AZ AZ - Daniel Robinson, 24, remote job site, Buckeye, 23 Jun 2021 #2

[SassySquatch]

48 ignition cycles after the crash. Why would he try to start the car as many times, or even at all, if it’s on it’s side? Does that make any sense to anyone?

“The report also showed that more than 40 ignition cycles were recorded following the crash, which could indicate attempts to restart the car or use of the electric system, the police department said, noting that it's not clear how many of those cycles occurred during tow recovery and when investigators downloaded data.”
New details emerge in the car crash related to Daniel Robinson's disappearance

 

[mlhenn]

48 ignition cycles after the crash. Why would he try to start the car as many times, or even at all, if it’s on it’s side? Does that make any sense to anyone?

Maybe. But you don’t need to turn the car on to do that, just the accessory mode. The roof does look broken out but also the driver door appears to be missing? Or the window is down?

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21080582/robinson-report-9-23-21.pdf

Daniel Robinson: New details emerge in the car crash related to the geologist's disappearance - CNN

To Note from Police Report:
(I apologize for all caps; I copied & pasted directly from report; BBM)
Pg 30
THE VEHICLE WAS FACING NORTH WEST.

THE VEHICLE HAD SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE AND APPEARED TO HAVE HAD A FRONT IMPACT WITH THE DIRT AND ROLLED BEFORE RESTING ON THE PASSENGER SIDE.

ONE PIECE OF THE JEEPS BLACK REMOVABLE ROOF WAS ON THE GROUND PARTIALLY WEDGED UNDER THE FRONT OF THE JEEP.

THE DRIVERS FRONT WINDOW WAS SHATTERED AND I LOCATED GLASS ON THE GROUND CONSISTENT WITH THE JEEP ROLLING ONE TIME.

THERE WAS ALSO SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE TO THE LOWER FRONT END AND DAMAGE TO THE TOP OF THE WINDSHIELD AND ROOF.

Pg 31
AFTER SOME FURTHER INVESTIGATION, DETECTIVES BELIEVE THAT
DANIEL'S VEHICLE LEFT THE DIRT ROADWAY WHERE IT ENDED SOUTH OF HIS JOB SITE NEAR AN OPEN DIRT AREA AND PROCEEDED UP THE HILL SIDE.

IT APPEARED THAT HE DROVE OVER
SEVERAL BUSHES BEFORE ENDING UP IN THE RAVINE. THE VEHICLE WAS STILL IN DRIVE WHEN IT WAS FOUND.


…

To Note from article linked above:
The report also showed that more than 40 ignition cycles were recorded following the crash, which could indicate attempts to restart the car or use of the electric system, the police department said, noting that it's not clear how many of those cycles occurred during tow recovery and when investigators downloaded data.

There was an 11-mile discrepancy between the crash data report and the displayed odometer reading, which "is not considered unusual," the report said.

"Similar discrepancies have been noted by Jeep dealership service departments and other crash reconstructionists," the report said.

 

[Kimkimba]

The thing that stands out to me is that the Jeep isn’t in park or neutral. The Jeep being in “drive” doesn’t make sense to me. Were the gears stuck? Did the towing company and police do most of the ignition cycles - maybe.

The 11 miles has always bothered me. Are there statistics regarding the extra mileage? What exactly causes that?

MOO

 

[Valiant]

The 11 miles has always bothered me. Are there statistics regarding the extra mileage? What exactly causes that?
MOO

In my experience, that means nothing. When I've compared the odometer reading displayed in a car with the reading that a scan tool pulls up from a computer within the car, I've seen such differences. This is just a guess, but my guess is there are redundancies built into the system with the displayed odometer using one source (probably the most accurate) and the second as a backup that's not quite as accurate.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I've forgotten some of the earlier details in this case -- such as whether tire tracks/footprints would be visible (some soil is too hard or rocky or sandy to retain imprints, especially after wind and rain).

What I'm wondering is how plausible is the idea that DR drove to some point, parked, left the vehicle unlocked and the keys visible or even in the ignition, left his clothing folded in a neat stack, and walked away, presumably having some sort of mental break, and then some time later (maybe days later -- did the jeep provide any time/date data about when the ignition cycles happened?) some yahoo came along, saw an abandoned vehicle with keys and took it for a joyride? And that the impact and crash and ignition attempts were all part of the joyride, not anything Daniel did?

Does that conflict with the data we know?

 

[Force Ten]

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21080582/robinson-report-9-23-21.pdf

Daniel Robinson: New details emerge in the car crash related to the geologist's disappearance - CNN

To Note from Police Report:
(I apologize for all caps; I copied & pasted directly from report; BBM)
Pg 30
THE VEHICLE WAS FACING NORTH WEST.

THE VEHICLE HAD SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE AND APPEARED TO HAVE HAD A FRONT IMPACT WITH THE DIRT AND ROLLED BEFORE RESTING ON THE PASSENGER SIDE.

ONE PIECE OF THE JEEPS BLACK REMOVABLE ROOF WAS ON THE GROUND PARTIALLY WEDGED UNDER THE FRONT OF THE JEEP.

THE DRIVERS FRONT WINDOW WAS SHATTERED AND I LOCATED GLASS ON THE GROUND CONSISTENT WITH THE JEEP ROLLING ONE TIME.

THERE WAS ALSO SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE TO THE LOWER FRONT END AND DAMAGE TO THE TOP OF THE WINDSHIELD AND ROOF.

Pg 31
AFTER SOME FURTHER INVESTIGATION, DETECTIVES BELIEVE THAT
DANIEL'S VEHICLE LEFT THE DIRT ROADWAY WHERE IT ENDED SOUTH OF HIS JOB SITE NEAR AN OPEN DIRT AREA AND PROCEEDED UP THE HILL SIDE.

IT APPEARED THAT HE DROVE OVER
SEVERAL BUSHES BEFORE ENDING UP IN THE RAVINE. THE VEHICLE WAS STILL IN DRIVE WHEN IT WAS FOUND.


…

To Note from article linked above:
The report also showed that more than 40 ignition cycles were recorded following the crash, which could indicate attempts to restart the car or use of the electric system, the police department said, noting that it's not clear how many of those cycles occurred during tow recovery and when investigators downloaded data.

There was an 11-mile discrepancy between the crash data report and the displayed odometer reading, which "is not considered unusual," the report said.

"Similar discrepancies have been noted by Jeep dealership service departments and other crash reconstructionists," the report said.

So by all appearances, he was not stuck in the vehicle.

 

[Force Ten]

I've forgotten some of the earlier details in this case -- such as whether tire tracks/footprints would be visible (some soil is too hard or rocky or sandy to retain imprints, especially after wind and rain).

What I'm wondering is how plausible is the idea that DR drove to some point, parked, left the vehicle unlocked and the keys visible or even in the ignition, left his clothing folded in a neat stack, and walked away, presumably having some sort of mental break, and then some time later (maybe days later -- did the jeep provide any time/date data about when the ignition cycles happened?) some yahoo came along, saw an abandoned vehicle with keys and took it for a joyride? And that the impact and crash and ignition attempts were all part of the joyride, not anything Daniel did?

Does that conflict with the data we know?

I have been wondering if someone, not DR, drove the vehicle out there as an attempt to conceal it. Or as a diversion to make it appear he was lost in the desert and it didn’t go exactly as planned with the rollover.

 

[PromPeace12]

I have been wondering if someone, not DR, drove the vehicle out there as an attempt to conceal it. Or as a diversion to make it appear he was lost in the desert and it didn’t go exactly as planned with the rollover.

Fingerprinting would've narrowed this down but, sounds like wasn't done? Or would too much time have passed between time DR went missing & time car was found, to get any fingerprints?

 

[PromPeace12]

Can't remember where I read this vehicle's box has capacity to record weight of the driver. Is that bogus? Would really be helpful if true.

 

[mlhenn]

I've forgotten some of the earlier details in this case -- such as whether tire tracks/footprints would be visible (some soil is too hard or rocky or sandy to retain imprints, especially after wind and rain).

What I'm wondering is how plausible is the idea that DR drove to some point, parked, left the vehicle unlocked and the keys visible or even in the ignition, left his clothing folded in a neat stack, and walked away, presumably having some sort of mental break, and then some time later (maybe days later -- did the jeep provide any time/date data about when the ignition cycles happened?) some yahoo came along, saw an abandoned vehicle with keys and took it for a joyride? And that the impact and crash and ignition attempts were all part of the joyride, not anything Daniel did?

Does that conflict with the data we know?

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21080582/robinson-report-9-23-21.pdf

Additional details when Daniel’s Jeep was found:
Pg 30-31

I OBSERVED A PAIR OF JEANS INSIDE OUT, TWO BROWN WORK TYPE BOOTS, A FADED ORANGE VEST WITH THE COMPANY LOGO, A TEE SHIRT AND TWO SOCKS WHICH WERE INSIDE OUT.

I COULD SEE THE OUTLINE OF WHAT APPEARED TO BE A WALLET IN THE POCKET OF THE JEANS.

I WALKED THE SAME PATH TO THE VEHICLE WHICH (redacted) HAD WALKED AND DID NOT OBSERVE ANY PERSONS INSIDE THE VEHICLE. IT WAS RELATIVELY CLEAN
ON THE OUTSIDE BUT THERE HAD BEEN 3 OR MORE BIG RAINS IN THIS AREA SINCE DANIEL WENT MISSING. THERE WAS EVIDENCE OF RAIN DAMAGE ON THE INSIDE OF THE JEEP AND A HARD HAT INSIDE FILLED WITH RAIN WATER.

I LOCATED DANIEL'S SAMSUNG GALAXY S10 CELL PHONE, THE VEHICLE AND APARTMENT KEYS, AND A BACKPACK WITH DANIEL'S WORK LAPTOP AND OTHER DOCUMENTS INSIDE. THERE WERE ALSO OTHER MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS INSIDE THE CAR LIKE CLOTHING, A BASKETBALL, UNOPENED WATER BOTTLES, AND OTHER ITEMS.

I DID NOT OBSERVE ANY BLOOD OR OTHER EVIDENCE OF AN INJURY DESPITE THE SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE TO THE VEHICLE.

I CHECKED THE AREA AND DID NOT OBSERVE ANY INDICATION THAT DANIEL SPENT A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME AT THE VEHICLE. THERE WERE NO EMPTY WATER BOTTLES OR OTHER ITEMS OTHER THAN DANIEL'S CLOTHING IN THE AREA.

THERE WERE NO TRACKS IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE VEHICLE THAT WEREN'T MADE BY THE CALLER OR DETECTIVES.

 

[TammyinVA]

The more I reflect on his disappearance the more I sadly believe he suffered a mental break or head injury and his remains were scattered and just haven't been found yet. The PI drummed up the it must be a crime scenario and got dad on board who can't acknowledge his son was going through something. I went looking for more cases where someone undressed after a car crash and left belongings behind and oddly there were quite a few with a quick search. Often the person is acting or driving erratically before the crash...sometimes it can be due to the crash although people often say they don't remember. Often there is no blood at scene even if there is a head injury . Something seeming suspicious doesn't automatically mean it was part of a crime.

As to the rancher...his account has changed. Just because he didn't see the jeep doesn't mean it wasn't there. The alternative is we are supposed to believe the airbags deployed around noon the day he went missing per crash data....then someone kept the jeep hidden....then drove it into a ravine risking injury and being spotted. Why not take it farther out into the desert if the plan was to hide it? Then that person just got out and left no trace and planted D's undressed clothing outside...and walked off. Then 2 to 3 days later the rancher spots it. Implausible IMO.

 

[Valiant]

Can't remember where I read this vehicle's box has capacity to record weight of the driver. Is that bogus? Would really be helpful if true.

In general, only passenger seats read weight, this is to disable the airbag when a small person is seated there.
Pure progressive performance | Polestar
I'm not aware of any other weight sensor in the seats.

 

[Force Ten]

The more I reflect on his disappearance the more I sadly believe he suffered a mental break or head injury and his remains were scattered and just haven't been found yet. The PI drummed up the it must be a crime scenario and got dad on board who can't acknowledge his son was going through something. I went looking for more cases where someone undressed after a car crash and left belongings behind and oddly there were quite a few with a quick search. Often the person is acting or driving erratically before the crash...sometimes it can be due to the crash although people often say they don't remember. Often there is no blood at scene even if there is a head injury . Something seeming suspicious doesn't automatically mean it was part of a crime.

As to the rancher...his account has changed. Just because he didn't see the jeep doesn't mean it wasn't there. The alternative is we are supposed to believe the airbags deployed around noon the day he went missing per crash data....then someone kept the jeep hidden....then drove it into a ravine risking injury and being spotted. Why not take it farther out into the desert if the plan was to hide it? Then that person just got out and left no trace and planted D's undressed clothing outside...and walked off. Then 2 to 3 days later the rancher spots it. Implausible IMO.

My first thought about the clothing is hypothermia but it was June. So that’s unlikely. But I couldn’t see someone else dumping the clothing in a pile. If that was the case, why? And if DR did that, why?

 

[PromPeace12]

My first thought about the clothing is hypothermia but it was June. So that’s unlikely. But I couldn’t see someone else dumping the clothing in a pile. If that was the case, why? And if DR did that, why?

If DR, maybe a mental or drug episode; maybe changed clothes; or maybe he was unconscious in the car, it rained & he woke up with wet clothes and boots.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

My first thought about the clothing is hypothermia but it was June. So that’s unlikely. But I couldn’t see someone else dumping the clothing in a pile. If that was the case, why? And if DR did that, why?

It's happened in other cases here. Those that I can think of seem to involve the possibility
of head injury (from vehicle accident or falling) and sometimes suspicion of exposure to various drugs. No judgment whatsoever; I just hope he's found soon. I don't think another person was involved - JMO.

 

[annpats]

I notice in the police report that both his jeans and socks were all located inside out.

Doesn't that speak of someone who was undressing in a hurry? Particularly his jeans. Like he couldn't wait to take them off, so just did it any which way.

And, to take his jeans off, he must have taken his boots off first.....and boots are the one thing you'd need on in that terrain.

How odd this case is. There are always more questions than answers.

 

[Laughing]

I notice in the police report that both his jeans and socks were all located inside out.

Doesn't that speak of someone who was undressing in a hurry? Particularly his jeans. Like he couldn't wait to take them off, so just did it any which way.

And, to take his jeans off, he must have taken his boots off first.....and boots are the one thing you'd need on in that terrain.

How odd this case is. There are always more questions than answers.

bbm

Just occurred to me -- if he climbed out of that Jeep onto an anthill he might have stripped fast.

@mlhenn @JJ Ray is this likely where the vehicle was found? (Haven't lived in Arizona since 1985.)

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[I wonder]

No underwear was found? Either he wasn’t wearing any, or he wandered off just in his underwear. It may mean nothing, but if he did usually wear underwear, it indicates that he may have been looking for someone to help. It’s a bit weird if someone approached you asking for help if only have underwear on, but, really, really weird if they are completely naked.

If he kept his underwear on, that could be significant in trying to determine his state of mind. It could indicate that he had the mental capacity to know he needed to find help and not to do this completely naked.

Lots of use of the word ‘underwear’, because in the UK, pants are underwear, so as I can’t say pants, I’m left with underwear.

 

[Force Ten]

No underwear was found? Either he wasn’t wearing any, or he wandered off just in his underwear. It may mean nothing, but if he did usually wear underwear, it indicates that he may have been looking for someone to help. It’s a bit weird if someone approached you asking for help if only have underwear on, but, really, really weird if they are completely naked.

If he kept his underwear on, that could be significant in trying to determine his state of mind. It could indicate that he had the mental capacity to know he needed to find help and not to do this completely naked.

Lots of use of the word ‘underwear’, because in the UK, pants are underwear, so as I can’t say pants, I’m left with underwear.

Do you mean underpants are underwear? Yes in the states we call them underwear. What you call pants you call trousers. Right?

 

[capitola51]

48 ignition cycles after the crash. Why would he try to start the car as many times, or even at all, if it’s on it’s side? Does that make any sense to anyone?

Great question. Police report (https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21080582/robinson-report-9-23-21.pdf) page 31 refers to the vehicle being left in drive when discovered. I checked out the Jeep Renegade and found that it has a keyless start/stop button on the dash, and requires the gear selector in park and the brake pedal pushed to start the engine (

)