Author Wolf suggests ISIS beheadings are faked - conspiracy?

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by wfgodot, Oct 6, 2014.

  1. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Daily Mail:

    'Where are they getting all these folks from?' Naomi Wolf condemned
    for suggesting ISIS hostages are ACTORS and be-headings aren't real


    • Writer posted a number of Facebook messages questioning footage
    • Asked if there was any record of the hostages being abducted initially
    • Claimed it would need at least five people to 'stage an event like this'
    • Also suggested deployment of troops in Africa to fight Ebola a ploy


    more at link above
     
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  3. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Naomi Wolf slammed for 'unhinged conspiracy theories' (Sydney Morning Herald)

     
  4. AlwaysShocked

    AlwaysShocked Active Member

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    When the first video came out, I had a friend ask me if I thought the video might have been faked. My answer was that I had not seen the video and had no plans to view it. And I haven't watched any of them.

    Does anyone else here who may have already seen them think they were fake?
     
  5. STANDREID

    STANDREID A slacker when slacker wasn't cool

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    I'm always interested in a good conspiracy theory but why would anyone (except perhaps a sailor who's been deployed on a nuclear submarine for 12 months) care about Wolf's vagina?
     
  6. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    I have to admit, the thought they might be faked -- and for the reasons given -- did cross my mind. Didn't watch 'em, regardless.
     
  7. sherbetjello

    sherbetjello Where is Kyron?

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    Sounds like someone is testing the waters for a new book!
     
  8. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Conspiracy theories seem....well, they just seem so tawdry. Once upon a time they were almost the exclusive province of the far right. Then (drumroll) JFK rolled through Dealey. The rest of the '60s transpired. And perspectives changed.

    Now I feel perfectly at ease arguing, say, 400-year-old conspiracies (i.e., that that w*nker W. Shakespeare had nothing to do with penning the plays and poems we attribute to him).

    At ease, but a bit sheepish. (Epitaph material, that.)
     
  9. mom2six

    mom2six New Member

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    My husband has a degree in digital media. He heard the rumor, and watched one of the films and agrees it is quite likely that they are faked. They do not actually show the process of beheading. I listened to the audio of a portion of one of the videos, but have not viewed the footage, when the victim was reading a statement prepared for him. His voice exhibited no distress whatsoever. He was very flat as if he was just reading a printed page with no emotional response to the contents at all. I don't have any idea why they would be faked, but the whole thing is really hinky.
     
  10. Nova

    Nova Active Member

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    I haven't seen them all, but the 2 or 3 I have seen looked suspicious to me. I didn't understand why anyone would choose such a small knife for the rather arduous task of severing the spinal cord and column and removing the head. I also wondered why the victims were so calm while their doom was pronounced.

    On the other hand: (a) perhaps more than one tool was used; (b) perhaps the knife was bigger than it appeared on camera; (c) perhaps the victims had endured "fake" executions in the past and didn't realize this one was real; and (d) I am no expert on butchering anyone or thing.

    All that being said, Ms. Wolff's career has been based not on exploring her own vagina, but on the thesis that governments and big corporations inflate crises in order to keep people scared and complacent. Based on the videos I've seen, one might conclude they are fake WITHOUT also believing there is a huge conspiracy behind them.

    ***

    One other possibility, since the videos I saw ended with a still shot of the severed head. Perhaps the captives aren't beheaded during the released video, but at a later time with more appropriate tools. Or the severed heads could be photoshopped.
     
  11. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Yup. I hear that one too. Polls showed a tight race with decided edge toward withdrawal from UK.

    Then, just a bit later -- election blowout went other way.

    Hink-a-doody.
    ---

    p.s. and oh, btw, if you like Wolf, or at least thought-provoking material of this sort, try her Guardian essay from 2007:

    Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

    • From Hitler to Pinochet and beyond, history shows there are certain steps that any would-be dictator must take to destroy constitutional freedoms. And, argues Naomi Wolf, George Bush and his administration seem to be taking them all
     
  12. badhorsie

    badhorsie Mouth operational, brain elsewhere...

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    Who "cares" about Wolf's lady parts?

    (*hangs head in shame* Never thought I would ever write those words in public)
     
  13. badhorsie

    badhorsie Mouth operational, brain elsewhere...

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    I have deliberately never watched, even a part, of any of the videos. I feel guilty about it really as these men had to go through it. That sort of viewing, however, would disturb me forever. But I hate it when it happens, with increasing regularity it seems. It is always the same sort of picture but I have never read about any conspiracy. Ought to get reading really but even reading about it seems disrespectful to the victims and their loved ones.

    Conspiracy theories abound in the Lee Rigby case but there was a lot of weirdness about the footage...
    I dunno, just rambling
     
  14. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Just almost did a spit-take whilst swilling this Diet Pepsi, lol.

    Men who emulated NW in writing about their bits might be accused of writing a short story.
     
  15. Elainera

    Elainera Well-Known Member

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    I wish they were faked, I really do.

    But I don't think so.
     
  16. cuffem

    cuffem Active Member

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    I have wondered how they keep these men calm and obedient. It would be human nature and self preservation to try and run away.
    I have an idea that they may force these men to make these videos daily or on a regular basis so they do not know when it will actually happen.
     
  17. Elainera

    Elainera Well-Known Member

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    Or they threaten to harm their family?
     
  18. SwampMama

    SwampMama Insomniac Extraordinaire

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    It is not unkown for them to be drugged. Not that ISIS would want to dull any pain that the victim felt but that the killers need for everything in the video to show that they are in control, the that will brutally kill and the victim will not even be able to fight back. I also believe they are hogtied (arms bound together, then legs bound together, then the arms and the legs are tied together behind the back). There isn't much fighting back they can do.

    I believe they are frequently dragged out into practice sessions or mock executions. Over and over. It could be that if they show any emotion during the "practice" that the killers do not want them to feel then they are severely tortured. They may be told that they are considering 3 of them to be executed next and the one who "disobeys" the most may be killed. They may be told if they fight that they will also kill another innocent person. We just don't know and as we can see, we cannot rule out any evil tactic. It may be all of the above and more plus a million times worse.

    I wish they were not fake but i do not think they are. They may be slightly edited so that the footage makes the point they want to to make them look even more fearsome (or whatever their sick goal is) but I do believe the men are dead.
     
  19. Sarahlou

    Sarahlou Member

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    I hate conspiracy theories, I really do. They make some people sound mentally ill. Not everything is a fix or a setup! Unfortunately these beheadings are very real.
     
  20. mom2six

    mom2six New Member

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    I'm completely on the fence about it. I'd like to know of those who are convinced they are real, who has actually viewed them?
     
  21. Wolf Dreamer

    Wolf Dreamer New Member

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    There may have been some staging in the first section of the videos, but there is nothing fake about the corpses shown at the end, and they are identifiable.

    It makes me really sad to see "famous" people, especially ones I thought were meant to be intelligent, writing ******** like this. The families are in enough agony as it is without having to read crap about how it's just faked. Remember, Alan Henning's wife was sent an audio recording of him pleading for his life and I would guess that has happened with all the hostages.

    There's a reason they don't show the process of decapitating the hostages, and that's because they are a generation who understand how media works. Video of someones head being sawn off (which is the reality, they saw through the trachea first so the victim will not die instantly) would not be good for the glossy image they're trying to project; they want people to watch the videos, and be terrified it will happen to them. It's not "beheading", just like they are not "Islamic". These people are murderers who are sawing the heads of people in an utterly barbaric way - beheading makes it sound swift, makes people think it's like Ned Stark in Game of Thrones. IT IS NOT. It is horrific. If you want to know how horrific, have a search for Ken Bigley. He was murdered the same way, by the terrorist group that has now evolved into ISIL. Or Daniel Pearl. But if you do decide to do that remember you can never unsee those scenes. Worse, you can never get the sounds out of your head. I know, I made that mistake.

    It's called terrorism for a reason - because they want to terrorise people. These people are slaughtering Syrians and Iraqis by the same methods, by crucifying them, by making them dig their own graves and then shooting them. And you think they would fake killing a few westerners? Not every country holds to the international conventions that say you should not pay ransoms; executing citizens of those countries keeps the pressure on the weak nations to keep coughing up. This is probably the richest terrorist group in history; that's the leaders motivation, not the religion they've bastardised to pretend their cause is legitimate. Greed and power.

    Regarding hostages seeming "calm", if you read accounts from released hostages you will know that they are being regularly tortured, forced to fight each other, made to take part in fake executions; eventually this just numbs a person. Terry Waite was on a UK radio station explaining how he had reached this state whilst he was being held hostage, that it was like his body just took over to protect him from reality.

    Wanna know one reason why ISIL are so savvy, and difficult to pin down? Because some scum traitor told the whole world how to evade surveillance. There is a man in Russia who has the blood of every executed hostage on his hands.

    Some articles, but it's also something that I'm "interested" in, if that's the right word, and considering a masters degree in.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...oting-suspect-was-Syria-hostage-torturer.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ie-reveals-French-war-reporter-held-ISIS.html
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/14/isis-beheading-videos-testing-west-resolve
    http://www.reuters.com/video/2014/06/25/how-did-isil-get-so-rich?videoId=316535926
    http://www.statesman.com/videos/news/how-did-isil-get-so-rich/vCgLSR/
     

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