Identified! AZ - Coconino Co, 'Valentine Sally' WhtFem 585UFAZ, 14-19, along I-40, Feb'82 -Carolyn Celeste Eaton

Discussion in 'Identified!' started by anthrobones, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Active Member

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    The artist's picture has a passing resemblance to Sophie Helen Woodman, missing runaway in Australia at age 13 in 1980. Sophie was slightly over the Doe's maximum height at age 13.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/47dfvic.html

    The location is highly unlikely, but made more likely I guess by the fact that Sophie had already shown a willingness and ability to pick up a travelling partner and travel a long distance with them... if at age 13 she wanted to take off to Queensland from her parent's home in Western Australia, then she may have jumped at a chance to get even further away?

    Also, if she had a tooth-ache she may have been not speaking much or clearly, and an accent might have been missed by witnesses.

    I always mention these Australian possibles for Does found in America, in part because if someone hasn't been identified after years of police work then the chances are something is up, the person wasn't anywhere near where they were "supposed" to be.
     


  2. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

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    I sent an email to the Cococino Sheriff regarding Carol Lubahn. I will post any response I get.
     
  3. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I spoke with Chuck Jones again.

    Regarding Norma Jean Halford, he checked the NCIC record on her, and found that there is no indication that she has DNA or dentals available, so as of right now, they can't compare anything. He said that he is going to check with Colorado authorities to see if there is anything else that they can compare.

    A few little bits of additional info that will help our search:

    Valentine Sally is in CODIS, so any possibles that are in CODIS would be presumed to be a rule-out. (BTW, on the Dana Point Jane Doe thread, Carol Lubahn's sister indicated that Carol's DNA was in CODIS.) Det. Jones will double-check that though. I asked if Valentine Sally had any signs of having given birth. He said that he didn't recall. He would have to check the coroner's report, which he didn't have handy.

    Secondly, he said that Valentine Sally was large-breasted. She wore a 36C bra. The rest of her body was very shapely and well proportioned. He said that she was very attractive, and was a woman that would have "turned heads". However, you would not have known that from what was left of her face. He does not know how the artist came up with the composite drawing, but the waitress who saw her in the diner said that the drawing was pretty accurate. As for the line across the chin, he can't see anything in the postmortem photos that would support the line on the chin shown in the facial reconstruction drawing. But he said that the artist studied the photos very closely and might have seen something.

    He says that there was nothing in Norma Jean's casefile that would raise any doubts. He was not concerned with the fact that her age was above the range. As he put it, age estimates are based on a bell-curve and there are always people at the ends of the bell-curve who are the exception to the rule.

    As for the circumstances of her disappearance, there is nothing about the circumstances that he would see as inconsistent. He said that it is not that unusual for someone who wants to escape from their current situation to stage their disappearance, and Norma could very well have done that. He spoke about a New Mexico case where a woman who disappeared on her lunch break from her job as a bank teller (not Pamela Neal from CO), and was finally located years later. She said that she decided that she wanted to get away from a bad marital situation.

    :eek:fftopic:
    BTW -- He says that he just recently got a CODIS hit on one of his 1995 cases, and they are in the process of double-checking the DNA comparison.

    I see two 1995 Coconino County AZ UID cases in DoeNet.
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/153umaz.html
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/137umaz.html
     
  4. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

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    any feedback Carl?
     
  5. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I last talked to him only a couple of weeks ago. I'll give him a little more time, lest I become a pest. :)
     
  6. Danaya

    Danaya Active Member

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    Has she been submitted or compared to this UID? It says she had a scar on her chin, and didn't Valentine Sally too?
     
  7. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I didn't submit her. The height is off by 4", which seems a bit too much, the scars and teeth don't match, and O'Donnell probably met with foul play in her immediate area. Valentine Sally had moles, but I don't see mention of a scar. So even though the expression matches I doubt they're the same person.
     
  8. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

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    received this email response to my inquiry about Carol Lubhan:

    xxxxx, thanks for taking the time to research the missing and the unidentified. Carol Jeanne Lubahn was eliminated as being Valentine Sally back in 1995 through dental comparison.



    Chuck Jones

    Cold Case Investigator

    Coconino County Sheriff’s Office
     
  9. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I just contacted Chuck Jones to suggest that he look at Elisabeth Martinson as a possible match to Valentine Sally.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/10404/0/

    There is no photo available of Elisabeth, but there was enough there that she might be worth a look.

    She had blonde hair, and just like Valentine Sally, was described as very pretty.
    Her height (5'5") matches.
    Her DLC is only about three weeks prior to Valentine Sally's discovery.

    The negatives are that her age (22) is a little above the range, and her hair is described as short. But nevertheless, he agrees that she might be worth a look.

    He also speculating that Valentine Sally might have been murdered by her father, and for obvious reasons, he would not report her missing. If he was a Trucker/single father, and driving her around the country, this case would never be solved unless a mother or sibling decided to come forward. If she had no siblings and there was no mother in her life, there would be nobody to come forward.

    Regarding Norma Jean Halford, he says that there is very little he can do with this because they have neither DNA nor dentals on her, and he can't make Colorado LE go out and hunt down the family members.
     
  10. Redwood146

    Redwood146 New Member

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    I wish there was some way of making Norma jean's Halford relatives aware of this possible match....
     
  11. Ambercat

    Ambercat Well-Known Member

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    I think "Seasons" may be a brand of jeans from Toronto, Canada. They are listed on the Canadian Apparel Federation's website, yet I have to be a member to read their profile.
     
  12. Silvia

    Silvia Member

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    Please tell me more, i.e. send a link, etc., about Norma Jean Halford. I don't see her on NamUs, but I'm in Colorado -- perhaps I can help. Thanks, Silvia Pettem
     
  13. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's the info on NJH from my previous post:

    And here's the Charley Project casefile for Norma:

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/halford_norma.html
     
  14. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Valentine Sally is in Namus now: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/9864

    Not much information there, but it does have photos of her clothing.

    Interestingly, the DNA page says there's no DNA because the body is missing. Huh?
     
  15. LunaticFringe

    LunaticFringe I know you're out there...

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  16. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Could be. It's a long shot -- and so little information on Gregory it's hard to say.
     
  17. Ambercat

    Ambercat Well-Known Member

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    Recently, her NamUs page was changed to say that her body was buried in Williams, AZ and her DNA is now with the Arizona DPS Northern Regional Crime Laboratory.
     
  18. Veidt

    Veidt New Member

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    This is probably way off but I found this girl: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/chambers_mindi.html . The age is close as well as their hair colour. The dates aren't completely the same assuming that perhaps the girl that was seen at the truck stop really was Jane Doe, unless Mindi went there for some reason months before her disappearance (the site says her relatives stated she had a history of running away). I'm not sure if I'm doing the conversion right but if I am then it's safe to say this is NOT a match as Mindi and our Doe would have very different heights.

    There are also a couple of other people I have found in Arizona with a similar hair colour and similar stats who disappeared in the 80s, such as this lady, but I don't think they're that close at all.
     
  19. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The dates are off on Mindy. Her Date LKA is after VS was found, And unless she bleached her hair, her hair color would be off too.

    The circumstances are spot-on though. I suspect that VS is probably the daughter of a trucker, who was a single-father, and brought her along on his trucking runs. He wouldn't have reported her missing for obvious reasons, and the mother is not around (or perhaps is dead), so she wouldn't be aware of her absence.

    Mindy was the daughter of a trucker whose mother was deceased (probably murdered by Mindy's father).
     
  20. Veidt

    Veidt New Member

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    Oh, ok, thanks. I forgot the date VS had been found and was just thinking about VS's last seen date, sorry! The Charley Project says she had sandy blonde hair so it would have been easy to lighten (even by something as simple as walking around in the sun) but as you say, the dates don't match at all.

    In both this case and the other one I commented on too, it's sort of weird to notice that there's missing people who would be spot on for unidentified people but for small details. Either the universe has a knack for eerie coincidences, or there may be more pattern-obsessed psychos out there than we imagine.:what:
     

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