AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

[FrayedKnot]

Just a quick question and if it is way out of left field and incorrect than I'm sorry but I keep hearing about fund raisers and donations and such and my question is what is the money for? And who gets it? I have been reading a lot of these cases over the years and usually money is one of the last subjects brought up and here it seems to be one of the most prevalent. Again, sorry if I am misinformed.

Excellent question, and one that has been bandied about on this thread quite a bit.

From what I garnered from the donation page, the monies donated and/or raised go to the family for their use. There does not seems to be any stipulation in place as to specifically what the funds may be used for.

I do believe it was stated that the sales of bracelets, tshirts and rosaries would be used to make more missing posters.

I have a few unanswered questions about the donations, myself.

 

[Prof]

With all due respect, how do we know that she was actually drunk? "Under the influence" is not the same as falling-down-drunk, and many people get arrested when they are barely over the legal limit, but still capable of driving responsibly. Obviously, they made at least one mistake or they would never have been stopped... but people also run red lights and stop signs when they're stone cold sober.
As far as putting a child at risk with even ONE drink inside you, I absolutely agree with you. NO ONE should get behind the wheel of a vehicle if their judgement has been slowed or altered with ANY substance. However, I know people who take OTC medications for allergies or prescriptions for pain, who get in a vehicle and drive all over the place, and never get stopped or involved in an accident. So to me, it's six of one and half a dozen of another.
I can't keep blaming someone for a DUI that happend five or six years ago, and using that to say it makes them capable of murder. Sorry, no disrespect intended, just stating my POV.

Thank you for this post. I agree.
Just to keep the facts straight, in a case where we have so very little facts, though, RC's DUI was more like 10 years ago in 2002, and was completely dismissed by the court. We cannot really know what occured by the court records.

 

[Ladylub]

I took a break for a bit from reading the post, it always seems if I stop follow a case for a couple of days they release new info. I hoped to come back yesterday to read some new information.

 

[Lark2]

Here's something to consider: Why would LE themselves state to the public very early on that they wanted the parents to do more media so that they (LE) could study their behaviour?

That one comment speaks volumes to me, and in my opinion, is evidence in and of itself that LE doesn't believe the parents. We all know that the FBI's Behavioural Analysis Unit was on the scene for weeks. IMO they were there for the parents, whose behaviour doesn't "fit" the profile.

Some here may be looking for physical "evidence" while discounting all of the behavioural evidence in this case, of which there is a lot. And IMO, it all points to the parents.

 

[Lark2]

I also found it interesting that it wasn't the parents who appeared on KGUN on Friday pushing the car wash, but rather two people associated with the Bring Isa Home command center. The male admitted he had never even met the parents and was involved because of an "uncle."

It's very convenient to send people out to do media for you who don't have to answer the hard questions. They can prattle on about where the car wash is, blah blah blah, and get the word out about the fundraising EVENT. But no questions, please, because we're just the messengers.

These parents are now actively avoiding MSM media and instead sending others out to talk about events, or, conversely, owhen they themselves do talk, it is only to alternative media that offers them a lot of control, like the blog radio program on which they appeared. There, they were able to bring a "spokesperson" into the interview who talked about the Wells Fargo fund, where people could donate, how to donate, etc. What MSM outlet is going to allow that - as Pieper said, basically allow the parents to put on an infomercial inside of a supposed interview???

Yuck.

 

[iSleuth]

I really must admit that I dont quite understand what you mean when you state ' a child's 'unintended death." I am not sure I have ever heard of an actual case where the child died accidentally or from natural causes and it was covered up by the parent or parents. If that is what you mean by 'unintended death.' Now of course I am aware of the CA defense which I do not believe for one nano second was an accident or an unintentional death of any kind.

Or are you saying the child was killed by the parent and they did not intend to kill the child? Sorry for not being very sure about what you are saying, iSleuth. If you are saying they abused the child and that resulted in death then I absolutely do not see how that is an 'unintended death.' Any actions taken by anyone that any reasonable person would know could cause grave bodily injuries and death is certainly not an 'unintended death', imo.

I missed the cases you are referring to in your post. What court cases involved a child's unintentional death and the evidence supported that the parent(s) hid the child's body to cover it up? tia

Maybe I need another cup of coffee this morning.

Me too!
Hypothetically
By unintended death I mean an accident. such as a fall, traumatic and fatal brain or spinal injury which occurred during something ( fill inthe blank__________ discipline?? etc) which the parent would not want exposed.

The only reason I can think of for the cover up... not calling an ambulance could be due to extenuating and incriminating circumstances...possible neglect or abuse ( sex or drugs or other) which would be damaging if it became public.


hypotheticaly: perhaps they are drs who have administered meds (illegally causing an overdose) would lose their licenses. Maybe despite all they failed to revive the child through lifesaving tactics- ego - so they take everything else into their own hands. Maybe they have custodial problems or issues with cps. maybe the perception of them is that they are pillars of the community but things are not as they appear and they really are negligent or abusive or other!

My heart goes out to all the types of missing victims here -One must accept the two scary trends are not the same!
The victims the best example CA MM LI and ;-( IC. ( who in this theory are doing this )though think- due to the Real Kidnappings happening everywhere- that they can sweep their personal tragedies under the rug of your * America's Dirty Little Secret...and LIE and hope that the world believes them.



eace:

 

[GutFeeling!]

nope, zilch...

there is a car wash today. BC posted it on her facebook too. wonder if the family will attend.

If they do attnd they are damned because they aren't out looking and if they don't they don't care about their daughter.

Lose/lose

 

[Lark2]

If they do attnd they are damned because they aren't out looking and if they don't they don't care about their daughter.

Lose/lose

IMO, it's only a lose/lose because of everything else that's happened (or not happened) up until now.

Logically speaking, it's not an automatic lose/lose when parents of a missing child do or don't attend a fundraiser. It's all within the context of any given case. These two parents have set off hinky meters from sea to shining sea.

 

[pieper4]

Perhaps a lil' OT, but worth the read in re: cartels and how they operate across the US. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/09/us/mexican-cartels-small-town-usa/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

 

[pieper4]

If they do attnd they are damned because they aren't out looking and if they don't they don't care about their daughter.

Lose/lose

But these parents have NOT been looking... anywhere. At least based on all available, local information... :/ No rallying cries (aside from more flyers and some merchandising for donations); no local media interactions pleading for the community's assistance; no nuthin'...

 

[panthera]

I live in Southern California and today as I was walking into my local grocery store I was upset because I could see a Missing Child flier on the door. Oh No, not again. The closer I got I realized it was a flier of little Isa! I was sad that there was a reminder right in front of me that she was still missing, BUT happy that somebody had posted fliers of a child that went missing 450 miles away!

Wonderful that her fliers are being posted in So. California! Hopefully there are many of them especially in large cities. Assuming she is still alive, one way to bring her home safely is to let the public in all areas adjacent to Arizona know she is still missing. Still believe, however, there should be more appearances in the media by her family.

MOO

 

[Azcrabcakes]

Here's something to consider: Why would LE themselves state to the public very early on that they wanted the parents to do more media so that they (LE) could study their behaviour?

That one comment speaks volumes to me, and in my opinion, is evidence in and of itself that LE doesn't believe the parents. We all know that the FBI's Behavioural Analysis Unit was on the scene for weeks. IMO they were there for the parents, whose behaviour doesn't "fit" the profile.

Some here may be looking for physical "evidence" while discounting all of the behavioural evidence in this case, of which there is a lot. And IMO, it all points to the parents.

If LE did say they wanted to observe the parent's behavior, maybe that is the reason we see little of them. Maybe the parents do't want to be observed, for fear of inaccurate interpretations. Just a thought. Why would LE announce that anyway? LE should have just silently observed them, unless their objective is to observe how they act, knowing they are being observed? Do guilty or innocent people overcompensate certain behaviors knowing they are being scrutinized? I honestly don't know, but I'll bet yes.

I am still on the fence. In my mind, I keep placing myself into the scenario, and wondering what I would do. I believe I would be so distraught, I would not want to be in the public, at all. I would want to be alone. That is how I believe I would react if it were my child who had gone missing.

I also don't think the parent's presence or not, by itself would alter my decision to help search, pass out flyers, etc.

Praying for a break in the case, and for Isa to come home! Soon!

 

[liz b.]

Wonderful that her fliers are being posted in So. California! Hopefully there are many of them especially in large cities. Assuming she is still alive, one way to bring her home safely is to let the public in all areas adjacent to Arizona know she is still missing. Still believe, however, there should be more appearances in the media by her family.

MOO

Yes, ITA... I wonder if there are any flyers in Spanish ? Any flyers in the various latino communities ? TIA if anyone knows...

 

[liz b.]

If they do attnd they are damned because they aren't out looking and if they don't they don't care about their daughter.

Lose/lose

I wonder if SC and RC really do care about what the public thinks,though ? Because it doesn't seem to stop them from soliciting money from the public ? Just a thought...and MOO

 

[Ransom]

Yes, ITA... I wonder if there are any flyers in Spanish ? Any flyers in the various latino communities ? TIA if anyone knows...

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/link/556204/pdf-isabel-celis-missing-poster-in-spanish

 

[Azcrabcakes]

Interesting to note that the flyer in Spanish says they have no information on what she was wearing at the time of her disappearance. They do not she has a missing top and bottom tooth.

 

[Ransom]

Interesting to note that the flyer in Spanish says they have no information on what she was wearing at the time of her disappearance. They do not she has a missing top and bottom tooth.

Yes it does:
dos dientes frontales uno superior y otro inferior

 

[pieper4]

There are so many "versions" of the fliers out and posted around Tucson. I see easily 8 different types daily in both Spanish and English. Some note the teeth missing, others don't. Some indicate clothing colors or braids, others don't. All different pictures. What disturbs me though is many of these various versions don't have the 88-Crime tip number emboldened across them. Some may have "call 911", which is fine, but others you really have to hunt to find the tip line number.

 

[Azcrabcakes]

Yes it does:
dos dientes frontales uno superior y otro inferior

OMG, I made a HUGE typo! I meant to say they note her missing teeth! I am so sorry. I have several sticky keys and when I don't proof my typing... well, you see what happens!:what: It was supposed to say "They DO note.... " not what I wrote. Sticky "e"!!!!!

Thank you for correcting that!

 

[Madeleine74]

One can surmise that little Isa isn't really "lost," and at least one parent knows where she is and they know because they placed/buried her somewhere. In this scenario, they're not looking because...she's not "lost" at all. As such they don't need or want people to find Isa. Notice their Tshirt tag line of "bring Isa home." It's not "find Isa" and it's not "MISSING, Isa."

Has it occurred to anyone that if they hadn't had to make a report to police they might have preferred to go on with their lives and deal with whatever happened to Isa that night, without public knowledge or police interference?

I personally don't think Isa is lost. I think the person that disposed of her body knows exactly where she is and is fervently hoping this whole nightmare goes away without an arrest. I happen to think that person or persons are mostly likely contained within the Celis nuclear family, and I also believe that's exactly what LE & the FBI think too.