Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #79

The fact that a $1 million reward has sat unclaimed since September 2016 seems to suggest that there isn't anyone who knows, or maybe if there is then they are not inclined -- for whatever reason -- to come forward while the perp is still alive.

And maybe anyone else who might know or grow to suspect a perp is now dead. For example, Ray Porter is deceased, Heather Savage is deceased.
Ray seems to have done his best to provide a deathbed confession, and doesn't appear to have wanted a reward (except maybe a place at the pearly gates). And maybe he also didn't know where William now was, in order to claim any reward.
And Heather apparently didn't speak of her husband in her police statement, then she died.

imo
 
Going back to the podcast, something that stood out to me in the first episode of Witness: William Tyrrell was the discussion around Cleo Smith by two detectives that interviewed Michelle White.
The police suggested to Michelle White that nobody was getting into the Cleo’s family tent without being heard, implying family involvement.

Taken from the transcript Ep. 1

21:22
Speaker 2 (Dan Box)
When you were being interviewed by them, and I think you were talking to them for five hours or thereabouts. Did they give you a sense of what they were thinking William's foster mother may have done?

21:40
Speaker 1 (Michelle White)
No, they didn't, just that they implied that she had something to do with William's disappearance and that all would be forthcoming in a few days. Interestingly, at the time, Cleo was missing in Western Australia, and during that interview they said to me, surely you know, you don't think that somebody else has come into the tent. You can't tell me that you wouldn't hear the zipper.

23:11
Speaker 1 (Michelle White)
They asked me, what I thought had happened to Cleo, and I said that I didn't know. They said words to the effect of, surely you'd hear somebody undoing a zipper if your child was sleeping next to you, and I took it to mean that, yeah, surely, if there's no other answers that are apparent, then it's the parent, and the implication being similar in the situation of William missing, when there's no other clear answer, it must be her.

The opinion of the two detectives didn’t age well.
Mick Fuller described the current strike force as one of the “best teams we’ve seen”. If their views on Cleo’s disappearance were genuine, then that is worrying IMO.
 
Going back to the podcast, something that stood out to me in the first episode of Witness: William Tyrrell was the discussion around Cleo Smith by two detectives that interviewed Michelle White.
The police suggested to Michelle White that nobody was getting into the Cleo’s family tent without being heard, implying family involvement.

Taken from the transcript Ep. 1

21:22
Speaker 2 (Dan Box)
When you were being interviewed by them, and I think you were talking to them for five hours or thereabouts. Did they give you a sense of what they were thinking William's foster mother may have done?

21:40
Speaker 1 (Michelle White)
No, they didn't, just that they implied that she had something to do with William's disappearance and that all would be forthcoming in a few days. Interestingly, at the time, Cleo was missing in Western Australia, and during that interview they said to me, surely you know, you don't think that somebody else has come into the tent. You can't tell me that you wouldn't hear the zipper.

23:11
Speaker 1 (Michelle White)
They asked me, what I thought had happened to Cleo, and I said that I didn't know. They said words to the effect of, surely you'd hear somebody undoing a zipper if your child was sleeping next to you, and I took it to mean that, yeah, surely, if there's no other answers that are apparent, then it's the parent, and the implication being similar in the situation of William missing, when there's no other clear answer, it must be her.

The opinion of the two detectives didn’t age well.
Mick Fuller described the current strike force as one of the “best teams we’ve seen”. If their views on Cleo’s disappearance were genuine, then that is worrying IMO.

So, they interviewed Michelle in October 2021 while Cleo was missing. Must have been after 16th October.
Then Cleo was found - having been quietly abducted by a stranger - on 3rd November. Link
Then they went ahead with the Big Dig on 15th November 2021. Link

I wonder if they were a bit twitchy about their reasons for the Big Dig once they knew that their thinking about Cleo was so wrong.

imo
 
The fact that a $1 million reward has sat unclaimed since September 2016 seems to suggest that there isn't anyone who knows, or maybe if there is then they are not inclined -- for whatever reason -- to come forward while the perp is still alive.

At the time, the then Commissioner of Police said:

“This is a unique reward, it does not require the charge and conviction of any person(s), it relates to the recovery of William Tyrrell.

“By offering a reward at this point in the investigation, we are appealing directly to those who know something but have not previously been inclined to assist.

“If you know something, there are now a million reasons to come forward.
Police very rarely pay out rewards here in Australia, even in cases where direct testimony led to a suspect arrest and conviction.
 
Dan Box appearing as a guest on the Australian True Crime podcast. He chats with
Xanthe Mallett.
I enjoyed this episode. I agree that the FM is being treated like BS.

If the FM turns out to be guilty I will be completely shocked.
 
Maybe the way to balance things out is by taking the focus off the FM for more than a minute and try looking at the other people who have circumstantial evidence against them, and other occurrences that are not related to her. Then maybe it can be seen that there are too many other possibilities.

I feel that when only one person is looked at, over and over (for more than 4 years, in the case of the NSWPOL investigation), other things can be missed.

All of this intricate examination by the police (or anyone else) hasn't advanced the case.
Agree. And I believe there are questions regarding all of the POIs named at one time or another, that have never been answered fully or satisfactorily.
And that could be that one of them just knows more than they are saying as opposed to being the so-called guilty party.
And the fact that it is possible that the perpetrator still could still be a complete stranger who just happened to be nosing around those streets at that time.
Too long with no answers.
 
Exploring the unseen stranger theory at the time/place WT reportedly disappeared?

* No one other than the FM says that she saw strange cars on the street that morning.
* The FF left just after 9am and saw no one strangers and didn't notice any strange cars
*The Crabbs returned around 9.30? and saw no cars or strangers.
*PS was on his deck having breakfast and saw no cars nor strangers
* JM left about 9 am and saw no strangers nor cars parked opposite her place.
* Not sure what time HS left, but if strange cars and strangers had been in her statement we would have heard about it.
* RD returns about 10.15a.m.?
*AMS returns say 10.15 am and saw no strange cars parked near the front of her property nor reports stranger.
* LH returns at 10.30 and does not report the sighting of any strange cars nor strangers, she sees the neighbour across the road doing his lawn.
* As far as we know, that neighbour did not report any strange cars or strangers.

So there is a good chance that the FM is mistaken about cars with such huge lack of corroboration by locals.
That means that a stranger to the street would have had to remove WT by foot and either hide him close by or have had a concealed vehicle waiting away from Benaroon drive and got him to that vehicle unseen and then drove away from where? Was he stolen from the direction of the Miller's yard and taken across to Ellendale? Did a stranger come from the cemetery or Albert Rd. to a car waiting there, unseen across backyards? Was a vehicle lying in wait out of sight on the bush track? Did any of those people who had bush camps through the state forest report a vehicle or stranger? The chances of WT being left unattended for a few minutes and in that time WT being taken are almost impossible.

If we compare Clio's case, the perp had hours to make a plan, to observe the family, snatch her and then get away from an isolated area in the dark with as few people as possible to witness him. Which strangers that have been named POI's in this case had the time to carry out this plan say from 9pm when the family arrived? Where were they concealed if they were a stranger to the street and where were they observing WT from? Where did they snatch him from and how did they get him out of the street?

So far, from what I have observed from the inquest, WT did not wander off into the bush and died by misadventure. The strangers to the street POI's don't seem to have any evidence to connect them by time or place to Benaroon drive that morning. I'd like to have the theories layed out for the following people, anything circumstantial as that is all we have with any of the POI's in this case:

FA
GO
PB
Ro.D
TJ
 
No

Cleo Smith (4yo) was taken by a lone abductor and held for days. William could have too.

And Cleo was taken by a thief. Someone who went to that remote campsite to "steal a handbag". Link

It could be that the same thing happened to William. A creeping thief in the neighbourhood saw a little boy he wanted, and opportunistically took him.

I remember when Kylie Blackwood was left dying on her couch, having been stabbed by the thief (Scott Murdoch), Murdoch had parked his car on another street as he cased Kylie's neighbourhood then entered Kylie's home.

imo
 
And Cleo was taken by a thief. Someone who went to that remote campsite to "steal a handbag". Link

It could be that the same thing happened to William. A creeping thief in the neighbourhood saw a little boy he wanted, and opportunistically took him.

I remember when Kylie Blackwood was left dying on her couch, having been stabbed by the thief (Scott Murdoch), Murdoch had parked his car on another street as he cased Kylie's neighbourhood then entered Kylie's home.

imo
Most burglars won't randomly choose a home to burglarize. At the very least, even the most inexperienced burglar will watch several homes for several hours before they choose the right home to break into.
Cleo Smiths abductor waited til it was dark and campers were most likely asleep before entering the campsite and breaking into a tent. As high on drugs as he was, he knew the risks and waited for the right moment. If there was a “creeping thief” scoping out the street he/she would have heard kids playing, which means people are home, would have seen/possibly heard residents on their patios and balconies, would have seen people mowing their lawns and cars coming and going and would have figured out the risks fairly quickly. even the risk of abducting a child in that situation seems absurd. Far too absurd for me to even consider.
 
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I have now listened to the full hour. For those of us who have followed all of the Witness podcast episodes, we know a lot of what was said.


Dan: "We never set out to look for William, partly because better people than us have tried"

Dan: "The thing that I struggle to get past is ... William's disappearance is a tragedy. But the police investigation itself has caused tragic consequences for so many people. People whose lives will never be the same again."

Dan has seen the foster care records. There is nothing in them that points to any abuse. Ben Atwood had documented everything. One incident in isolation (black eye from falling against table, looked at by a hospital immediately), no pattern of injuries.

Xanthe says that the police creating and using the court of public opinion is fundamentally wrong. Why? Because this could happen to any one of us.

Any one of us could be involved in a tragedy, have the police look at us and put us squarely in the court of public opinion - with no evidence and no witnesses - and our whole lives would be destroyed.

"Noble cause corruption" is what Mick Fuller called it.

imo
If anyone’s to blame for opening the door to the “court of public opinion” it’s the FP. The courts granted them anonymity. They wanted their identities protected for the safety and well being of Ws sister but then decide to splash their blurred faced all over national tv. It’s counterintuitive really. Audiences watching their 60min interview questioned the. Sincerity in their message because how do you relate to someone who’s face is blurred out and all can see are lips moving. How do you connect to that? You don’t? And that’s really where it all started to go downhill. If they really wanted the public to believe they had nothing to do with Ws disappearance, they should have kept quiet, sat in the background and let the police do their job, the coroners court do their job, insight communications do their job and that’s that.
Everyone has an agenda. The media, the police, social media platforms, even the courts so all I’m saying is that if anyone is responsible for opening that door when it didn’t need to opened, it’s the fp.
 
If anyone’s to blame for opening the door to the “court of public opinion” it’s the FP. The courts granted them anonymity. They wanted their identities protected for the safety and well being of Ws sister but then decide to splash their blurred faced all over national tv. It’s counterintuitive really. Audiences watching their 60min interview questioned the. Sincerity in their message because how do you relate to someone who’s face is blurred out and all can see are lips moving. How do you connect to that? You don’t? And that’s really where it all started to go downhill. If they really wanted the public to believe they had nothing to do with Ws disappearance, they should have kept quiet, sat in the background and let the police do their job, the coroners court do their job, insight communications do their job and that’s that.
Everyone has an agenda. The media, the police, social media platforms, even the courts so all I’m saying is that if anyone is responsible for opening that door when it didn’t need to opened, it’s the fp.
I could just imagine some of the public outcry if the Foster Parents never spoke out at all.

There would be screaming from the rafters that they don't care / what are they hiding / what aren't they out searching, whey are they not doing appeals etc etc etc

No matter what they did or didn't do, some people, while sitting in their perfect world , would still judge them, really they can't win.

At the end of the day , there is no rule book for this situation.

The old saying , before you judge someone , walk a mile in their shoes ( certainly not something I envy at all for the Foster parents)

JMO
 
I could just imagine some of the public outcry if the Foster Parents never spoke out at all.

There would be screaming from the rafters that they don't care / what are they hiding / what aren't they out searching, whey are they not doing appeals etc etc etc

No matter what they did or didn't do, some people, while sitting in their perfect world , would still judge them, really they can't win.

At the end of the day , there is no rule book for this situation.

The old saying , before you judge someone , walk a mile in their shoes ( certainly not something I envy at all for the Foster parents)

JMO
That’s pretty much all l see them say. “Why not show your faces, you’re guilty!”. I have never seen anyone say they should just sit back and be quiet. What parent is going to do nothing to help find their child? The only case l can think of where the mother did one statement (well performance) and then said nothing else was Keisha Abrahams and we know how that ended!
 
If little W had disappeared in the surrounding of their home in Sydney, several questions wouldn't have been asked and maybe a certain type of persons would not have been associated so quick. In Kendall, on the other hand .... MOO
 
That’s pretty much all l see them say. “Why not show your faces, you’re guilty!”. I have never seen anyone say they should just sit back and be quiet. What parent is going to do nothing to help find their child? The only case l can think of where the mother did one statement (well performance) and then said nothing else was Keisha Abrahams and we know how that ended!
I never said or even suggested that having their faces blurred out was a sign of guilt. My point is that it made it difficult for people watching it to connect to them and their message. I know for me personally when watching the biological mother’s interview and seeing her face and reading and feeling her emotions the connection was instant. The reason the fp got Insight Communications on board was to represent them and most importantly W and to be their voice so no I don’t think they needed to do any blurred out interviews that seem targeted at the “haters” for hating instead of sincerity and gratitude to all those who love W and are fighting in our own ways to bring him home. Doesn’t matter what side of the fence you’re on, at the end of the day we all want the same thing, to bring W home
 
I could just imagine some of the public outcry if the Foster Parents never spoke out at all.

There would be screaming from the rafters that they don't care / what are they hiding / what aren't they out searching, whey are they not doing appeals etc etc etc

No matter what they did or didn't do, some people, while sitting in their perfect world , would still judge them, really they can't win.

At the end of the day , there is no rule book for this situation.

The old saying , before you judge someone , walk a mile in their shoes ( certainly not something I envy at all for the Foster parents)

JMO
I think most people by that stage were aware of the fp involvement in the “Where’s William” compaign and all the work they were doing behind the scenes to find W and bring him home.
I respect what you’re saying DrSleuth. My opinion is my opinion, not judgement. My hope is that accountability prevails and paves the way for change across the spectrum so that no parent biological or otherwise has to walk a mile in Ws families shoes. In this mess of so many wrongs, Ws message demands nothing less than a whole lot of rights.
 
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Most burglars won't randomly choose a home to burglarize. At the very least, even the most inexperienced burglar will watch several homes for several hours before they choose the right home to break into.

We all know that the people next door were away. And we know that a person can park near the cemetery or on Albert Street and cut through to Benaroon Drive - with a high chance of not being seen.
The street didn't have to be cased that day, there are other days of the week. A person could have been watching from the empty property next door.

Absurd is not a word I would use to explore a possible option.
 
I never said or even suggested that having their faces blurred out was a sign of guilt. My point is that it made it difficult for people watching it to connect to them and their message. I know for me personally when watching the biological mother’s interview and seeing her face and reading and feeling her emotions the connection was instant. The reason the fp got Insight Communications on board was to represent them and most importantly W and to be their voice so no I don’t think they needed to do any blurred out interviews that seem targeted at the “haters” for hating instead of sincerity and gratitude to all those who love W and are fighting in our own ways to bring him home. Doesn’t matter what side of the fence you’re on, at the end of the day we all want the same thing, to bring W home
I was just talking generally not saying you said that. What do you mean by “those who love W and are fighting in our own ways to bring him home”. You’re referring to yourself? How are you and others fighting to bring him home?
 
I could just imagine some of the public outcry if the Foster Parents never spoke out at all.

There would be screaming from the rafters that they don't care / what are they hiding / what aren't they out searching, whey are they not doing appeals etc etc etc

No matter what they did or didn't do, some people, while sitting in their perfect world , would still judge them, really they can't win.

At the end of the day , there is no rule book for this situation.

The old saying , before you judge someone , walk a mile in their shoes ( certainly not something I envy at all for the Foster parents)

JMO
Hi Dr, I think there’s merit in the comments from both you & Chrissy74.

Yes it’s a case of doomed if you do and doomed if you don’t, and I doubt anyone wants to be in the shoes of any of those close to little William ( nor any of the other people who are still waiting to hear what happened to their missing loved ones)

However it could have been handled much more realistically imo.

Interestingly Daniel Morcombe’s parents met no similar derision, and despite being absolutely grief-stricken, they were determined to find their boy.

Remember, it was FACS responsible for the blurred faces of William’s FP initially ...
And IMO there needs to be an enquiry into the Power of FACS, and its complete operation.
I believe the fact that the public were kept in the dark about so much to do with William & his FP was a huge hindrance to the investigation. FACS should not hold the power to hinder a police investigation.

I think the FP should have spoken instead of their friend-spokesperson in the very early stages. .. . the day after William went missing imo - and should’ve given as much information as they could have what happened that morning.

60 mins interview was not necessary imo - it provided nothing of value toward finding William & did no good for FP, despite their efforts to present devastation at the loss of William.

JMO
 
In one of his episodes, I'd like Dan to cover the hiring of the PR company and FACS and NSW police role in permitting that engagement and allowing the advocacy of foster parents for a missing child (who went missing whilst in their care). I had heard it covered slightly on the Lia Harris podcast but it didn't really cover the machinations of that arrangement.

I haven't kept up to date with Dan's podcast recently however I listened to the podcast with GJ about "pulling the trigger" on BS. Although BS case was deemed by the judge to be deemed one of the worst cases of malicious prosecution by NSW police, GJ was staunch in his belief that it was one of the best pieces of policing he had done of his career. He justified his position being that a 3 year old child's life was in the balance. That is the 2nd time in this case that GJ has been responsible for illegal behaviour and feels justified. I wish Dan had drilled down further and asked more questions such as "Why is it OK for you to behave illegally and potentially jeopardise an investigation, but not the current Taskforce who are probably full of their own convictions?"

I am not disputing that the pursuit of the FM may have been baseless of concrete evidence, although much more circumstantial evidence than any of the other POI's presented so far..... but to hear GJ's mad pursuit, criticism of the current team and the investigation through his network platforms just seems like the height of hypocrisy and completely self serving. IMO
 

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