AZ AZ - Daniel Robinson, 24, remote job site, Buckeye, 23 Jun 2021

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by weepingangel, Jul 8, 2021.

  1. o 0

    o 0 Former Member

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    No I am not "Will", I went on Sat, September 25th 2021

    I might know what you're saying about it being rolled onto its passenger side, in this picture it shows some kind of rollover marks on the driver side.
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    This picture shows a smashed front fender some scrapes on the driver side pillar without much damage to the rest of the side
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    post picture It also shows what looks like the passenger airbag deployed and the rear removable top/hatch circled in red....from what i learned you need a key to unlock the top to be able to take it out, there is one in front and one in the back.
     


  2. o 0

    o 0 Former Member

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    I have pictures I would like to post so they wont go to waste, people could get a sense or view of the remoteness of the location he was working at and the isolation of where the vehicle was found that raises a lot of questions.

    went in this gate Saturday Sept, 25th 2021 couple minutes after 8am and came out about 1:30pm that same gate covering about 14miles on my motorcycle and some walking(i do keep track of my miles since the bike is not equipped with a fuel gauge)

    [​IMG]

    My bike at Daniels worksite according to the info provided

    [​IMG]yes i am a proud owner ;]

    Daniels worksite
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    picture of one of two hills i seen that could get you to the location where the jeep was found, the other hill is right next to the electrical facility that is a little more friendly but did not venture in..[​IMG]
     
  3. o 0

    o 0 Former Member

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    Continued...not allowed to post more then 5images in a post.

    pictures right after climbing that hill looking north towards that electrical facility rotating west then south
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    [​IMG]You might notice the tracks of vehicles and a path that leads to another part of that ravine into a dead end facing the Hassayampa river and would have to turn back around to get out depending on your off road machine. That is the majority of trails you would be able to ride comfortably up in those ravines the rest is really sketchy in a jeep like Daniels and would have to drive over vegetation on some narrow ravines that would challenge the majority of inexperienced off road drivers.

    I also have video of my walks up and down the ravines, unfortunately i forgot the pin to screw down the go pro to the bike or i would of had video of the ride thru that area. I don't have a clue how to share video that are over 100mb up to 3gb.

    I am tired now, PLEASE let me know if i messed something up or missed something. TY
     
    TobyWong*, Denisedyann, NoSI and 20 others like this.
  4. Curiousobserver

    Curiousobserver Well-Known Member

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    Great observations- this airbag issue will need to be explained.

    Crash #1- where, when and what was the damage

    Crash #2- same

    When did the airbags deploy?, because as you said the fuel is shut off to limit fires. Somebody would have had to manually open the ACM and hit the switch (and known to do that, or googled it on their phone). That is a pretty rational thing to do and speaks to state of mind.
     
  5. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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  6. shadwell

    shadwell Well-Known Member

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    A still (presumably of DR’s actual vehicle) I pulled from a tv news report previously when looking at the wheel arch trim - looks to have standard road tyres fitted.

    A01D0DCF-4B6B-40F3-8F89-5FD950C400CC.jpeg
     
  7. JJ Ray

    JJ Ray Data Driven Empath

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    You are quickly getting up to speed!!!!
    The panel can be kicked out. As you can see even the the back side curtains deployed.

    Even from the first released picture the rancher took (that Mr. Robinson shared with the TV station in Columbia) the damage to the Driver side has been suspect. Mr. McGrath is confirming that when he says, "damage doesn't match the terrain" and the fact it rolled onto it's passenger side at the ravine. McGrath originally stated it looked "staged" after his analysis. I don't think that is an accurate way to describe. As he has stated he think there might be a crash prior to the car ending up in the ravine BUT it was still operable. So "dumping" and "staging" could still apply to Daniel himself as well as outsiders.
     
  8. JJ Ray

    JJ Ray Data Driven Empath

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    Crash #2 is I assume the ravine, if McGrath analysis holds. Buckeye PD is now saying they are bringing in a technical expert to re examine. (Yesterdays News conference reporting per local Channel 12
     
  9. shadwell

    shadwell Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it the EDR counts “ignition cycles,” adding one to the tally every time the box is powered up. This happens when the vehicle ignition is turned on (but the engine not necessarily started) and also each time the box is powered up in order to extract data. Each EDR report resulting from a collision or significant event includes the ignition cycle count.

    My understanding was that the total ignition cycle count at the time data was extracted by the PI was 46 greater than the ignition cycle count at the time of airbag deployment (initial incident), of which one or two might reasonably result from powering up for data extraction.
     
  10. dmac55

    dmac55 Well-Known Member

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  11. Trackergd

    Trackergd Verified SAR Manager and Tracker - Retired

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    Data recovered indicated the Jeep crashed, but then went another 11 miles before ending up in the ditch. Crashed with what? There's very little out there to crash into.
     
  12. JJ Ray

    JJ Ray Data Driven Empath

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    Crash 1 (unknown but presumably 11 miles from crash site, unless driven in circles after crash.
    Crash 2 ravine.
    Here is the original interview with McGrath on wreck analysis. Also attached Owners manual link. The fuel system can be reset by a sequence of turn signal manipulations.
    Private investigator says evidence doesn't add up for missing man | 12news.com
    https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/servicemanuals/jeep/2017-renegade.pdf
     
  13. JJ Ray

    JJ Ray Data Driven Empath

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    11 miles by Cactus Access road to Sun Valley puts him in front of Tartesso or Del Web Festival developments. However if crash that deployed airbags was at 30 MPH, that does not put him on Sun Valley Parkway (55-60 Mph). Going south and utilizing 315th Ave. puts him on Salome-Tonapah Rd. or in the middle of Tartesso subdivision. I took a quick drive through the main route in Tartesso and didn't notice anything. I have requested the June 23rd Incident report from Buckeye through public records law..
     
  14. JJ Ray

    JJ Ray Data Driven Empath

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    That was my understanding, not really lifted and not off road tires. I do think it is 4wd standard.
     
  15. Trackergd

    Trackergd Verified SAR Manager and Tracker - Retired

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    I am leaning towards misadventure with the potential for abduction. Daniel may have driven out into the desert, either due to depression over his love interest or to meet someone. Due to the damage and data, it appears to me that he either ran into one or more hostile individuals or happened upon an illegal activity and was chased with an individual trying to stop him by hitting the windshield with an object (high lift jack) which caused him to loose visual reference due to the windshield damage and subsequent drive into the ditch. The number of starts and airbag deployment may have been due to hitting various natural objects during the chase and having to restart the Jeep numerous times. Possibly the impacts were enough to trigger the fuel pump lockout and Daniel had to go through the process of resetting the lockout and restarting the Jeep. With a lack of remains being located despite extensive searching, Daniel may have been removed from the area by those that eventually succeeded in stopping him.
     
  16. shadwell

    shadwell Well-Known Member

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    This photo shows what appears to be extensive “stove in” damage to the driver’s side wing ahead of the door, including extensive paint loss, a gouge mark running the length of the wing and a point on the leading edge of the driver’s door where whatever caused the gouge mark has snagged it.

    1E32F121-6EE6-429E-A48E-4D525A03F9AF.jpeg 70476A62-5AF1-40E2-9CE9-97B7A87F2818.jpeg
     
  17. shadwell

    shadwell Well-Known Member

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    Looking at it in conjunction with the police photo, it appears that the damage continues along the driver’s side, in a curve below the door handles. From that (if correct) my impression would be that the driver’s side scraped alongside something very heavy/solid which had one or two short but (again very solid) solid projections and the vehicle rode up on the driver’s side as it moved forward in contact with the object.

    My first thought as to what the object that caused such damage might be would be something like a 3-4ft high very large concrete block with bolts sticking out of it - looking at what’s actually out there (as best I can online) I wonder if a pylon/transmission tower might be a contender.

    50281279-E136-411B-8883-035456F6E54D.jpeg 8B554CC3-5E2B-429B-9921-5D80976AE7B2.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  18. capitola51

    capitola51 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that EDR Overview paper. Yes, nothing that converts analog into digital can be 100% accurate, but the CANbus system does have a general accuracy of 96% or better. Fully agree with the takeaway about combining data from the system with actual observations from the scene - for instance if two vehicles doing 30mph crash head on the actual impact speed is 60mph although they will both have recorded 30 mph.
     
  19. shadwell

    shadwell Well-Known Member

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    Just to lob one in from “left field” - what’s your best estimate of the diameter of that well?
     
  20. capitola51

    capitola51 Well-Known Member

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    In 354 thank you for posting a couple of stills from a video, one showing a close up of the impact on the drivers side. I wonder what kind of object would make that sort of round dent in the glass in just that one place plus the two little nicks in the A pillar? Those two nicks were something as hard or harder than the pillar, and there is little or no collateral scratching around the oval shaped windshield impact. Plus we have this 'paint transfer' thing going on elsewhere in the thread, and others have questioned the damage to the drivers side as well.
    In your opinion would you consider that there is a possibility that some (not all) of the the Jeep drivers side damage could have resulted from a crash involving side swiping a truck coming from the opposite direction, and that isolated round dent in the windshield was made by the back of a truck mirror, and the two nicks made by part of a truck mirror mount?
    If a hypothetical truck was coming from the other direction at any speed the two speeds would be combined to create this level of damage if they met drivers side to drivers side.
    MOO
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021

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