like the boy who cried wolf.
It’s a pretty expensive strategy if this search is simply to ramp up the pressure to see if FFC will crack IMO. However, with all the media around reporting on the search in such detail I sometimes wonder. I keep reminding myself that this search was ordered by the Coroner on new information.
 

mmindymoo

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For what it's worth IMO I don't thing the following is of concern
. FP stopped 3 times other way to FGM. I make the same journey w kids to my mothers and it's annoying, but not suspicious
. FP slept w the kids in separate rooms, Whether bio or not, families are so familiar with eachother that this is not sinister IMO
. FD was cranky in the morning. I think everyy working parent know how difficult it is to focus on work with noisy kids in the background
. The time on the camera. If they can show it was purchased in Bali, the anomaly makes sense.
. The inversion of the time on pics.. even though the digits are reversed the difference between the time and correct time is the same in each image. IMO it was corrected by LE
. The supposed awkward pose FM must have been in to take pictures 5. The amount of strange pics I have taken of my kids, I don't think this is an issue.
. the bruised face black eye of WT. kid's get hurt all the time. And WT was a very hyper child.
. The confusion between Laurieton and Lakewood. These 2 locations are very close and Lakewood is kind of the nickname for the Woolies for locals. Driving from Kendall to Lakewood you follow the signs to Laurieton.

What I do find suspicious IMHO.
. The omission of driving during the 000 call.
. The memory of 2 cars (IMO FM filled in her memory gap with 'evidence that fit her mindset)
. The lack of concern re the high balcony. I would be on tender hooks visiting a place posing such as risk
. The inclusion of the description of WT 'deliberately crashing his bike into the garden'. This IMO feels like an embellishment (maybe anticipating potential evidence)
. The angry response on the WT official SM pages to new evidence.
. The mention of the description of her head out the window further passing truck. Again IMO this seems to be an anticipatory explanation that seems unnecessary IMO.
 

dragon52

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Calsterr

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I've bought some questionable things over the years in Bali but I have never bought a camera....a portable speaker yes, but that stopped working after a few days. Does anyone think that's an odd purchase? I mean, it's Bali....not Singas.
 
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