Found Deceased AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 *Arrest* #27

Discussion in 'Trials' started by Greater Than, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    From listening to 8/16/19 testimony, the search warrant-- not authored by Detective Butcher, included books,notes, letters, photos, diagrams and drawings.

    Detective Butcher testified she searched box for illegal contraband, and noted a large number of photos - some attached to [legal] documents. She did not want to rummage the contents after looking for contraband and delivered the legal bag to a special master to look for items per search warrant.

    Essentially, Clements Defense attorney hammered Detective Butcher for not doing the special masters job (i.e., going through the box herself in jail cell and reading all the docs and/or items to seize under the warrant).

    IMO - Clements is again trying to use a technicality to aid his defense.

    ETA: Former Detective Butcher testimony to be continued -- she was not avail on 8/23. Other witnesses were expected to testify on 8/23.
     


  2. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    If Clements was involved in the kidnapping and murder of Isabel Celis, why on earth would he keep pictures of the Celis's house in a legal box in his jail cell when he can simply rip them into small pieces and flush them down the toilet that's in his cell?

    The Tucson Police wanted Clement's legal box searched so did this occur before or after they charged Clements with 2 counts of first degree murder?

    What do the pictures of Celis’s house that were allegedly found in Clements legal box have to do with the fraud and burglary charges Clements is facing in Maricopa County? Why didn’t they wait and discuss this issue when the murder trial begins in Pima County?
     
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  3. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    As to the bolded above, maybe he keeps the pix as momentos, that give him much pleasure?
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  4. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    Why were the burglary charges against Melissa Stark dropped? If she was was truly involved, why isn't she being prosecuted along with CC?
     
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  5. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    Did she make a deal, to testify against him?
     
  6. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    The only arrest report I found for Melissa Stark was for pandering, escort service and child abuse which occurred on 10/07/2015 in Tucson, AZ, which is in Pima County. CC is currently on trial in Maricopa County for the burglaries he committed there. If MS was involved in the burglaries, where is her arrest report? Was it posted on this thread? These charges can’t be dropped if she wasn’t arrested and no report was issued right?
     
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  7. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    They can be dropped whether she was arrested or not, or whether report issued or not. They have a lot of discretion to drop charges, for whatever reason they want.

    Sometimes they don't formally 'drop the charges' ---they just don't pursue them.

    If the prosecutors in one county were able to get important info from her about the suspect, they might have been able to get the other county to leave her be, for now anyway.
     
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  8. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    Now that the trial in MC has begun, hopefully we will find out what role she played if any in the burglaries so we aren't mislead by hearsay.

    I find it interesting that when CC was interviewed by PCSD in Maricopa County Jail on 8-15-17, 4 detectives were present, but when Tucson Police wanted CC's cell and legal box searched, they sent a female detective by herself.
     
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  9. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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    Well according to the Maricopa court site - Melissa Stark:

    #CR2017-005669
    Charges:
    Party Name ARSCode Description Crime Date Disposition Code Disposition Date

    Melissa Stark 13-2310A (F2) FRAUDULENT SCHEMES/ARTIFICES 10/28/2015
    Melissa Stark 13-1507A (F3) BURGLARY 2ND DEGREE 10/28/2015
    Melissa Stark 13-1802A1 (F3) THEFT-CONTROL PROPERTY 10/28/2015
    Melissa Stark 13-1507A (F3) BURGLARY 2ND DEGREE 11/11/2015


    Hearings:
    11/1/2019 13:30 Evidentiary Hearing
    11/1/2019 13:30 Evidentiary Hearing

    11/8/2019 9:00 Evidentiary Hearing
    11/8/2019 9:00 Evidentiary Hearing

    link: Criminal Court Case Information - Case History


    On the Docket part - which is too long to post here - it does NOT say charges were dismissed.

    and a different case # CR2018-000917 - with the same court dates as above

    Charges:

    Disposition Information
    Party Name ARSCode Description Crime Date Disposition Code Disposition Date

    Melissa Stark 13-2310A (F2) FRAUDULENT SCHEMES/ARTIFICES 4/6/2017

    link: Criminal Court Case Information - Case History
     
  10. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    Has Melissa Stark been incarcerated? I wonder where she was when she spoke with CC on the phone when he was?

    CC is in debt. I read he owes $20,000 for child support. How much do Melissa and Chris owe in fines to the Court? This is likely why they stole jewelry they could sell on the street. If anyone doesn’t pay their fines on time, things get worse and worse. Paying your fines on time is your top priority.

    This is likely why Christopher couldn’t afford to pay child support. Do inmates receive financial aid? Do they receive a welfare cheque? Was CC working in jail and receiving a paycheck?

    CC declared his love for his children and his innocence at the start of his interview with the 4 detectives who were fishing for information on Maribel Gonzales. I suppose LE question inmates in jail all the time but in prison, you can't trust anyone. It is an extremely hostile environment where boundaries are crossed all the time. The cops knew CC needed to have a lawyer present when they went to speak to him about MG's murder.

    I understand what compelled CC and Melissa to steal from the rich. How else can they pay stiff fines and survive? Apparently CC approached the Celis’s about the car sitting in their driveway so he was trying to make an honest living and actively seeking cars he could restore and make a good profit off of in order to
    pay his debts on time and stay afloat.

    I don’t see why he would kidnap and murder Isabel and MG and I sure am curious to know why CC allegedly knew where Isabel’s body was.

    A person commits burglary in the third degree by: Entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a nonresidential structure or in a fenced commercial or residential yard with the intent to commit any theft or any felony therein. ... Third degree burglary in Arizona is a class 4 felony.

    Home invasion burglary is a third degree felony, punishable by up to three years in prison and a fine up to $5,000. Burglary in the third degree is a class D felony, punishable by one to seven years in prison and a fine up to $5,000.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
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  11. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the pictures CC took of Celis's house all include the car parked in their driveway, the one he wanted to buy? I don't think this car was ever parked in the garage. I think CC took pictures of the car so he could include them in an ad on websites that sell used vehicles, ie. Craigslist.
     
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  12. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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    from the court site - all I see is this - and don't know if they were denied or not. It really doesn't say.

    2/23/2018 ROS – Release Order Supervised Release - Party (002) 2/26/2018
    NOTE: Release Order

    6/28/2018 MOT - Motion - Party (002) 6/29/2018
    NOTE: MOTION TO MODIFY CONDITIONS OF RELEASE - TO TRAVEL OUT OF STATE

    link: Criminal Court Case Information - Case History


    the rest of your questions - I can't help you.... :oops: don't really know.
     
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  13. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    It a well known fact serial predators love to keep mementoes of their evil deeds.

    That way they can relive what they have done to their defenseless victims.

    Jmho
     
  14. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    Good morning everyone!

    I will never understand anyone who steals from others. It doesn't matter if the victims were rich or poor. It's still reprehensible. They were victims of this revolting worthless lawless duo.

    Has it been verified the robberies were done to pay their court fines? I highly doubt it. Imo, they robbed from victims because they felt entitled to take what wasn't theirs in the first place just like all others do. I find them both replusive leeches, and dregs of society.

    Other than child pedophile predators/murderers, I detest all thieves.

    How was he going to pay for the Celis vehicle if it all went to fines?

    Imo, he wasn't, and never planned to buy it either. Imo, it was just an evil ploy he used to have an excuse to come to his intended targeted victim's home. Many other pedophile predators have used their own excuses to be near their intended targets.

    Imo, Once the FBIs investigation is completed I think they are going to find out CC has used this same ruse before. Where are the two other bodies he said is also buried in the vast desert?

    Imo, there is much more to be revealed about this serial pedophile/murderer/robber, imo.

    Imo, he has been doing this since he was a teen. The more he got away with it or got off on some technicality it emboldened this vile monster.

    I'm not the least bit surprised he found a partner to team up with him to target innocent victims in the robberies.

    ID has so many male/female tag teams who commit violent crimes they have an entire series devoted to those cases. Moral individuals wouldn't be in the presence of a vile pedophile sex offender, much less become partners in crime with them

    It sickens me this woman seems to be the same one who knew his dark depraved secrets that allowed him walk around in society to harm more children.

    If this is not the same wiman who finally came forward to the FBI, then I apologize in advance.

    How anyone can know for so long that beautiful Isas possessions were buried in her yard, and yet keep mum about it, I will never comprehend. Fgs, wasn't she a mother herself?

    No doubt if she is the same partner in crime with the robberies the state will probably do a plea deal with her in exchange for testifying for the state.

    I find that revolting too, but I know sometimes it's a necessary evil in order to get justice for victims.

    I'm glad to see the detective who searched his cell got a special master involved. A special master was also involved in the OJ case when a knife was found at the crime scene.

    Imo, no matter what happens in the robbery cases, I believe the DA/LE will amass more than sufficient compelling evidence to prove both murder cases BARD.

    God be with the Celis, and Gonzalez families as they start their long journey to see justice is served for their beautiful daughters.

    Jmho
     
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  15. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    In the federal system, supervised release (sometimes also called special or mandatory parole) is a preliminary period of freedom for recently released prisoners. It's imposed at the time of sentencing, and is for the prisoner to serve after completing his or her prison sentence.

    Supervised release is a
    sentencing option adopted in addition to the sentence of imprisonment given by the state, provincial or federal court to the guilty. ... A supervised release is given in addition to the time spent in prison. The offender released on supervised release is supervised by the U.S. probation officers.
     
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  16. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think CC was ever charged with domestic violence or physical assault.
    I think his records are clear of these types of charges.

    CC doesn’t have a violent history. When he broke into peoples’ houses, he got them out of there before he entered so no one was hurt. He was never charged for possession of an illegal weapon and he probably doesn’t own a firearm.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  17. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    One doesn't need firearm to subdue a young girl.

    As for his burglaries---you say he got out of there fast so no one was hurt. Maybe he was a coward, and didn't want to face angry adults. But wasn't worried about others being hurt.

    He knew where the 2 young girls were buried. I think he put them there himself. JMO
     
  18. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    It’s a fact that CC and MS did not cause any of their victims bodily harm when they illegally entered their homes and stole from them.
     
  19. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't have a violent criminal history?

    I thought he was even a sex offender in his teens against a minor child?

    Wasn't he a registered sex offender? That is a very violent history!

    Imoo
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  20. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I’m specifically speaking about domestic violence related incidents that occurred since then. It's a fact that CC hasn’t been charged with a domestic related offence or assaulting anyone over the past ten years and after he was convicted for that offence and paid the cost. He isn’t beating his girlfriends, children, or cellmates for that matter. He doesn't appear to be a bully who physically and verbally assaults others if he doesn't get his way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019

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